Taodeching

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I am curious, what excuse do non-Christians and non-religious folks use to not get vaccinated? I guess it's the ingredients thing or "hasn't been tested for decades".

Good question.

Yeah, it's like people do things out of spite.

We didn't, we truly thought there was fetal tissue involved.

Oh they explained that it's ok to use fetal tissue? Well then of course they could not be in the wrong!

No, they explained there was none involved. Now as far as my Church and the Catholic Church I do believe they told us not to get J and J still because they haven't re-looked at the issue as far as I know. Personally I would not take J and J because I don't like the single shot effectiveness.
 
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hedrick

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This is one more reason why Homeschool is becoming more popular everyday! It is infuriating that those in control of the Public Schools think they have the right to take away the GOD-GIVEN RIGHTS of PARENTS.

Christians need to MOVE OUT of those districts/States to States that allow PARENTS to make the choices for their minor children.

Parents sue DC over 'reckless,' 'unconstitutional' law to vaccinate kids without parental consent
I don’t think this has anything to do with schools. The law allows minors to consent to vaccination. That would apply even if your child is home schooled. Several states in the South and Northwest have such laws.
 
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renniks

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I don’t think this has anything to do with schools. The law allows minors to consent to vaccination. That would apply even if your child is home schooled. Several states in the South and Northwest have such laws.
Can they decide to buy a beer too? That's a stupid law.
 
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The Barbarian

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Oh they explained that it's ok to use fetal tissue? Well then of course they could not be in the wrong!

No, the anti-vaxxers lied to you about that. None of the vaccines contain fetal tissue.
 
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The Barbarian

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renniks

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That's the people who invented the lie, the people peddling it.


Social media users have been sharing posts online that claim COVID-19 vaccines contain human aborted fetus cells, triton X-100, thimerosal, and aluminum. This claim is false.
Fact check: COVID-19 vaccines do not contain the ingredients listed in these posts

7 Biggest Lies Spread by the Anti-Vaccine Movement, Debunked by Science
Ok since you obviously didn't read the article I linked:

"However, in early March, Catholic Bishops in the U.S. muddied the waters by calling out the Johnson & Johnson vaccine as having "additional moral concerns." At issue is the precise role fetal-cell lines played in the development of the vaccine. While Moderna and Pfizer used them in testing only, J&J also used them in the production of its vaccine."

"While Moderna and Pfizer used fetal cells for testing their vaccine after it was already produced, J&J used fetal cells as tiny "factories" that produced the active ingredient in its vaccine. It was inside PER.C6 cells where a gene for the coronavirus' spike protein was attached to a modified adenovirus. (The vaccine works when the adenovirus infects human cells and the added gene instructs the cells to manufacture the spike protein, which elicits an immune response.)"

COVID-19 vaccines and fetal tissue: the science and controversy explained
 
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The Barbarian

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Ok since you obviously didn't read the article I linked:

It doesn't say there's fetal cells in the vaccines, either. I get your concern; there was a huge controversy in medicine after WWII as to whether or not to use knowledge gained by the Nazis in horrendously cruel experiments. Most of it was junk to begin with, but some knowledge was also gained in that process.

If the particularly cruel experiments in hypothermia produced information that could save lives, should we use it?

Most people are pulled both ways on that one. And it's like that with the J&J vaccine. I assume you realize that none of the cells used have ever actually been part of an embryo. But there's still the fact that an unborn human provided the initial cells for the culture.

A very wise man of God once said "when in doubt, choose life." I agree. If that makes it any easier for you.
 
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coffee4u

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Sometimes people are abusive out of love. Many beaten children have been told it's for their own good.

In general, I agree about the importance of conscience and the place of a parent's authority, but I do think it has limits. In general I wouldn't put vaccination over that limit, but for Covid, given the social situation and the death rate, I think an argument could be made. Because a happy and healthy child can be dead next week. And I say this conscious that a friend of mine is burying her three year old who died of Covid, this week.

Education is definitely important, but at the end of the day, it's the child's safety that matters most, more than the opinions or feelings of the parent.

I am very sorry for your friends. Nobody should ever have to bury a child.
I am not saying parents should not have the option to get children vaccinated, just that it should be an option, not mandated and certainly not children pulled from loving homes.

People are scared of Covid and yes I understand that but smoking takes 24,000 Australian lives every year and nobody seems fearful of that nor are they trying to take children away from parents who smoke. To me this is hypocritical. The dangers to a child living in a house full of smoke are higher then a child catching Covid and dying.
 
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Paidiske

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I am very sorry for your friends. Nobody should ever have to bury a child.
I am not saying parents should not have the option to get children vaccinated, just that it should be an option, not mandated and certainly not children pulled from loving homes.

People are scared of Covid and yes I understand that but smoking takes 24,000 Australian lives every year and nobody seems fearful of that nor are they trying to take children away from parents who smoke. To me this is hypocritical. The dangers to a child living in a house full of smoke are higher then a child catching Covid and dying.

I don't think anyone is talking about removing a child from their parents over this. But I can see the argument for mandating vaccination of children. I am not sure I would make that decision, but the argument has some merit.

I think smoking is different because the history has been different. Yes, we probably should take a stronger stance on smoking. In the meantime, that's separate to the question of refusing to vaccinate in a pandemic that's killed (last time I checked) a bit over five million people, globally.
 
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Taodeching

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I think smoking is different because the history has been different. Yes, we probably should take a stronger stance on smoking. In the meantime, that's separate to the question of refusing to vaccinate in a pandemic that's killed (last time I checked) a bit over five million people, globally.

I would have to agree. Smoking and Covid are apples and oranges, just like some people try to compare obesity and Covid again apples and oranges. Covid kills now not later and there is no stopping Covid like one can stop smoking and there is no losing Covid like one can weight.

I think it is hard to understand how deadly something is when some people always hear things like "I got Covid and I got over it" or "Covid is like a bad flu" and it never really touches them in a significant way. Then things are changing so rapidly that some people think they are being lied too, so they pile on mistrust and gravitate to things that sounds plausible like in the example smoking and Covid.

Maybe someday the people can understand how bad Covid really was and that a majority of people who got it have life long side effects
 
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coffee4u

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I don't think anyone is talking about removing a child from their parents over this. But I can see the argument for mandating vaccination of children. I am not sure I would make that decision, but the argument has some merit.

I think smoking is different because the history has been different. Yes, we probably should take a stronger stance on smoking. In the meantime, that's separate to the question of refusing to vaccinate in a pandemic that's killed (last time I checked) a bit over five million people, globally.

>>>>I don't think anyone is talking about removing a child from their parents over this.

This was my take on this or the possible threat of it happening later. If the government can pass policy that not vaccinating a child is abuse then this sets a precedence, it widens what abuse is. Parents wishes will be more easily overthrown on other vaccinations and then move onto other situations as they come up.

I am very wary of giving government any control over what I believe are family decisions.
I bleive the majority of parents will probably get their children vaccinated anyway, but they should decide this and have weighed up the pros and cons and come to the decision that falls in line with their own conscience. Sever reactions may be rare but if someones child has long term health issues from the vaccination or even dies from it that is cold comfort to those parents. It's not like the vaccine itself is 100% guaranteed safe and effective and parents who say no are just being silly. There are tiny but real risks and it is those risks that are stopping most of the small percentage from getting vaccinated.

Once a law passes its very hard to go back. It can be used as a step to make another law easier to pass and gradually parental rights can be eroded. Government decisions are only as good as whoever is in charge. It is the 'other things' that concern me more. In North Korea you can be shot for reading the Bible. This isn't us but its a good example of where a country can eventually end up, with all citizens rights stripped away.
 
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Archivist

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Why would a reasonable person not become livid when the state assumes the parent does not have the child's best interest at heart and must do things behind the parent's backs.? What other things might the state decide that children must do or be told that the state doesn't want the parents to know about? Why do you assume the state is more interested in protecting children than the children's parents are? I have yet to see politician that cared one whit about my children.
The decision was made at a public meeting. What exactly was done behind the parents backs?
 
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hedrick

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The decision was made at a public meeting. What exactly was done behind the parents backs?
What’s behind the parents back is that they aren’t told and can’t easily find out that their child has been vaccinated. That’s the only way the law could work.
 
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coffee4u

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Note that this isn’t specifically about Covid. The law applies to any approved immunization. As many may know, immunization for measles Hades become an issue.

Exactly. Things always start with a drop and then that drop becomes a trickle and if things are not checked it can turn into a deluge.

Vaccination decisions should be left up to parents. If the government wants to influence people they have far better means at their disposal. They can run education programs and put incentives in place, like tax cuts or a $300 parenting payment on proof of vaccination. Not force things and turn them into mandates and laws. This is the very thing that create these protest marches and protests are a sure way to get the virus to spread.

The vast majority of parents will get their child vaccinated, its a small minority who will choose not to, but they should still be free to do that. In most cases the herd immunity protects those children anyway. But by educating and having incentives you may find some of the resistant come around by themselves and then its even a smaller number who choose not to.
 
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What’s behind the parents back is that they aren’t told and can’t easily find out that their child has been vaccinated. That’s the only way the law could work.
Meetings are public, so parents can attend. Decisions made at those meetings are reported in newspapers and other media. This isn’t being hidden from parents.
 
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coffee4u

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Meetings are public, so parents can attend. Decisions made at those meetings are reported in newspapers and other media. This isn’t being hidden from parents.

Being at a meeting and watching things get passed that you are powerless to stop is little comfort.
 
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