Did Jesus have faith? (Note: I have an answer, but I am curious as to what others have to say).

Did Jesus have faith?

  • I don’t know.

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  • Other (Please explain).

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not from faith; for whatsoever is not from faith is sin.

Again, this specific instruction was for the church, and it was not an instruction from God the Father to Jesus. In other words, context is important, my friend.
 
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Strong in Him

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You are simply misunderstanding me, friend. That’s not the reason I gave that statement. I made that statement because I don’t want to mislead people to think I don’t know the answer. That’s all.

That's not how it comes across.
It comes across as "I'm asking this question; I already know what I think, and if you disagree, I'll show you where you're wrong."

Anyway, I'm out of here.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Externally tempted? Yes. Internally tempted? No.

James 1:13
“…for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”

Please keep in mind that I am fully aware of what Matthew 4:1, Hebrews 2:16-17, and Hebrews 4:15 says. I believe this is talking about external temptation and not internal temptation. External temptation is when somebody offers you some obviously stolen goods on the street and you later to say to your friends that you were tempted by this shady person. Granted, you were not really interested in what he had, you were only tempted externally by the other guy. Internal temptation means you have some kind of lust or wrong desire within you in order to consider in doing that evil thing. Jesus says if you even look at a woman in lust, you have committed adultery already in your heart. So Jesus did not even have lustful thoughts towards women. It is because there was no lusts within Jesus because He is the Holy Son of God.

Hebrews 7:26
“For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”
The problem is you IGNORED that Jesus was also 100% man and man CAN be tempted and to be honest I doubt either of us know how much "God" Jesus had operating in him or as you equate it.... "supressed".
Personally this internal vs external temptation idea is meaningless as it only equates that you are immune to being tempted and you already have decided Jesus is immune to temptation which would mean he isn't a man at all. I say Jesus resisted temptation and lusting/desiring etc but did have to deal with it as equated in Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did .
In this scripture someone who is immune to temptation entirely could not empathize with our weaknesses because essentially he was immune to it and that (to me) means he felt nothing of being tempted and no struggle to overcome it. Someone who has never suffered cannot emphasize with the suffering of another IMO.
I believe Jesus suppressed His divine attribute of Omniscience but He never lost it.
Suppressed, or whatever Jesus I believe had to concentrate on being God and I also theorize that the like believers after pentacost the Holy Spirit showed up. It is quite possible that for the miracles he did as a child he called upon the Holy Spirit to do such and not of his own divinity the Bible doesn't really equate one or the other. Now when Jesus began his ministry the Holy Spirit was there falling upon him with his baptism by John.
Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling him still not using his own divine powers could accomplish as a man anything that we could with the same power of God and the Holy Spirit acting under the Father's guidance would easily do what is needed in all situations and thus be doing the Father's Will in it. There were times when Jesus didn't do any miracles at all. To be honest it would be confusing to really know for sure if it were Jesus divinity or power doing everything he did or the Holy Spirit's power as also God doing everything or a mixture of one or the other. If all that were done in his incarnation as a man was done by the Holy Spirit acting as his "agent" of God then he would be totally Man essentially devoid of God for practical purposes.
I believe I read somewhere that Jesus set aside his divinity, you use suppress which to me is not quite the same in definition as it could equate a constant action instead of just turning off and turning on when needed. With Angels and the Holy Spirit protecting him he could easily be just a man in life till God's power is needed and thus be 100% able to empathize.

Because Jesus did not have a nature of sin like all of mankind inheriting it through Adam's sin he was giving the opportunity to lust but could resist it without the use of his deity it was more along the line of a choice to sin or not but likely he still had to feel and see things that we do and decide or choose to not go beyond desire in his heart (and mind).

In the end if Jesus could truly empathize with us, he had to be tempted and have the chance to doubt etc otherwise his empathy would be a sham. The Bible equates he was tempted in the Desert for 40 days and if he cannot be tempted then he wasn't tempted at all but the Bible disagrees because part of the temptation in the desert was feeling hungry and thirsty which he did and it was not comfortable at all he could have chosen comfort and fall into temptation. Jesus had faith in God (the Father) and the writings of the Bible that he would not die of hunger and thirst during that 40 days. Personally I would probably have died if I had to go that long.
 
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DamianWarS

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What faith in Himself?
Faith in the Father. Christ is quoted: "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” that sounds like faith to me.
 
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Mr. M

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You don’t appear to be helping me but only criticizing me over something I written with invented bad motivations that I never intended to be bad (as you initially suggested). The problem is that you did not even apologize for the false accusation. You read what I wrote and read it the wrong way, and now you want your thoughts to be the standard of how everyone should write? I am not boasting that I have all knowledge and neither am I suggesting to others that I am close minded to people’s beliefs in the Bible by the statement I made for the title and OP of this thread.

In fact, I have created several threads where I asked a question on a topic and included this disclaimer so as not to mislead people in that I do have the answer. I asked the question because I would like to see what other believers believe. I don’t recall getting this much heat or heavy criticism over my question with this disclaimer, though. Most do not seem to have a problem with it. If they did, don’t you think more people would speak up about it? So you appear to be imagining something that is not there.

In any event, we can agree to disagree in love and respect.

May God bless you.


Side Note:

But seeing that the thread title, and OP with the disclaimer upsets you this much, I will attempt to update it to smooth relations between us. Note: Please understand that I will not update all of my threads that have this question with a disclaimer because I have several of them, and I don’t know how to find them all. So I will just update this current one in the hopes of extending an olive branch.

Anyways, may God’s good ways be upon you in the Lord.
In that spirit, and not because I expect you to change anything, if you go to your profile
page, select postings, then scroll to the bottom and you can separate threads from responses.
Very handy to research/review anyone's work on the forum. With that, I will make this my final
post on your thread. We have shared enough of our views for any reader to weigh both POV's.
May all your olive branches miraculously produce olives, even as Aaron's rod brought forth almonds.

P.S. If you asked the Lord, what is faith? I suggest that His answer might be
I AM that I Am. Try it for any and all good things...What is Love?
What is Truth?(Don't tell Pilate, but the correct form of the question would actually
be WHO is Truth, Love, Faith)
John 14:6 I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
 
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Mr. M

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In that spirit, and not because I expect you to change anything, if you go to your profile
page, select postings, then scroll to the bottom and you can separate threads from responses.
Very handy to research/review anyone's work on the forum. With that, I will make this my final
post on your thread. We have shared enough of our views for any reader to weigh both POV's.
May all your olive branches miraculously produce olives, even as Aaron's rod brought forth almonds.

P.S. If you asked the Lord, what is faith? I suggest that His answer might be
I AM that I Am. Try it for any and all good things...What is Love?
What is Truth?(Don't tell Pilate, but the correct form of the question would actually
be WHO is Truth, Love, Faith)
 
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SkyWriting

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That's not how it comes across.
It comes across as "I'm asking this question; I already know what I think, and if you disagree, I'll show you where you're wrong."

Anyway, I'm out of here.
That's the same message I've gotten. Very unprofessional.
 
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SkyWriting

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Faith in the Father. Christ is quoted: "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” that sounds like faith to me.
I think Jesus voluntarily limited his knowledge of future events.
Nobody likes a know-it-all.
 
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SkyWriting

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The problem is you IGNORED that Jesus was also 100% man and man CAN be tempted and to be honest I doubt either of us know how much "God" Jesus had operating in him or as you equate it.... "supressed".
Personally this internal vs external temptation idea is meaningless as it only equates that you are immune to being tempted and you already have decided Jesus is immune to temptation which would mean he isn't a man at all. I say Jesus resisted temptation and lusting/desiring etc but did have to deal with it as equated in Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did .
In this scripture someone who is immune to temptation entirely could not empathize with our weaknesses because essentially he was immune to it and that (to me) means he felt nothing of being tempted and no struggle to overcome it. Someone who has never suffered cannot emphasize with the suffering of another IMO.
Suppressed, or whatever Jesus I believe had to concentrate on being God and I also theorize that the like believers after pentacost the Holy Spirit showed up. It is quite possible that for the miracles he did as a child he called upon the Holy Spirit to do such and not of his own divinity the Bible doesn't really equate one or the other. Now when Jesus began his ministry the Holy Spirit was there falling upon him with his baptism by John.
Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling him still not using his own divine powers could accomplish as a man anything that we could with the same power of God and the Holy Spirit acting under the Father's guidance would easily do what is needed in all situations and thus be doing the Father's Will in it. There were times when Jesus didn't do any miracles at all. To be honest it would be confusing to really know for sure if it were Jesus divinity or power doing everything he did or the Holy Spirit's power as also God doing everything or a mixture of one or the other. If all that were done in his incarnation as a man was done by the Holy Spirit acting as his "agent" of God then he would be totally Man essentially devoid of God for practical purposes.
I believe I read somewhere that Jesus set aside his divinity, you use suppress which to me is not quite the same in definition as it could equate a constant action instead of just turning off and turning on when needed. With Angels and the Holy Spirit protecting him he could easily be just a man in life till God's power is needed and thus be 100% able to empathize.

Because Jesus did not have a nature of sin like all of mankind inheriting it through Adam's sin he was giving the opportunity to lust but could resist it without the use of his deity it was more along the line of a choice to sin or not but likely he still had to feel and see things that we do and decide or choose to not go beyond desire in his heart (and mind).

In the end if Jesus could truly empathize with us, he had to be tempted and have the chance to doubt etc otherwise his empathy would be a sham. The Bible equates he was tempted in the Desert for 40 days and if he cannot be tempted then he wasn't tempted at all but the Bible disagrees because part of the temptation in the desert was feeling hungry and thirsty which he did and it was not comfortable at all he could have chosen comfort and fall into temptation. Jesus had faith in God (the Father) and the writings of the Bible that he would not die of hunger and thirst during that 40 days. Personally I would probably have died if I had to go that long.

Without Faith a person is perceived as arrogant. With Jesus this rarely happened. Though it did happen.
 
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Marumorose

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Did Jesus have faith?
(Note: I have an answer, but I am curious as to what others have to say.).

Side Note:

Please use Scripture to support your position. Thank you.
Jesus Christ IS Faith
Galatians 3:26-27 "So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
May God Bless You
 
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DamianWarS

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I think Jesus voluntarily limited his knowledge of future events.
Nobody like a know-it-all.
the prevailing doctrine is still that Christ was fully God as well as fully human. If we remove his human attributes we take away from his humanity and then he's just a God that came down and pretended to be human, which is Docetism. If it sounds like a paradox it's because it is. God is impassable yet Christ suffered and died on the cross. So we accept these paradoxes without knowing just how they work but knowing how they work is not a condition of them working.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Without Faith a person is perceived as arrogant. With Jesus this rarely happened. Though it did happen.
I don't recall Jesus as being without faith or arrogant, I do recall a case where he was surprised by a woman with the issue of blood I believe that by God's guidance Jesus was not to go to the gentiles but only the people of Israel and she wanted to be healed and he was surprised that she was humble and was willing to "beg for scraps" from the table. He could not argue that dogs were often allowed to eat scraps and she was healed.

I think that at times ignorance can obstruct our "having faith" because we are not sure what to do, do we do what we can do.... or what we think God wants us to and are we right/wrong about our thinking?
 
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SkyWriting

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I don't recall Jesus as being without faith or arrogant, I do recall a case where he was surprised by a woman with the issue of blood I believe that by God's guidance Jesus was not to go to the gentiles but only the people of Israel and she wanted to be healed and he was surprised that she was humble and was willing to "beg for scraps" from the table. He could not argue that dogs were often allowed to eat scraps and she was healed.

I think that at times ignorance can obstruct our "having faith" because we are not sure what to do, do we do what we can do.... or what we think God wants us to and are we right/wrong about our thinking?
Scripture says to do "what is right." So we should do that.
It makes sense that to do "what is wrong" would clearly be evil.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Scripture says to do "what is right." So we should do that.
It makes sense that to do "what is wrong" would clearly be evil.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
There are countless examples of things in the Bible where people did wrong that God already planned for and the results of their "wrongness" turned out to be the best "right". One example is when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery and the results were God used that to save his people from famine and to bless them. So without knowing the full plan of God we cannot truly know without a doubt everything we do is wrong or right we will always come across situations where we make mistakes and God uses it to make a miracle for us.
 
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SkyWriting

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There are countless examples of things in the Bible where people did wrong that God already planned for and the results of their "wrongness" turned out to be the best "right". One example is when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery and the results were God used that to save his people from famine and to bless them. So without knowing the full plan of God we cannot truly know without a doubt everything we do is wrong or right we will always come across situations where we make mistakes and God uses it to make a miracle for us.

Correct. That's why we do what is right.
And why we are not qualified to judge right or wrong for others actions.
We can only see our own sin, not that of others.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Correct. That's why we do what is right.
And why we are not qualified to judge right or wrong for others actions.
We can only see our own sin, not that of others.
Actually we are qualified to judge right and wrong for others actions, but not totally all the time. We must judge others actions so we can avoid the consequences of their sins in our lives. We can also try and convince people that they are doing wrong so they too can avoid the consequences of such. Our judging however isn't related to sentencing and punishing others not in our care.
 
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The problem is you IGNORED that Jesus was also 100% man and man CAN be tempted and to be honest I doubt either of us know how much "God" Jesus had operating in him or as you equate it.... "supressed".
Personally this internal vs external temptation idea is meaningless as it only equates that you are immune to being tempted and you already have decided Jesus is immune to temptation which would mean he isn't a man at all. I say Jesus resisted temptation and lusting/desiring etc but did have to deal with it as equated in Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did .
In this scripture someone who is immune to temptation entirely could not empathize with our weaknesses because essentially he was immune to it and that (to me) means he felt nothing of being tempted and no struggle to overcome it. Someone who has never suffered cannot emphasize with the suffering of another IMO.
Suppressed, or whatever Jesus I believe had to concentrate on being God and I also theorize that the like believers after pentacost the Holy Spirit showed up. It is quite possible that for the miracles he did as a child he called upon the Holy Spirit to do such and not of his own divinity the Bible doesn't really equate one or the other. Now when Jesus began his ministry the Holy Spirit was there falling upon him with his baptism by John.
Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling him still not using his own divine powers could accomplish as a man anything that we could with the same power of God and the Holy Spirit acting under the Father's guidance would easily do what is needed in all situations and thus be doing the Father's Will in it. There were times when Jesus didn't do any miracles at all. To be honest it would be confusing to really know for sure if it were Jesus divinity or power doing everything he did or the Holy Spirit's power as also God doing everything or a mixture of one or the other. If all that were done in his incarnation as a man was done by the Holy Spirit acting as his "agent" of God then he would be totally Man essentially devoid of God for practical purposes.
I believe I read somewhere that Jesus set aside his divinity, you use suppress which to me is not quite the same in definition as it could equate a constant action instead of just turning off and turning on when needed. With Angels and the Holy Spirit protecting him he could easily be just a man in life till God's power is needed and thus be 100% able to empathize.

Because Jesus did not have a nature of sin like all of mankind inheriting it through Adam's sin he was giving the opportunity to lust but could resist it without the use of his deity it was more along the line of a choice to sin or not but likely he still had to feel and see things that we do and decide or choose to not go beyond desire in his heart (and mind).

In the end if Jesus could truly empathize with us, he had to be tempted and have the chance to doubt etc otherwise his empathy would be a sham. The Bible equates he was tempted in the Desert for 40 days and if he cannot be tempted then he wasn't tempted at all but the Bible disagrees because part of the temptation in the desert was feeling hungry and thirsty which he did and it was not comfortable at all he could have chosen comfort and fall into temptation. Jesus had faith in God (the Father) and the writings of the Bible that he would not die of hunger and thirst during that 40 days. Personally I would probably have died if I had to go that long.

Again, as I already stated. There is a huge difference between external temptation and internal temptation. A man can be tempted externally by a phone telemarketer, and have no interest in the telemarketer's junk he is selling. So this would mean there would be no internal temptation by the person being solicited or called. Jesus was tempted externally in every way as we are. This is how is able to sympathize with our weakness in Hebrews 4:15 because He knows firsthand what it is like to be tempted as a human. It does not mean Jesus actually considered even for a half a second to do wrong. Again, God cannot be tempted by evil. For if you truly believe Jesus is God, then you must grab hold of the truth in James 1:13 and believe it.

James 1:13
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”

The Scriptures also say that Jesus is HOLY, UNDEFILED, and SEPARATE from sinners.

Hebrews 7:26
“For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”

So where did this internal temptation come from within Jesus? If Jesus could be tempted by evil, according to the Bible He cannot be God because God cannot be tempted by evil. Jesus is also said to be separate from sinners and He is holy, and undefiled.

Jesus is called the LAMB of God who takes away the sin of the world.

John 1:29
“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”

You are suggesting that there is some kind of spot or darkness within my Lord Jesus whereby He could potentially do wrong in that you suggest that He was actually internally tempted by sin.

1 Peter 1:18-19
18 “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:”

Jesus is our spotless Lamb.

There was no spot within Him to do any wrong.

Jesus' is the pure spotless and clean Lamb who was able to cleanse us from sin. Jesus is holy, undefiled, and separate from sinners. But you want me to believe that Jesus is not separate from sinners (Which is contrary to Hebrews 7:26).

Jesus at His core is the ETERNAL Logos or Word (i.e. God).
Remember, the Word is God (John 1:1), and the Word was made flesh (John 1:14). The core essence of Jesus is that He is God. Yes, He was also a human, but it was not possible for Him to sin or do wrong because He is God Almighty.
 
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The problem is you IGNORED that Jesus was also 100% man and man CAN be tempted and to be honest I doubt either of us know how much "God" Jesus had operating in him or as you equate it.... "supressed".
Personally this internal vs external temptation idea is meaningless as it only equates that you are immune to being tempted and you already have decided Jesus is immune to temptation which would mean he isn't a man at all. I say Jesus resisted temptation and lusting/desiring etc but did have to deal with it as equated in Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did .
In this scripture someone who is immune to temptation entirely could not empathize with our weaknesses because essentially he was immune to it and that (to me) means he felt nothing of being tempted and no struggle to overcome it. Someone who has never suffered cannot emphasize with the suffering of another IMO.
Suppressed, or whatever Jesus I believe had to concentrate on being God and I also theorize that the like believers after pentacost the Holy Spirit showed up. It is quite possible that for the miracles he did as a child he called upon the Holy Spirit to do such and not of his own divinity the Bible doesn't really equate one or the other. Now when Jesus began his ministry the Holy Spirit was there falling upon him with his baptism by John.
Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling him still not using his own divine powers could accomplish as a man anything that we could with the same power of God and the Holy Spirit acting under the Father's guidance would easily do what is needed in all situations and thus be doing the Father's Will in it. There were times when Jesus didn't do any miracles at all. To be honest it would be confusing to really know for sure if it were Jesus divinity or power doing everything he did or the Holy Spirit's power as also God doing everything or a mixture of one or the other. If all that were done in his incarnation as a man was done by the Holy Spirit acting as his "agent" of God then he would be totally Man essentially devoid of God for practical purposes.
I believe I read somewhere that Jesus set aside his divinity, you use suppress which to me is not quite the same in definition as it could equate a constant action instead of just turning off and turning on when needed. With Angels and the Holy Spirit protecting him he could easily be just a man in life till God's power is needed and thus be 100% able to empathize.

Because Jesus did not have a nature of sin like all of mankind inheriting it through Adam's sin he was giving the opportunity to lust but could resist it without the use of his deity it was more along the line of a choice to sin or not but likely he still had to feel and see things that we do and decide or choose to not go beyond desire in his heart (and mind).

In the end if Jesus could truly empathize with us, he had to be tempted and have the chance to doubt etc otherwise his empathy would be a sham. The Bible equates he was tempted in the Desert for 40 days and if he cannot be tempted then he wasn't tempted at all but the Bible disagrees because part of the temptation in the desert was feeling hungry and thirsty which he did and it was not comfortable at all he could have chosen comfort and fall into temptation. Jesus had faith in God (the Father) and the writings of the Bible that he would not die of hunger and thirst during that 40 days. Personally I would probably have died if I had to go that long.

Also, there is the definition of faith in the Bible. It says this:

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1).

Did Jesus have faith in substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen?

No, Jesus did not have faith in things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen because Jesus seen God the Father, and Heaven, etcetera. Jesus did not have any hope of salvation like we have because Jesus did not need salvation because He is the source of salvation.

John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

John 11:25
“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:”
 
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Jesus Christ IS Faith
Galatians 3:26-27 "So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
May God Bless You

Jesus Christ is the object of OUR FAITH. This does not mean Jesus had faith. Read the definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1.

Hebrews 11:1
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

Did Jesus have the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen? In other words, did Jesus ever hope for seeing God the Father, and an unseen Heaven? No. Jesus seen God the Father and Heaven before coming down to this Earth when He (the Word) was made flesh.
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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In that spirit, and not because I expect you to change anything, if you go to your profile
page, select postings, then scroll to the bottom and you can separate threads from responses.

Thanks for the tip.
Blessings to you the Lord for that.

You said:
P.S. If you asked the Lord, what is faith? I suggest that His answer might be
I AM that I Am. Try it for any and all good things...What is Love?
What is Truth?(Don't tell Pilate, but the correct form of the question would actually
be WHO is Truth, Love, Faith)
John 14:6 I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

John 14:6 makes no mention about how Jesus had faith. John 14:6 is talking about how Jesus is our salvation, path, and truth. Again, the definition of faith is given to us in Hebrews 11:1. There is no other direct and clear definition given for faith like this that I am aware of. So we have to go by Hebrews 11:1. If this is the case, then we must conclude Jesus did not have faith because Jesus did not have the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:1
“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

Jesus did not hope to see God and Heaven someday (Which are unseen things like for us). Jesus had already seen God and Heaven already because He is the Eternal Word.
 
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