WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

Christian7777777 said:

Gods law is what Israel sought..


Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

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According to the scriptures, God's Israel in the new covenant are now all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. In the new covenant Gods Israel is no longer only those believers who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all believers who have been born of the Spirit into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; see Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29 and Romans 2:28-29. Therefore if you are not a part of God's Israel in the new covenant you have no part in God's new covenant promise which is only made to Gods Israel which is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says.

Christian7777777 said:

Those in the law have no works, as works is not mercy, faith is mercy,m that is why through the faith of Christ we have mercy ( this is to be believed in and law is what kills and has no mercy in it)

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According to James if your faith does not have works all you have is the dead faith of devils (see James 2:17-26) Which agrees with John who shows that the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is sin (breaking Gods' law) in 1 John 3:6-9. Therefore according to John no one can claim to know God while living in sin and disobedience to Gods' Word in 1 John 2:3-4.

Christian7777777 said:

The law was a shadow, a shadow points but the Spirit ( Christ anointed with the Holy Ghost) leads us to peace..

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Gods' Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) and there has not been a single scripture you have provided to prove this. You mix up the "shadow laws" of the old covenant Levitical Priesthood and the old covenant laws for remission of sins and sin offerings through animal sacrifice in Hebrews 7 and Hebrews 10 with Gods' 10 commandments that is God's eternal law that gives us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral wrong doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. I wonder what Jesus means in Matthew 9:12-13 can you tell me?

Christian7777777 said:

Circumcision is part of the law, otherwise those who still circumcise would not be debtor to do the whole law..Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

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According to the scriptures there is no circumcision in Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) and according to Paul it is not important as it is written "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." 1 Corinthians 7:19. Circumcision is a shadow law of a new heart through faith which is a fulfillment of God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Christian7777777 said:

Gods 10 commandments were in tables of stone, now they are written in the heart, to not be taught to b kept, that it nonsense when faith has them in there already. Anyone teaching law observance teaches against the faith, or would only preach of Christ crucified and risen.

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If Gods' law is written in your heart you will not be breaking them. That is the point *1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 5:2-3; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31.

Christian7777777 said:

The law is nothing, as it is the promise of the Spirit through the righteousness of faith..

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Indeed righteousness is by faith as it is written...'Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, we establish the law. Therefore faith does not abolish God's law like some try and teach it is established in the heart of all those who believe and follow what Gods Word says. (see Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:4; Romans 3:31; James 2:8-12; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 5:2-4; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; and Ezekiel 36:24-27).

Take Care.

Christian7777777 said:

I said already, anyone who engages with those in doctrines of necessity, also do not follow faith, otherwise we are told, in the faith, to avoid them. They are answered and have nothing to say, and I did answer all.
I also cannot follow law, as I never joined a divided sect of Christianity.

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Gods' law does not teach disobedience to the faith. In fact Gods' Word teaches that our faith leads us to obedience to the faith (see Romans 1:5 and Romans 3:31). Disobedience to the faith according to James is the dead faith of devils according to James 2:17-26.

Take Care.

Christian7777777 said:

You think you do well by leaving out the crucial part each time ? It is put back in for you, not to avoid and ignore.

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No one has told you we are justified by the works of the law. If no one has told you we are justified by the works of the law why are you pretending that they have? You were already told what I believe according to the scriptures but you refuse to respond to what your disagreement is. I posted earlier that we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins. According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law therefore is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Therefore says Jesus you shall know them (who is from God and who is not) by their fruit. *Matthew 7:16-20; John 15:1-6; 1 John 2:3-4. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils.

Now what it is here that you are in disagreement with and if we are in agreement then what is your argument? - You have none because we are in agreement.

Take Care

klutedavid said:

Still at it LGW.

Here is the verse from the scripture.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

"FOR THE LAW MADE NOTHING PERFECT"

Here is your interpretation of the verse above.

Hebrews 7 is talking about the law of the Priesthood and God's laws for remission of sins under the old covenant. Not God's 10 commandments.

Sorry about that LGW, for the law is the ten commandments.

You can't change the scripture, the law always includes the ten commandments.

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It seems you think that the law mentioned in Hebrews 7 is talking about Gods' 10 commandments? Prove it? I bet you cannot because the chapter context and subject matter is to the laws of the Levitical Priesthood.

Here is the context and subject matter you left out which is the changing of the law of the Levitical Priesthood because Jesus was of the tribe of Judah (only Levites could be Priests under old covenant law)...

Hebrews 7: 11-18 [11], If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people received the law, what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? [12], For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. [13], For he of whom these things are spoken pertains to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. [14], For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. [15], And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there rises another priest, [16], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. [17], For he testifies, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. [18], For there is truly a cancellation of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Hebrews 7:28, For the law makes men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makes the Son, who is consecrated for ever more.

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience

The changing of the law in Hebrews 7 is the changing of the law of the Priesthood not Gods' 10 commandments. Your disregarding chapter context and subject matter.

Take Care

klutedavid said:

When the scripture says, 'the law', it always means the entire law. Your the one who changes that phrase 'the law', into 'the laws of the Levitical Priesthood'.

Chapter 7 is discussing the law and more importantly Jesus Christ, the great high priest.

That does not mean that the phrase 'the law' means something else.

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No it doesn't, especially in Hebrews 7 and not always as the chapter and scripture, context and subject matter determine what is being discussed. As proven through the scriptures in post # 611 linked we can see that Hebrews 7 is talking about the changing of the law of the Levitical Priesthood because Jesus was of the tribe of Judah.

klutedavid said:

Hebrews 7:18
For, on the one hand, there is the nullification of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness..

A "FORMER COMMANDMENT".

Wave your SDA wand over that one!

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Already did by providing the scripture context and subject matter you disregarded in post # 611 linked that shows that the law and commandment (singular not plural) being discussed here is the law of the Levitical Priesthood.

klutedavid said:

It said COMMANDMENT, not the law of the Levitical priesthood.

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Indeed it was a commandment from God in Exodus 27:21; Exodus 28:1; Exodus 28:43 etc etc... that only Levites could be Priests. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah *see the scripture context and subject matter provided in post # 611 linked for Hebrews 7