WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

Christian7777777 said:

His commandments is ONE, don't you know it yet?


John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

2 John 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.


Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

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Love is not separate to God's law. Love is expressed through obedience to Gods' law which is why Jesus says on these two commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40. Paul agrees with Jesus in Romans 13:8-10 when he says that we show our love to our fellow man by keeping those laws in Gods' commandments that show us our duty of love to our neighbor (Exodus 20:12-17). James also agrees with Jesus and Paul in James 2:8-12 when he says if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of breaking all of them. While John also agrees in 1 John 5:2-3 that we need to be born of God to love and walk in His Spirit which is Gods' new covenant promise in all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9; Galatians 5:16; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. No one loves God therefore by breaking God's law and not believing and following what Gods' Word says. Those are the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:6-10.

Take Care

Christian7777777 said:

Sin cannot be kept away from by Israels examples ( failure example) of being under a curse by not continuing in all the things of the law, to do them.

Christ has redeemed us from that law, by believing in Him risen, that is faith, and to not believe in that, that is sin.

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No one is redeemed from the law by breaking the law. All the law does is give us a knowledge of what sin is *Romans 7:7 which is the transgression of the law *1 John 3:4 and not believing and following what Gods' Word says (Romans 14:23).

Christian7777777 said:

Romans 8 is being freed from following the words of law.



Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



Galatians 5 also is being freed form the law, to walk in the Spirit...



Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.



Romans 3 also establishes the law of faith by taking away the law ( keeping and breaking) of sin



Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.


John 3 speaks of born again, and born again as described in 1 Peter is our faith in God that RAISED UP JESUS FROM THE DEAD..



1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.




1 John again is about the hope in believing in Christ ( faith and no hope or faith in law) to do righteousness is only by those born of God ( who believe in faith in God raising Christ from the dead)



1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.




Acts 5, speaks of obeying Christ, yet it is obedience of faith, not obedience of law ( the law sadly is not of faith)




Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

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According to the scriptures no one is freed from the law in order to break Gods' law. That is sin according to the scriptures (1 John 3:4). We are freed from sin which is the transgression of the law and not believing and following what Gods' Word says (Romans 14:23; Romans 6:1-23).

Christian7777777 said:

Believers do not believe in imperfection ( that is the believers in law which made nothing perfect, but we draw nigh to God by Christ which is the perfection)


Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

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Hebrews 7 is talking about the law of the Priesthood and God's laws for remission of sins under the old covenant. Not God's 10 commandments.

Christian7777777 said:

Sin is disbelief in Christs rising from the dead, not seeking to be justified by the law, ( that would be our own righteousness) and falling from grace is for anyone who seeks to be justified by law.



Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; YE ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.



Sin is for those who seek to be justified by the law ( and are fallen from grace then) but to be without sin is to believe in the hope of Christ, as told..



1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.



Also the ones who fall away, of course are the ones fallen from grace ( who seek to be justified by the law)


Hebrews 6:6, If THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, ( fallen from grace) to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

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Once again, no one is telling you that you need to be justified by the law so why keep saying things no one is talking about? According to the scriptures repentance is to be sorry for and turn away from sin (see Acts of the Apostles 2:38 and Acts of the Apostles 3:19). It is sin that must be repented of. Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments and not believing and following what Gods' Word says (1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23). "Departing the faith" means we return to unbelief and sin (Hebrews 10:26-31). Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking Gods' law and not believing and following what Gods' Word says (1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 14:23). Departing the faith means that we no longer believe Gods' Word and the scripture is fulfilled whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Romans 14:23). Hebrews 6:6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Take Care

Christian7777777 said:

Departing the faith, is when men choose law ( which is not of FAITH)

Easy to understand, because it is told, and fulfilled in the very ones who do this, as told below for them to remember..


1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

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There is nothing in any scripture you have provided here that says "Departing the faith, is when men choose law" According to the scriptures, "departing the faith" is when men seek sin, disobedience and unbelief in preference to faith and believing and following what Gods' Word says (John 3:36; Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4).

Take Care

Christian7777777 said:

Faith and law are two opposing things, the law is not of faith.


Why else is a predicted doctrines of devils, COMMANDING TO ABSTAIN/FORBIDDING OTHER ?


IF THAT DOES NOT SHOUT LOUD FOR PEOPLE THAT THE DEVILS DOCTRINE IS LAW DOCTRINE, WHAT ELSE CAN DO ?


Avoid these teachers is told, not to debate with them ?

They are revealed, nothing more needs to be done, but to AVOID THOSE WHO CAUSES DIVISIONS AND OFFENCES CONTRARY TO THE FAITH...


Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

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According to the scriptures, the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil is SIN (not law). God's children are obedient to Gods' law through faith. The children of the devil are not obedient to Gods law but disobedient to Gods' law by breaking Gods' law practicing sin which is the transgression of Gods' law *1 John 3:4 and not believing and following what God's Word says *Romans 14:23. Jesus says unless you are born again you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven in John 3:3-7. Those who are born again according to John do not practice sin (breaking God's law) they are obedient to it.

1 John 3:6-10
[6], Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. [7], Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[8], He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Revelation 12:17 [17], And the dragon (devil) was wroth with the woman (Gods Church), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 [12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 [14], Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

No one therefore is a child of God by breaking God's law. According to the scriptures shown above these are all the children of the devil.

1 John 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4], He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

God's Word does not teach us to be disobedient to Gods' Word. That is what we are warned against and is called "sin and unbelief".

Take Care.

FreeGrace2 said:

This doesn't matter at all. In fact, it is totally irrelevant that you "disagree".

The FACTS have been presented. You based your claim that salvation can be lost on verses that you believe teach it, even though NONE of them spefically mention either salvation or "lose".

I have presented verses that in very plain words teach eternal security. Yet, you think your opinion of your verses somehow trump or refute my very plainly worded verses.

Until and UNLESS you actually address the verses I've shared and provide a rational explanation of HOW and WHY they teach something other than eternal security, I will always reject your claims.

You can begin with post #491 where I noted all the relevant verses.

I am especially interested in how you explain 1 Peter 1:23.

So, at this point, until you actually address the verses I have shared, there is no reason to continue this discussion. You are not yet ready to tackle the truth.

If you actually had the truth, it should be easy to explain the verses I have shared to show they teach something else. And what they teach.

But you haven't even tried to. All you've done is claim your verses teach loss of salvation, so therefore, mine can't be. That's not even a defense. It's just an excuse to not deal with the verses I've been sharing.

When Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall NEVER perish, He wasn't kidding. Not one bit.

But you believe, and totally without any evidence, that a former believer loses eternal life.

In direct contradiction to what Jesus clearly taught.

I do not accept ideas from those who are in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught.

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Of course it is relevant. Here you left out the rest of the post you are quoting from showing from the scriptures why I disagree. As posted earlier, your post did not address anything in the post you were responding to. According to the scriptures, we have the promise of eternal life today the moment we believe Gods' Word (believing). Therefore we receive the hope of eternal life today through Gods promise in John 5:24 by "believing and following Gods' Word" and the fulfillment of Gods' promise of eternal life when our time on earth is over or at the second coming (scripture support here).

God's salvation according to the scriptures is therefore "conditional" linked on believing and following what Gods' Word says to the end. If we are no longer "believing" then we have departed the faith and eternal life that we receive which is conditional to "believing and following" Gods' Word to the end. Sorry dear friend but as shown through the scriptures shared with you already, and also demonstrated in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31 I believe your teachings are not biblical so we might have to agree to disagree here. If no one could depart the faith (stop believing) we would not be warned against it.

If someone has departed the faith they are no longer believing but have become unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. It is written in John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. John 3:36 [36], He that believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (G4100 πιστεύων = believing not) the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God stays on him.

Every scripture you have provided are to Gods' people that are "believing" not those who once believed yesterday, "departed the faith" today to become "unbelievers". Those who shall "NEVER PERISH" according to the scriptures, therefore are all those who continue "believing" to the very end. They are "believers" (present tense), not unbelievers or someone that believed yesterday but has chosen to "depart the faith" and no longer believes today (Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:27-31).

Take Care.

Danthemailman said:

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats sounds very familiar from the church I was raised in. In regards to men choosing law, what I witness a lot is men trying to "mix" law and grace and the end result is "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

Matthew 9:16 - No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and the tear is made worse. 17 Nor do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the wineskins break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.

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I am wondering why this is even posted when no one believes what you are saying here (being saved by the works of law) but let's be clear so there is no misunderstandings.

According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins. According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law therefore is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Therefore says Jesus you shall know them (who is from God and who is not) by their fruit. *Matthew 7:16-20; John 15:1-6; 1 John 2:3-4. Anything else according to James in James 2:17-26 is the dead faith of devils.

Now what it is here that you are in disagreement with and if we are in agreement then what is your argument? - You have none because we are in agreement.

Take Care