Shadow of the mark

robycop3 said:

. So it shall be with the beast/antichrist, & lead many people to believe his claim to be God.

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Not today. At least not in western culture. Too many people with healthy skepticism.

robycop3 said:

Apparently He WILL.

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I've added trail mix to my popcorn.

Should be quite a spectacle.

robycop3 said:

No, that was part of the "days of vengeance". The AOD will be when the beast enters the temple & proclaims himself God. The pattern for this was set in the 160s BC when Antiochus Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus in the temple & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. That was the AOD mentioned by Daniel.

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Not according to Luke 21:20.

Scripture interpreting Scripture. A concept alien to futurist fantasy.

The abomination of desolation in Daniel 9 is the same abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 and Luke 21.

The Roman armies.

myst33 said:

It could work in the ancient Rome, when the concept of deity was pagan.

In Christian/muslim/jewish culture, the concept of God is trancendent above our reality and very different from some miraculous survival of head injury, you should know that. And in buddhist/hinduist/shintoist culture they have many gods so they would not care too much about such claims.
And there is probably no need to even mention atheists.

Your expectations simply do not fit our todays world/culture.

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Think about this-We know the bullet that killed JFK blew out about a quarter of his brain. Had he survived & recovered from that, whe world woulda marveled, with many saying JFK was more-than-human. So, until something like that happens, we don't know how the world will react.

jgr said:

I've added trail mix to my popcorn.

Should be quite a spectacle.



Not according to Luke 21:20.

Scripture interpreting Scripture. A concept alien to futurist fantasy.

The abomination of desolation in Daniel 9 is the same abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 and Luke 21.

The Roman armies.

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You should add some "instant comprehension" to it. THAT desolation was of Jerusalem, not the ABOMINATION of desolation.

The word 'desolation' appears 54 times in the NKJV, & usually means a state of complete destruction, which Jerusalem became.

Daniel 11:31And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

The AOD is to be PLACED, so it must be the beast's statue.

Daniel 12:11“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So it's to be SET UP.

Matt. 24:15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

And it's STANDING.

Therefore, the main part of the AOD will be the beast's statue of Rev. 13, which the false prophet will supernaturally make speak, making people marvel, (If it were to be done electronically, no one would marvel) while the beast declares himself to be God. We see that sacrifices will be offered once more in the new temple til the beast stops them. That's the likely scenario.

Hammster said:

Let me get this straight. One of the heads of the beast is wounded in a way that appears mortal, and you are convinced that it’s literal?

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Sure. Otherwise, why would anyone marvel?

Poland was completely smashed in WW2 by the Nazis & Russians, but no one marveled when it was restored. Thus, if part of the beast's empire was destroyed, no one would marvel if it was restored.

Hammster said:

You want the beast to NOT be literal, but the would to be literal. But you can’t give a reason why one is literal, and the other isn’t.

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I on't quite understand what you're getting at here. The beast WILL be literal. You even admit as much in your incorrect assumption that Nero, who was literal, was the beast. The AOD will be literal, an occupation of the coming temple by the beast, who will have the statue of himself set up in it, the statue the false prophet will tell the people to make. And the beast will receive a literal head wound before this, which he will survive.

robycop3 said:

You should add some "instant comprehension" to it. THAT desolation was of Jerusalem, not the ABOMINATION of desolation.

The word 'desolation' appears 54 times in the NKJV, & usually means a state of complete destruction, which Jerusalem became.

Daniel 11:31And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

The AOD is to be PLACED, so it must be the beast's statue.

Daniel 12:11“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So it's to be SET UP.

Matt. 24:15“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

And it's STANDING.

Therefore, the main part of the AOD will be the beast's statue of Rev. 13, which the false prophet will supernaturally make speak, making people marvel, (If it were to be done electronically, no one would marvel) while the beast declares himself to be God. We see that sacrifices will be offered once more in the new temple til the beast stops them. That's the likely scenario.

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Why are you ignoring Luke 21:20?

robycop3 said:

OK, then, what sanctuary do YOU suppose the beast will enter to proclaim himself God?

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It never says anything about the beast entering a sanctuary.

I assume you're referring to 2 Thess 2 and "the man of sin"? The phrase "the man of sin" is used to refer to sinful people in general just like "the man of God" refers generally to God's people in this verse:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Clearly, this is not referring to an individual "man of God", right? It obviously refers to God's people in general being made "perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works".

Paul referred to the temple of God in other verses in two ways. One was in relation to an individual's body (1 Cor 3:16). The other was in relation to the corporate body of Christ, which is the church (2 Cor 6:16, Eph 2:19-22). You can't just ignore that. You need to interpret scripture with scripture to see what Paul's understanding of the temple of God was instead of going by what you think it should be.

In 2 Thess 2:1-4 Paul talks about a mass falling away from the faith that will occur before the second coming of Christ. The revealing of the man of sin is directly related to the falling away. It is the falling away that reveals the man of sin because people who once were part of the church will have fallen away after deciding they don't need God/Christ anymore, thereby essentially making themselves God instead. Their apostasy will be evident to true believers and will reveal them as being people whose desire is to sin rather than obey God.

Hammster said:

Let me get this straight. One of the heads of the beast is wounded in a way that appears mortal, and you are convinced that it’s literal?

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Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. If the heads of the beast were literal heads (they're not) then the beast would need to be a literal beast as well. It looks like he didn't think about that.

Hammster said:

Convenience?

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Indoctrination. Or more accurately, indogmanation.

robycop3 said:

Think about this-We know the bullet that killed JFK blew out about a quarter of his brain. Had he survived & recovered from that, whe world woulda marveled, with many saying JFK was more-than-human. So, until something like that happens, we don't know how the world will react.

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So are you saying JFK could be the beast once technology reaches the point where JFK can be cloned from his DNA? If so something is going to have to go wrong in the cloning process to make him look like a leopard with feet like a bear and a mouth like a lion!


No offense, I just had to throw this in.

robycop3 said:

Think about this-We know the bullet that killed JFK blew out about a quarter of his brain. Had he survived & recovered from that, whe world woulda marveled, with many saying JFK was more-than-human. So, until something like that happens, we don't know how the world will react.

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Certainly not by saying he is God.

Much more probably by not believing the attack was real. People do not believe things just because they are on a video. We do not live in a culture in which gods interact with people (supposedly) on quite a common basis like in Greece/Rome.

Hammster said:

Does it literally have to happen that way? Or is there imagery in those verses?

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Sounds normal to land feet first when descending from the heavens.

myst33 said:

Jesus said that some of His generation will still be alive, He did not use the term "soon". He said that in around 30 AD.

The book of Revelation said the things written in it will happen soon. It was written later after Jesus, in 60's AD.

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John is alive, when he will write it down.

Timtofly said:

John is alive, when he will write it down.

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Yes, the author of the book of Revelation was alive when he wrote the prophecies down. I am not sure what your point is.

Timtofly said:

Sounds normal to land feet first when descending from the heavens.

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Happens all the time.