The Desecration of the Second Temple

keras · Jan 15, 2022

Much discussion centers around the time period that King Antiochus 4th Epiphanes, [A4E] caused an abomination to be set up on the Temple Altar.

This happened soon after A4E conquered Judah and stripped anything valuable out of the Temple and forced the population to renounce Judaism and circumcision and to accept a Greek style of civilization.

Later; Judas Maccabee defeated A4E, cleansed and rededicated the Temple.
Antiochus died a horrible death. 2 Maccabees 9:5-10

Here is the dates that these things happened:

1 Maccabees 1:20-28 A4E conquers Judah and takes loot and slaves. 169 BC

2 Maccabees 5:1-26 graphically describes this conquest.

1 Maccabees 1:29-31 Two years later, 167 BC; A4E sent a Governor to enforce his edicts. He sacked and burned the city.

1 Maccabees 1:47-50 Sacrifices and offerings were forbidden.

1 Maccabees 1:54 The abomination set up in the Temple; 15th of Kislev 167 BC

1 Maccabees 4:52 The Temple rededicated and consecrated; 25th Kislev 164 BC

There is 3 years and 10 days, that the Temple was in a state of desecration.

365.24 X 3 = 1096 + 10 = a total period of 1106 days.

This time period doesn’t match with the 1150 days of Daniel 8:14.....2300 evening and morning sacrifices. Or with the 1260 days of Revelation.

But we see that it must have been just a short time between when the Governor came and destroyed Jerusalem, stopping the sacrifices and offerings, to when he made the abomination on the Altar. 44 days would be about right.

So the total time the Temple was out of use was 1150 days.
The fulfilment of Daniel 8:14 was in 164 BC.

The future Temple desecration will be 1260 days; 42 months as; Revelation 13:5-8

Then; exactly 75 days later, 1335 days after the Temple was desecrated, the final Hanukkah will be celebrated as the Temple is re-consecrated.

There WILL be a new Temple in Jerusalem, many Prophesies prove this.

trophy33 · Jan 15, 2022

keras said:
There WILL be a new Temple in Jerusalem, many Prophesies prove this.

when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place...
Mt 24:15

No other Jewish temple will be the holy place. Their spiritual age ended in the first century. Any third temple, if ever built, will be just a Jewish cultural building, not the place where God is.

Therefore, the verse has to be about the 2nd temple. It would also make no sense that Jesus would tell His disciples about some late future 3rd temple and running away from Jerusalem, while not telling them the end of the 2nd one. He obviously warned them personally.

Lost4words · Jan 15, 2022

If there is a new temple built in Jerusalem it will be a false one and of no importance what so ever.

Original Happy Camper · Jan 15, 2022

keras said:
Much discussion centers around the time period that King Antiochus 4th Epiphanes, [A4E] caused an abomination to be set up on the Temple Altar.

This happened soon after A4E conquered Judah and stripped anything valuable out of the Temple and forced the population to renounce Judaism and circumcision and to accept a Greek style of civilization.

Later; Judas Maccabee defeated A4E, cleansed and rededicated the Temple.
Antiochus died a horrible death. 2 Maccabees 9:5-10

Here is the dates that these things happened:

1 Maccabees 1:20-28 A4E conquers Judah and takes loot and slaves. 169 BC

2 Maccabees 5:1-26 graphically describes this conquest.

1 Maccabees 1:29-31 Two years later, 167 BC; A4E sent a Governor to enforce his edicts. He sacked and burned the city.

1 Maccabees 1:47-50 Sacrifices and offerings were forbidden.

1 Maccabees 1:54 The abomination set up in the Temple; 15th of Kislev 167 BC

1 Maccabees 4:52 The Temple rededicated and consecrated; 25th Kislev 164 BC

There is 3 years and 10 days, that the Temple was in a state of desecration.

365.24 X 3 = 1096 + 10 = a total period of 1106 days.

This time period doesn’t match with the 1150 days of Daniel 8:14.....2300 evening and morning sacrifices. Or with the 1260 days of Revelation.

But we see that it must have been just a short time between when the Governor came and destroyed Jerusalem, stopping the sacrifices and offerings, to when he made the abomination on the Altar. 44 days would be about right.

So the total time the Temple was out of use was 1150 days.
The fulfilment of Daniel 8:14 was in 164 BC.

The future Temple desecration will be 1260 days; 42 months as; Revelation 13:5-8

Then; exactly 75 days later, 1335 days after the Temple was desecrated, the final Hanukkah will be celebrated as the Temple is re-consecrated.

There WILL be a new Temple in Jerusalem, many Prophesies prove this.

The Apocrypha is based on mysticism and supposedly contains secret doctrines. At the Catholic Council of Trent, this was decreed:

Whoever shall not receive as sacred and canonical all these books and every part of them, as they are commonly read in the Catholic Church, and are contained in the old Vulgate Latin edition, or shall knowingly and deliberately despise the aforesaid traditions, let him be accursed.i

The Apocryphal books were not considered part of Scripture by the Bible compilers, because they clearly contradict Biblical truths, as can be seen in the following examples:
Clashing Canons - Catholic Scripture, Catholic Bible, Apocrypha,Vulgate & Protestant Bible

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

keras · Jan 15, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
The Apocrypha is based on mysticism and supposedly contains secret doctrines.

Obviously you have never read the Apocrypha.
I admit that some parts of it are suspect, but most is useful information and homilies. Maccabees is simply a historical record, so your dismissal of it shows a lack of discernment.

The 2 Books of Esdras, of Ezra the Prophet; contain all his Prophesies. There are none in the Bible Book of Ezra.

This thread is to refute the idea of the 2300 evening and morning Prophecy of Daniel 8:14 is for the end times.
That there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem, is perfectly clear from many Bible verses. Deniers of this truth are just trying to tell God what they think He wants.

Torah Keeper · Jan 15, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
The Apocrypha is based on mysticism and supposedly contains secret doctrines. At the Catholic Council of Trent, this was decreed:

Whoever shall not receive as sacred and canonical all these books and every part of them, as they are commonly read in the Catholic Church, and are contained in the old Vulgate Latin edition, or shall knowingly and deliberately despise the aforesaid traditions, let him be accursed.i

The Apocryphal books were not considered part of Scripture by the Bible compilers, because they clearly contradict Biblical truths, as can be seen in the following examples:
Clashing Canons - Catholic Scripture, Catholic Bible, Apocrypha,Vulgate & Protestant Bible

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Your very own founder Ellen White, was born and raised in a time when even the Protestants' beloved KJV contained the Apocrypha. Maccabees wasn't removed from the KJV until 1885. You can pick out any Book from the Bible that doesn't agree with your docrine. Luther wanted to remove the Book of James. Revelation was almost removed. Maccabees is history and it fulfills Daniel's 2300 prophecy. Only Ellen White followers believe judgment began in 1844.

Here is the truth: Nothing happened in 1844. There is no investigative judgment that started in 1844. Daniel's 2300 did not end in 1844. William Miller was wrong. Ellen White was wrong.

Torah Keeper · Jan 15, 2022

1 Maccabees 4:52-56 King James Version

52 Now on the five and twentieth day of the ninth month, which is called the month Chislev, in the hundred forty and eighth year, they rose up betimes in the morning, 53 and offered sacrifice according to the law upon the new altar of burnt offerings, which they had made. 54 Look, at what time and what day the heathen had profaned it, even in that was it dedicated with songs, and citherns, and harps, and cymbals. 55 Then all the people fell upon their faces, worshipping and praising the God of heaven, who had given them good success. 56 And so they kept the dedication of the altar eight days and offered burnt offerings with gladness, and sacrificed the sacrifice of deliverance and praise.

Why should we "Look, at what time and what day the heathen had profaned it,"?

Why would the writer put this? Count the days. Maccabees fulfilled Daniel's 2300 prophecy.

Now as for a possible future temple, we will see.

Original Happy Camper · Jan 16, 2022

Torah Keeper said:
Your very own founder Ellen White, was born and raised in a time when even the Protestants' beloved KJV contained the Apocrypha. Maccabees wasn't removed from the KJV until 1885. You can pick out any Book from the Bible that doesn't agree with your docrine. Luther wanted to remove the Book of James. Revelation was almost removed. Maccabees is history and it fulfills Daniel's 2300 prophecy. Only Ellen White followers believe judgment began in 1844.

Here is the truth: Nothing happened in 1844. There is no investigative judgment that started in 1844. Daniel's 2300 did not end in 1844. William Miller was wrong. Ellen White was wrong.

so when in your view does the 2300 day prophecy start and end?

Original Happy Camper · Jan 16, 2022

keras said:
That there will be a new Temple in Jerusalem,

The bible supports a temple in New Jerusalem which is the city of GOD in heaven. The ceremonial laws of the old testament were fulfilled by Jesus Christ at the cross. Jesus Christ is now our High Priest in the heavenly temple.

Psalm 77:12-13 King James Version
12 I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

Daniel 8:14
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Ezekiel 41 King James Version
23 And the temple and the sanctuary had two doors.

Psalm 11:4
The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

He is our Judge and is now judging all who ever lived and those that are living in preperation for his soon return.

Daniel 7:10
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Torah Keeper · Jan 16, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
so when in your view does the 2300 day prophecy start and end?

The 2300 Days

Reckoning the 2300 Days
Some scholars prefer 2,300 actual days, while others prefer 1,150 days, with two sacrifices per day, for a total of 2300 evening-morning sacrifices. Interestingly enough, there are good reasons for both periods:

2300 days (2300 daily sacrifices) - Starting on the fifteenth day of the month Cisleu, in the year 145 of the Selucidae (165 BC), Antiochus set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar (1 Maccabees 1:59), to the victory obtained over Nicanor by Judas, on the 13th day of the month Adar, Anno 151 (171 BC), are 2,300 days. The Jews kept an annual feast on the 13th of Adar, in commemoration of the victory.
1150 days (2300 morning and evening sacrifices) - Beginning with the desecration of the alter on the first day of the month Marchesvan, 168 BC. Ending with the reconsecration of the alter on the 25th day of Kislev, 165 BC.

Antiochus IV is the only person in all history that fulfills this prophecy in exact detail. My only possible disagreement with the above website I provided, is that Antiochus IV may actually have been Satan in the flesh. Therefore the verses of the little horn trampling the stars underfoot make sense either way. If the stars are angels, it is a reference to the war between angels and demons, and a prophecy of Christ's death (Prince of the host), but if these stars are Levitical priests, it is fulfilled either way.

The link I provided should be enough to convince any SDA that their interpretation of the 2,300 is wrong.

Blessings

Original Happy Camper · Jan 16, 2022

Torah Keeper said:
The 2300 Days

Reckoning the 2300 Days
Some scholars prefer 2,300 actual days, while others prefer 1,150 days, with two sacrifices per day, for a total of 2300 evening-morning sacrifices. Interestingly enough, there are good reasons for both periods:

2300 days (2300 daily sacrifices) - Starting on the fifteenth day of the month Cisleu, in the year 145 of the Selucidae (165 BC), Antiochus set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar (1 Maccabees 1:59), to the victory obtained over Nicanor by Judas, on the 13th day of the month Adar, Anno 151 (171 BC), are 2,300 days. The Jews kept an annual feast on the 13th of Adar, in commemoration of the victory.

1150 days (2300 morning and evening sacrifices) - Beginning with the desecration of the alter on the first day of the month Marchesvan, 168 BC. Ending with the reconsecration of the alter on the 25th day of Kislev, 165 BC.

Antiochus IV is the only person in all history that fulfills this prophecy in exact detail. My only possible disagreement with the above website I provided, is that Antiochus IV may actually have been Satan in the flesh. Therefore the verses of the little horn trampling the stars underfoot make sense either way. If the stars are angels, it is a reference to the war between angels and demons, and a prophecy of Christ's death (Prince of the host), but if these stars are Levitical priests, it is fulfilled either way.

The link I provided should be enough to convince any SDA that their interpretation of the 2,300 is wrong.

Blessings

if you interpert the 70 week prophecy as 490 years why would you change that standard in the 2300 day prophecy

The Day-Year Principle
Prophecies are couched in symbolic language that needs to be unraveled before the meaning of the words can be understood. Prophetic time is used as a symbol to be interpreted in the light of Scripture.

According to the number of the days in which you spied out the land, forty days, for each day you shall bear your guilt one year, namely forty years (Numbers 14:34 NKJV).

I have appointed thee each day for a year (Ezekiel 4:6).

These two texts provide the key—the day-year principle. This principle takes prophetic days and converts them to actual years. Applying this principle to the 70-week prophecy will show that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah.

The 70-Week Prophecy | Daniel 70 Weeks Prophecy

Torah Keeper · Jan 16, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
if you interpert the 70 week prophecy as 490 years why would you c

Because the day-year principle does not work with the 2300 "ereb-boker" prophecy. Please look at the following site:

The 2300 Days

Original Happy Camper · Jan 16, 2022

Torah Keeper said:
Because the day-year principle does not work with the 2300 "ereb-boker" prophecy. Please look at the following site:

The 2300 Days

so we change the day year principle in prophecy to fit our interpertation

day in prophecy represents a year in one prophecy it has to apply to all prophecies

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The day-year principle, year-day principle or year-for-a-day principle is a method of interpretation of Bible prophecy in which the word day in prophecy is considered to be symbolic of a year of actual time. It was the method used by most of the Reformers, and is used principally by the historicist school of prophetic interpretation.Wikipedia

keras · Jan 16, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
The bible supports a temple in New Jerusalem which is the city of GOD in heaven.

Actually God does not need a Temple in heaven. Revelation 21:22
He has a sanctuary, the one which Moses copied in the desert.

Why does anyone object to a new Temple in Jerusalem? Jesus will Return to it and reign from it, for the Millennium.
The Bible does support the Temple; first built by Solomon and again when the Jews returned from Babylon.
Many prophesies tell of and describe the new Temple to be built during the end times.

As for when the 2300 evenings and mornings happened, my op is indisputable. Anyone who says it belongs in the end times, is spreading falsehood and their beliefs are suspect.

Original Happy Camper · Jan 16, 2022

keras said:
As for when the 2300 evenings and mornings happened, my op is indisputable. Anyone who says it belongs in the end times, is spreading falsehood and their beliefs are suspect.

are you saying that your private interpertation of scripture is the accrurate one?

jgr · Jan 16, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
so we change the day year principle in prophecy to fit our interpertation

day in prophecy represents a year in one prophecy it has to apply to all prophecies

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

The day-year principle, year-day principle or year-for-a-day principle is a method of interpretation of Bible prophecy in which the word day in prophecy is considered to be symbolic of a year of actual time. It was the method used by most of the Reformers, and is used principally by the historicist school of prophetic interpretation.Wikipedia

Jesus Himself employed it.

Luke 13
31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

keras · Jan 16, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
are you saying that your private interpertation of scripture is the accrurate one?

The fact that you mis-spell interpretation, shows how well you do it.
I presented historical facts.
Does the written record of what happened in the past, not suit you?

jgr said:
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

Jesus was meaning 1000 year periods, in this prophecy. Because He will be in heaven. Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8
Proved by the 2000 years that has almost passed since His Advent and the 1000 years of His Millennium reign to come.

Original Happy Camper · Jan 16, 2022

keras said:
Proved by the 2000 years that has almost passed since His Advent and the 1000 years of His Millennium reign to come.

so you subscribe to the cosmic week

6000 years since creation + 1000 year millennium =cosmic week of 7000 years

is that correct?

keras · Jan 17, 2022

Original Happy Camper said:
so you subscribe to the cosmic week

6000 years since creation + 1000 year millennium =cosmic week of 7000 years

is that correct?

I don't call the 7000 year period decreed by God for mankind; cosmic.
It is simply the time God has allowed for mortal beings to live on the earth prepared for them.
Proved by the exact 2000 year tranches; Adam the Abram, Abraham to Jesus, and now 1991 years since Jesus.
The final 1000 years will be the Millennium reign of Jesus; on earth.

Have you shown my OP to your SDA pastor yet?

Original Happy Camper · Jan 17, 2022

keras said:
Millennium reign of Jesus; on earth.

Have you shown my OP to your SDA pastor yet?

Jesus reign is in heaven not on this earth

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

No I have not shared it and I will not as it has non biblical content

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The Desecration of the Second Temple

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Well-Known Member

Jesus I Trust In You

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

Well-Known Member

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

Well-Known Member

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

Well-Known Member

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

One of GODS Children I am a historicist

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