Which of these eschatology houses will get washed away suddenly?

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
BACKGROUND:

GREEK WORDS FOUND IN THE VERSES IN QUESTION:

05035
ταχύ tachý, takh-oo'
neuter singular of 5036 (as adverb);
shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:--lightly, quickly.

05036
ταχύς tachýs, takh-oos'
of uncertain affinity;
fleet, i.e. (figuratively) prompt or ready:--swift.

05030
ταχέως tachéōs, takh-eh'-oce
adverb from 5036;
briefly, i.e. (in time) speedily, or (in manner) rapidly:--hastily, quickly, shortly, soon, suddenly.

EXAMPLES

Mark 9:39
39 But Jesus said, "Do not stop him, because no one who does a miracle in my name will be able soon afterward [5035 tachý] to say anything bad about me.

Matthew 28
7 And go quickly [5035 tachý] and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead. And, behold, He goes before you into Galilee. There you shall see Him. Lo, I have told you.
8 And they quickly departed from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.

1 Tmothy 5:22
22 Do not lay hands quickly [5030 tachéōs] on anyone, neither be partaker of the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

Luke 14:21
21 And coming up that servant reported these things to his lord. And the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, Go out quickly [5030 tachéōs] into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and the maimed, and the lame and the blind.

James 1
19 Therefore, my beloved brothers, let every man be swift [5036 tachýs] to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath.

Revelation 22
12 And behold, I am coming quickly [swiftly, suddenly, and without delay - 5035 tachý], and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.

ASSUMPTIONS AND DOCTRINES

Does it mean "soon" when used by Jesus in the Revelation? Or does it mean swiftly and without delay, and suddenly?

In my opinion, we can only decide it means "soon" by making that assumption, and once we assume it means "soon", we have to assume how soon.

HOUSES BUILT ON CLAY

Whether we use A.D 70 or any other historic occurrence to decide how soon, or if we decide to assume a time or a date for the Lord's return (whether past or future), then there is a very high chance that this decision will form a doctrine that will prove to be a foundation of clay upon which to build a house, and when Christ comes suddenly, truth will come like a flood and destroy our house.

(Actually, in Christianity there are quite a few houses built on clay, sand castles built on the sea's side of the high tide mark), but whether or not these are fortified by what looks to the human eye like the impenetrable walls of theology, creeds and anathemas, they are just castles of sand, and will get washed away suddenly.

Therefore, bearing in mind what we may be doing to our own minds when we answer these questions below,

When Jesus said "I am coming quickly [swiftly, suddenly, and without delay - 5035 tachý], and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.",

1. Did he mean "soon"; and if so,
2. How soon?
3, Or did He mean, "suddenly, and swiftly, and (when the time comes), without delay"?
 
Last edited:

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A BIBLICAL APOCALYPSE USES SYMBOLISM THAT IS PRODUCED BY POETRY EMPLOYING SIMILE AND METAPHOR, MIXED WITH HYPERBOLE.

The truth is the light (John 14:6).
pure and righteous,
is the color white​
(Revelation 1:14; Revelation 2:17; Revelation 3:5; Revelation 3:18; Revelation 4:4; Revelation 6:11; Revelation 7:9; Revelation 7:13; Revelation 7:14; Revelation 14:14; Revelation 15:6; Revelation 19:8; Revelation 19:11; Revelation 19:14; Revelation 6:2; Revelation 20:11).

The sun and moon,
our rulers of might
(Genesis 1:16; Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1).

When summer is at is height,
the sun is shining bright,
it's reflection, the moon,
comes into sight,
and wise and faithful saints,
like the stars, are shining bright
(Genesis 22:17; Daniel 12:3).

Being in the heavens,
they shine in the earth
(Colossians 3:1-4; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6),
and as the abundance of the sea,
to blessings they give birth
(Isaiah 60:5).

The saints fight from heaven;
the stars in their courses fight
(Judges 4:6-7; Judges 5:18-20),
the blood of Christ is their might
(Revelation 12:11).

But when calamity comes,
and the stars fall from the heavens
(Daniel 8:9-10; Revelation 6:12-13),
they cease to provide light,

the sun becomes darkened,
the moon too, loses her might,
she reflects not the sun's light.

The moon turns the color of blood,
the sun is hiding its face
(Matthew 24:29),
the social and political order is being removed,
the earth is being moved out of its place,
the heavens and earth are shaking
(Isaiah 13:9-13; Revelation 6:12-17).
The kingdom of wickedness is being defeated.
(Revelation 19:11-21)
One is victorious,
on the throne of God He is seated
(Revelation 21:1-22:21).​

FOR EXAMPLE:

Rivers and fountains of waters.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: atpollard
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,580
7,776
63
Martinez
✟894,303.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
BACKGROUND:

GREEK WORDS FOUND IN THE VERSES IN QUESTION:

05035
ταχύ tachý, takh-oo'
neuter singular of 5036 (as adverb);
shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:--lightly, quickly.

05036
ταχύς tachýs, takh-oos'
of uncertain affinity;
fleet, i.e. (figuratively) prompt or ready:--swift.

05030
ταχέως tachéōs, takh-eh'-oce
adverb from 5036;
briefly, i.e. (in time) speedily, or (in manner) rapidly:--hastily, quickly, shortly, soon, suddenly.

EXAMPLES

Mark 9:39
39 But Jesus said, "Do not stop him, because no one who does a miracle in my name will be able soon afterward [5035 tachý] to say anything bad about me.

Matthew 28
7 And go quickly [5035 tachý] and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead. And, behold, He goes before you into Galilee. There you shall see Him. Lo, I have told you.
8 And they quickly departed from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.

1 Tmothy 5:22
22 Do not lay hands quickly [5030 tachéōs] on anyone, neither be partaker of the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

Luke 14:21
21 And coming up that servant reported these things to his lord. And the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, Go out quickly [5030 tachéōs] into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and the maimed, and the lame and the blind.

James 1
19 Therefore, my beloved brothers, let every man be swift [5036 tachýs] to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath.

Revelation 22
12 And behold, I am coming quickly [swiftly, suddenly, and without delay - 5035 tachý], and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.

ASSUMPTIONS AND DOCTRINES

Does it mean "soon" when used by Jesus in the Revelation? Or does it mean swiftly and without delay, and suddenly?

In my opinion, we can only decide it means "soon" by making that assumption, and once we assume it means "soon", we have to assume how soon.

HOUSES BUILT ON CLAY

Whether we use A.D 70 or any other historic occurrence to decide how soon, or if we decide to assume a time or a date for the Lord's return (whether past or future), then there is a very high chance that this decision will form a doctrine that will prove to be a foundation of clay upon which to build a house, and when Christ comes suddenly, truth will come like a flood and destroy our house.

(Actually, in Christianity there are quite a few houses built on clay, sand castles built on the sea's side of the high tide mark), but whether or not these are fortified by what looks to the human eye like the impenetrable walls of theology, creeds and anathemas, they are just castles of sand, and will get washed away suddenly.

Therefore, bearing in mind what we may be doing to our own minds when we answer these questions below,

When Jesus said "I am coming quickly [swiftly, suddenly, and without delay - 5035 tachý], and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.",

1. Did he mean "soon"; and if so,
2. How soon?
3, Or did He mean, "suddenly, and swiftly, and (when the time comes), without delay"?
"In the twinkling of an eye" and no one knows when.
Blessings
 
  • Like
Reactions: atpollard
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When Jesus said "I am coming quickly [swiftly, suddenly, and without delay - 5035 tachý], and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.",

1. Did he mean "soon"; and if so,
2. How soon?
3, Or did He mean, "suddenly, and swiftly, and (when the time comes), without delay"?

I believe it means 3 myself. This then raises another question. What does it mean once He has arrived suddenly? Does it mean every single event that is to take place once He arrives suddenly, these are suddenly over with as suddenly as they started? Don't some views have all of these events that have to take place once He has arrived, only involving 24 hours or less?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zao is life
Upvote 0

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I believe it means 3 myself. This then raises another question. What does it mean once He has arrived suddenly? Does it mean every single event that is to take place once He arrives suddenly, these are suddenly over with as suddenly as they started? Don't some views have all of these events that have to take place once He has arrived, only involving 24 hours or less?
Yes, there are a number of views, and I fall into the camp of those who believe that Christ will return at the close of a literal 42 months during which the kingdom of wickedness has held sway in the world, and this is symbolized by the "voices, thunderings and lightnings" read about in the 7th trumpet and 7th bowl of wrath.

I'm very reluctant to either assign to this Day of Christ a length of time, or limit its length of time. I don't find it expressly mentioned, so I'd rather avoid guess-work and conjecture.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

trophy33

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
8,856
3,553
N/A
✟145,364.00
Country
Czech Republic
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

"...the time is near."
Rev 1:3

"…God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Behold, I am coming quickly:"
Rev 22:7

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near. "
Rev 22:10

"And, behold, I come quickly;"
Rev 22:12

"...Surely I am coming quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."
Rev 22:20

1. Did he mean "soon"?
- yes, obviously.
2. How soon?
- depends on how we date the book of Revelation. If the book was written during the reign of Nero, then it was written between 54-68 AD. If the book was written during the reign of Galba, then it was written 68-69 AD.
3, Or did He mean, "suddenly, and swiftly, and (when the time comes), without delay"?
- its technically possible to see it in some verses, but the context is about time ("the time is near")
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
BACKGROUND:

GREEK WORDS FOUND IN THE VERSES IN QUESTION:

05035
ταχύ tachý, takh-oo'
neuter singular of 5036 (as adverb);
shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:--lightly, quickly.

05036
ταχύς tachýs, takh-oos'
of uncertain affinity;
fleet, i.e. (figuratively) prompt or ready:--swift.

05030
ταχέως tachéōs, takh-eh'-oce
adverb from 5036;
briefly, i.e. (in time) speedily, or (in manner) rapidly:--hastily, quickly, shortly, soon, suddenly.

EXAMPLES

Mark 9:39
39 But Jesus said, "Do not stop him, because no one who does a miracle in my name will be able soon afterward [5035 tachý] to say anything bad about me.

Matthew 28
7 And go quickly [5035 tachý] and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead. And, behold, He goes before you into Galilee. There you shall see Him. Lo, I have told you.
8 And they quickly departed from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word.

1 Tmothy 5:22
22 Do not lay hands quickly [5030 tachéōs] on anyone, neither be partaker of the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

Luke 14:21
21 And coming up that servant reported these things to his lord. And the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, Go out quickly [5030 tachéōs] into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and the maimed, and the lame and the blind.

James 1
19 Therefore, my beloved brothers, let every man be swift [5036 tachýs] to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath.

Revelation 22
12 And behold, I am coming quickly [swiftly, suddenly, and without delay - 5035 tachý], and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.

ASSUMPTIONS AND DOCTRINES

Does it mean "soon" when used by Jesus in the Revelation? Or does it mean swiftly and without delay, and suddenly?

In my opinion, we can only decide it means "soon" by making that assumption, and once we assume it means "soon", we have to assume how soon.

HOUSES BUILT ON CLAY

Whether we use A.D 70 or any other historic occurrence to decide how soon, or if we decide to assume a time or a date for the Lord's return (whether past or future), then there is a very high chance that this decision will form a doctrine that will prove to be a foundation of clay upon which to build a house, and when Christ comes suddenly, truth will come like a flood and destroy our house.

(Actually, in Christianity there are quite a few houses built on clay, sand castles built on the sea's side of the high tide mark), but whether or not these are fortified by what looks to the human eye like the impenetrable walls of theology, creeds and anathemas, they are just castles of sand, and will get washed away suddenly.

Therefore, bearing in mind what we may be doing to our own minds when we answer these questions below,

When Jesus said "I am coming quickly [swiftly, suddenly, and without delay - 5035 tachý], and My reward is with Me, to give to each according as his work is.",

1. Did he mean "soon"; and if so,
2. How soon?
3, Or did He mean, "suddenly, and swiftly, and (when the time comes), without delay"?

I would say #3 is a reasonable understanding because when it is used adverbially, it describes the action. When Christ does come, the action of his coming is quick/without delay.

5035
taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), withoutunnecessary delay;

So what action is being described in revelation 22:7?

Revelation 22:7 Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.”

Christ’s “coming” is being described as “quick” or “without delay”.

Now, what is the verb tense of “coming” in vs 7? It is present tense. Christ stated “I am presently coming swiftly/without delay”.

Christ did NOT say “ I WILL come (future tense) swiftly/without delay”. Therefore, Christ was presently coming swiftly/without delay in the first century.

So, does this adverb of “swift/without delay” mean it’s literal definition or must it be spiritualized to mean its opposite?











 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would say #3 is a reasonable understanding because when it is used adverbially, it describes the action. When Christ does come, the action of his coming is quick/without delay.

5035
taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), withoutunnecessary delay;

So what action is being described in revelation 22:7?

Revelation 22:7 Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.”

Christ’s “coming” is being described as “quick” or “without delay”.

Now, what is the verb tense of “coming” in vs 7? It is present tense. Christ stated “I am presently coming swiftly/without delay”.

Christ did NOT say “ I WILL come (future tense) swiftly/without delay”. Therefore, Christ was presently coming swiftly/without delay in the first century.

So, is this adverb of “swift/without delay” mean it’s literal definition or must it be spiritualized to mean its opposite?
That's a good point, but since the verb is in the present-tense, that brings up the question, is He always coming swiftly and without delay, has He always been coming swiftly and without delay, will His coming continue to be swiftly and without delay, and and is He still coming swiftly and without delay?

The present-tense of the verb still does not afford us liberty to give His coming a date, IMO.
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would say #3 is a reasonable understanding because when it is used adverbially, it describes the action. When Christ does come, the action of his coming is quick/without delay.

5035
taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), withoutunnecessary delay;

So what action is being described in revelation 22:7?

Revelation 22:7 Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.”

Christ’s “coming” is being described as “quick” or “without delay”.

Now, what is the verb tense of “coming” in vs 7? It is present tense. Christ stated “I am presently coming swiftly/without delay”.

Christ did NOT say “ I WILL come (future tense) swiftly/without delay”. Therefore, Christ was presently coming swiftly/without delay in the first century.

So, is this adverb of “swift/without delay” mean it’s literal definition or must it be spiritualized to mean its opposite?


Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


IMO, it seems far more reasonable to interpret verse 7 in light of verse 12. Is verse 12 something He does more than once? Is verse 12 something He has already done? Both Preterists and Premils, IMO, verse 12 is problematic for these views.

Let's assume Premil. If verse 12 is something He does when He returns, thus before the thousand years begin, is it also something He does again after the thousand years expires? As to these rewards, the text indicates His reward is already with Him when He is arriving, to give every man according as his work shall be. I would think it is meaning works pertaining to this present age. And since the text says every man rather than some men, I take this to mean both the saved and the lost. There are Premils who think it is only meaning rewards concerning the saved, though. I disagree since the text says every man, and that not every man is saved.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Zao is life
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

"...the time is near."
Rev 1:3

"…God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Behold, I am coming quickly:"
Rev 22:7

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near. "
Rev 22:10

"And, behold, I come quickly;"
Rev 22:12

"...Surely I am coming quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."
Rev 22:20


- yes, obviously.

- depends on how we date the book of Revelation. If the book was written during the reign of Nero, then it was written between 54-68 AD. If the book was written during the reign of Galba, then it was written 68-69 AD.

- its technically possible to see it in some verses, but the context is about time ("the time is near")
Well I don't believe the Preterist claim regarding the date of the Revelation has conclusive evidence. The A.D 95 date seems just as plausible to me. All dates lack conclusive evidence, IMO.

BUT ...

Thanks to your post, I've checked Revelation 1:1 & 3 and the meaning of the words, and which other verses in the New Testament they appear in (to check the context).

In Revelation 1:1 the word is [5034 táchos] and again it means swiftly, speedily (not necessarily "soon").

BUT ..

Revelation 1:3 uses the word [01451 engýs], which every time it is used in the New Testament, means "near" or "at hand", such as in the following verses:

John 2
13 And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

Matthew 26
17 And on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, Where do You desire that we prepare for You to eat the Passover?
18 And He said, Go into the city to such a man, and say to him, The Master said, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.
19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them. And they made the passover ready.
20 And when evening had come, He sat down with the Twelve.

It's the same word used in Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:10:

Revelation 1
3 Blessed is the one who reads and hears the words of this prophecy, and the ones keeping the things written in it, for the time is near.

Revelation 22
10 And he said to me, Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this Book; for the time is at hand.

.. and there is also not one New Testament verse using the same word, where the word does not clearly mean "near", as in "at hand", as in "very near":

Matthew 24:32-33; Matthew 26:18; Mark 13:28-29; Luke 19:11; Luke 21:30-31; John 2:13; John 3:23; John 6:4' John 6:19; John 6:23; John 7:2; John 11:18; John 11:54; John 11:55; John 19:20; John 19:42.

In plain English, it means "The time is just around the corner".

This post is going to end now. I'm just stating fact like in "No Comment TV", and I'm learning as I go along.
 
Upvote 0

trophy33

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
8,856
3,553
N/A
✟145,364.00
Country
Czech Republic
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well I don't believe the Preterist claim regarding the date of the Revelation has conclusive evidence. The A.D 95 date seems just as plausible to me. All dates lack conclusive evidence, IMO.

BUT ...

Thanks to your post, I've checked Revelation 1:1 & 3 and the meaning of the words, and which other verses in the New Testament they appear in (to check the context).

In Revelation 1:1 the word is [5034 táchos] and again it means swiftly, speedily (not necessarily "soon").

BUT ..

Revelation 1:3 uses the word [01451 engýs], which every time it is used in the New Testament, means "near" or "at hand", such as in the following verses:

John 2
13 And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

Matthew 26
17 And on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, Where do You desire that we prepare for You to eat the Passover?
18 And He said, Go into the city to such a man, and say to him, The Master said, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.
19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them. And they made the passover ready.
20 And when evening had come, He sat down with the Twelve.

It's the same word used in Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:10:

Revelation 1
3 Blessed is the one who reads and hears the words of this prophecy, and the ones keeping the things written in it, for the time is near.

Revelation 22
10 And he said to me, Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this Book; for the time is at hand.

.. and there is also not one New Testament verse using the same word, where the word does not clearly mean "near", as in "at hand", as in "very near":

Matthew 24:32-33; Matthew 26:18; Mark 13:28-29; Luke 19:11; Luke 21:30-31; John 2:13; John 3:23; John 6:4' John 6:19; John 6:23; John 7:2; John 11:18; John 11:54; John 11:55; John 19:20; John 19:42.

In plain English, it means "The time is just around the corner".

This post is going to end now. I'm just stating fact like in "No Comment TV".

Yes, the book of Revelation says that the time is near, which is a synonym to "it will happen soon".
 
  • Useful
Reactions: Zao is life
Upvote 0

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


IMO, it seems far more reasonable to interpret verse 7 in light of verse 12. Is verse 12 something He does more than once? Is verse 12 something He has already done? Both Preterists and Premils, IMO, verse 12 is problematic for these views.

Let's assume Premil. If verse 12 is something He does when He returns, thus before the thousand years begin, is it also something He does again after the thousand years expires? As to these rewards, the text indicates His reward is already with Him when He is arriving, to give every man according as his work shall be. I would think it is meaning works pertaining to this present age. And since the text says every man rather than some men, I take this to mean both the saved and the lost. There are Premils who think it is only meaning rewards concerning the saved, though. I disagree since the text says every man, and that not every man is saved.
Check my post #11. I really would like to hear your input on that information.
 
Upvote 0

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Not sure if it is plausible, because I do not recall anything ground changing happening soon after 95 AD.
Personally I won't use historical events to date the Revelation, or the return of Christ. I must derive it from what the Revelation and other New Testament prophecy says, or not at all. We could just as well use the Ottoman-Turk conquering of Constantinople if we want to use historical events.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The information that what @myst33 's post caused me to discover when I researched these words:

I've checked Revelation 1:1 & 3 and the meaning of the words, and which other verses in the New Testament they appear in (to check the context).

In Revelation 1:1 the word is [5034 táchos] and again it means swiftly, speedily (not necessarily "soon").

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

BUT ..


Revelation 1:3 uses the word [01451 engýs], which every time it is used in the New Testament, means "near" or "at hand", such as in the following verses:

John 2
13 And the Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

Matthew 26
17 And on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, Where do You desire that we prepare for You to eat the Passover?
18 And He said, Go into the city to such a man, and say to him, The Master said, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples.
19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them. And they made the passover ready.
20 And when evening had come, He sat down with the Twelve.

It's the same word used in Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:10:

Revelation 1
3 Blessed is the one who reads and hears the words of this prophecy, and the ones keeping the things written in it, for the time is near.

Revelation 22
10 And he said to me, Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this Book; for the time is at hand.

.. and there is also not one New Testament verse using the same word, where the word does not clearly mean "near", as in "at hand", as in "very near":

Matthew 24:32-33; Matthew 26:18; Mark 13:28-29; Luke 19:11; Luke 21:30-31; John 2:13; John 3:23; John 6:4' John 6:19; John 6:23; John 7:2; John 11:18; John 11:54; John 11:55; John 19:20; John 19:42.

In plain English, it means "The time is just around the corner".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copy @DavidPT

This word in the verse below, translated as "hereafter" in the KJV and most English language version, means "with" (as in accompanying).

It does not mean "after this" or "hereafter" in any of the (many) New Testament verses I've checked so far (but I will continue to go through that long list tomorrow). I have to go now:

Revelation 4
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter[03326 μετά metá]

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with [03326 μετά metá] the beast.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Revelation 22
10 And he said to me, Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this Book; for the time is at hand.

.. and there is also not one New Testament verse using the same word, where the word does not clearly mean "near", as in "at hand", as in "very near":

As to this verse it is perfectly reasonable why it's not meaning suddenly. As for the time is at hand, why can't that involve a long period of time over all? If someone said in the end of the first thousand years of AD that the time is at hand for the next millennium, none of that can involve the entire 2nd millennium but must only involve a few short days or a few short years of the 2nd millennium?
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Personally I won't use historical events to date the Revelation, or the return of Christ. I must derive it from what the Revelation and other New Testament prophecy says, or not at all. We could just as well use the Ottoman-Turk conquering of Constantinople if we want to use historical events.


It doesn't matter when Revelation was written. Even if it was written prior to 70 AD, this alone does not prove events recorded in Revelation involve things pertaining to 70 AD. Prophecies predict future events. One can prophesy about future events having zero to do with the time they are presently living in. OT prophets did this all the time, especially if any of the prophecies involved the coming of the Messiah.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Zao is life
Upvote 0

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As to this verse it is perfectly reasonable why it's not meaning suddenly. As for the time is at hand, why can't that involve a long period of time over all? If someone said in the end of the first thousand years of AD that the time is at hand for the next millennium, none of that can involve the entire 2nd millennium but must only involve a few short days or a few short years of the 2nd millennium?
Yes, that's one of the things I'm also turning around in my head since I discovered this a little earlier this evening (my side of the world's "this evening").

But there is something else I need to check up on also now (see the update to my Post #16 at the bottom). I copied you on the update.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 18, 2020
2,972
913
Africa
Visit site
✟182,548.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It doesn't matter when Revelation was written. Even if it was written prior to 70 AD, this alone does not prove events recorded in Revelation involve things pertaining to 70 AD. Prophecies predict future events. One can prophesy about future events having zero to do with the time they are presently living in. OT prophets did this all the time, especially if any of the prophecies involved the coming of the Messiah.
It could also be like Matthew 24 and refer to both A.D 70 AND the close of the Age?

@DavidPT I have to go now. I'll be back tomorrow and catch up with any more posts (if there be any).
 
Upvote 0