Is the church on earth during the tribulation

Timtofly

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The thing is like I pointed out in another post, we aren't privy to every discussion or teaching that went on. We are only given samples, etc enough that the Father preserved for us. So we have 0 way of knowing what everything they were taught. But we are privy to the fact that they were indeed taught that Christ returns at the last trump. Which of course we know ourselves is the 7th trump. But it doesn't take away from that fact that the last trump is the 7th.

And what exactly your point about Paul's teachings? He taught that Christ returns at the last trump. By even bringing up that he comes at the last trump, we can assume that there was teachings on the trumps. Again, we are only given Paul's letters. Not his actual teachings within the crowds in person. I'm sure many questions were asked. Why would Paul even bring up "last trump"? Since he does bring up the word "last" I think we can safely assume that the people knew there were more than one. Why would Paul confuse them on this?

Revelation (to reveal) gives us the entire complete picture but to say that no knowledge of the trumps were known before then is a reach.
Did Gabriel blow a trumpet at the birth of Christ? That would be the first Trumpet. The Second Coming would be the second or last Trumpet. That would be the only two times Gabriel would fulfill the message he gave to Daniel in Daniel 9. We know Gabriel talked to Mary and Joseph. Paul could be referring to Gabriel as the archangel with the Trump of God.

But the Trumpets are used to call Israel to assembly. The church is addressed by the Seals. So is Paul only talking about Israel, or the church? When Christ returns He is coming to rescue Jerusalem, but the church is taken out in the process. The church remains in Paradise, while Jesus deals with Israel in the Trumpets. Gabriel could have sounded the Trumpet at the Second Coming, but the last sounding is for the completion of the final Harvest, after the Tribulation is over. The 7th Trumpet lasts for a whole week. It is the celebration Trumpet. Paul's rapture is an instant, not a week long event. Revelation 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Daniel 9:27 is a week of days. The 7th Trumpet is the week of Jesus Christ the Prince confirming the Atonement Covenant for a week of days. This is still a future event. Is Paul saying this last Trumpet is the end of all things? That is what John tells us in Revelation. The Great Tribulation, the final harvest is over before this 7th Trumpet even starts. The 7th Trumpet brings those 70 weeks to a close. Matthew 13 and the parable of the final harvest has Jesus and the angels already on the earth. So either the rapture happens when Jesus arrives, or the rapture happens months after Jesus arrives and the final harvest has already been completed.

Gabriel could sound the Trumpet at the arrival in the 6th Seal, but the 7th sounding is the celebration of a completed final harvest. A harvest Jesus and the angels were present on earth for. Matthew 13:38-43

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 
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Jamdoc

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The thing is like I pointed out in another post, we aren't privy to every discussion or teaching that went on. We are only given samples, etc enough that the Father preserved for us. So we have 0 way of knowing what everything they were taught. But we are privy to the fact that they were indeed taught that Christ returns at the last trump. Which of course we know ourselves is the 7th trump. But it doesn't take away from that fact that the last trump is the 7th.

And what exactly your point about Paul's teachings? He taught that Christ returns at the last trump. By even bringing up that he comes at the last trump, we can assume that there was teachings on the trumps. Again, we are only given Paul's letters. Not his actual teachings within the crowds in person. I'm sure many questions were asked. Why would Paul even bring up "last trump"? Since he does bring up the word "last" I think we can safely assume that the people knew there were more than one. Why would Paul confuse them on this?

Revelation (to reveal) gives us the entire complete picture but to say that no knowledge of the trumps were known before then is a reach.

I don't think Paul was at all referring to Revelation. The types of trumpets used in Revelation were not calls to assembly, they were pronouncing judgements. Completely different context.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I don't think Paul was at all referring to Revelation. The types of trumpets used in Revelation were not calls to assembly, they were pronouncing judgements. Completely different context.
The last trumpet that Paul referenced and the seventh trumpet that John referenced are both calls to assembly and pronouncements of judgment.

Christ will return at the last trumpet and scripture is quite clear that He will be gathering His own to Himself as well as taking vengeance on His enemies at that time (1 Thess 4:13-5:6, 2 Thess 1:7-10).

At the seventh trumpet it will not only be the time of God's final wrath and the time for "destroying those who destroy the earth", but it will also be the time "for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small" (Rev 11:18). It seems to me that His people would be called to assembly first before being rewarded.

In what sense is the last trumpet the LAST trumpet except for it being the last prophetic trumpet to sound? I don't see any other sense that it should be understood. And, while Paul wasn't directly referencing the book of Revelation since that hadn't been written yet, it shouldn't be that hard to discern that the seventh trumpet of Revelation corresponds with the last trumpet Paul described in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.

The seventh trumpet will be the last prophetic trumpet to sound and, again, I see no other way to understand in what sense the last trumpet will be the LAST trumpet except that it will be the last prophetic trumpet to sound.
 
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Jamdoc

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The last trumpet that Paul referenced and the seventh trumpet that John referenced are both calls to assembly and pronouncements of judgment.

Christ will return at the last trumpet and scripture is quite clear that He will be gathering His own to Himself as well as taking vengeance on His enemies at that time (1 Thess 4:13-5:6, 2 Thess 1:7-10).

At the seventh trumpet it will not only be the time of God's final wrath and the time for "destroying those who destroy the earth", but it will also be the time "for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small" (Rev 11:18). It seems to me that His people would be called to assembly first before being rewarded.

In what sense is the last trumpet the LAST trumpet except for it being the last prophetic trumpet to sound? I don't see any other sense that it should be understood. And, while Paul wasn't directly referencing the book of Revelation since that hadn't been written yet, it shouldn't be that hard to discern that the seventh trumpet of Revelation corresponds with the last trumpet Paul described in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.

The seventh trumpet will be the last prophetic trumpet to sound and, again, I see no other way to understand in what sense the last trumpet will be the LAST trumpet except that it will be the last prophetic trumpet to sound.

He already gathered them before the wrath of God.

again you have the contradiction, where Jesus appears once just before the wrath of God, and once at the end of the wrath of God.
you try to say they are the same thing
that fails.

Explain how Revelation 14 and Revelation 16:15 are the same thing. One coming before the wrath of God, one coming at the end.
There's no wiggle room where you can claim that the vials are not the wrath of God they're tribulation or any such nonsense.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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He already gathered them before the wrath of God.

again you have the contradiction, where Jesus appears once just before the wrath of God, and once at the end of the wrath of God.
you try to say they are the same thing
that fails.
No, it doesn't. It's exactly what is portrayed in passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:6 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

Explain how Revelation 14 and Revelation 16:15 are the same thing. One coming before the wrath of God, one coming at the end.
There's no wiggle room where you can claim that the vials are not the wrath of God they're tribulation or any such nonsense.
What are you talking about here? How are you coming to the conclusion that one of those verses has Him coming before the wrath of God and one coming at the end? When He comes, we will be caught up to Him in the air and then He will deliver the final wrath of God upon all living unbelievers at that time. That is what is portrayed in passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:6 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. Why do you not interpret Revelation in light of more clear scripture? Instead, you do it the other way around.
 
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DavidPT

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Because you, and pre trib.. don't understand the difference between Tribulation, and God's Wrath.
Jesus says the Great Tribulation ends when the sun and moon go dark, that is the 6th seal.
Anything after the 6th seal, is by Jesus' definition not Tribulation.
Because it's something else.


The wrath of satan is during the tribulation. The wrath of God is after the tribulation. The 7th trumpet is during the 6th seal. That means the other 6 trumpets have to precede the 6th seal.

Do you or do you not agree that the 42 month reign of the beast is meaning the same great tribulation recorded in Matthew 24:21? Where does Matthew 24 chronologically place verse 21? Before the 6th seal? Or after/during the 6th seal?

When is the 42 month reign of the beast meaning in relation to the 2Ws testifying? When are the 2Ws testifying and conclude their testimonies? Before any trumpets ever sound? Or during the trumpets?
 
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DavidPT

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I think you went off the rails there trying too hard.

The contradiction is in Revelation 14 vs Revelation 16.
In Revelation 14 Jesus is in the clouds just prior to the wrath of God.
in Revelation 16 Jesus is coming at the end of the wrath of God.

if it is a singlular appearance.
then which is it? and do we declare the other scripture to be wrong?


Jesus is not in the clouds in Revelation 14. That would mean, if true, that Jesus is taking orders from angels rather than angels taking orders from Him. It also contradicts Matthew 13. That chapter says the angels are the reapers, and that it is Jesus who sends them to do this.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;


If the following is meaning Jesus, I guess this means Jesus lied to us in the above verses in that case.

Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Verse 14 is a simile since it uses the words 'like unto'. When Jesus is called Son of man elsewhere in the NT, a simile is never used since it is meaning Him as the Son of man.
 
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Timtofly

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The wrath of satan is during the tribulation. The wrath of God is after the tribulation. The 7th trumpet is during the 6th seal. That means the other 6 trumpets have to precede the 6th seal.

Do you or do you not agree that the 42 month reign of the beast is meaning the same great tribulation recorded in Matthew 24:21? Where does Matthew 24 chronologically place verse 21? Before the 6th seal? Or after/during the 6th seal?

When is the 42 month reign of the beast meaning in relation to the 2Ws testifying? When are the 2Ws testifying and conclude their testimonies? Before any trumpets ever sound? Or during the trumpets?
This is what happens when people start playing guessing games with the chronology of Revelation. It will happen in the order John described. He was not a blind witness, nor a guessing the order witness. John was shown exactly when the Second Coming would happen. Back in the ministry of Jesus, Jesus claimed no one knew, not even Him.

Now John may have not asked what year it was when the first Seal was opened, and was never told. But John did not bounce around in his own writings. He witnessed them and wrote them down in the order they happened. He delivered the letters much later than 30AD.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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This is what happens when people start playing guessing games with the chronology of Revelation. It will happen in the order John described.
He wrote Revelation 11:15-19 before Revelation 12:5, so that means you believe that the seventh trumpet sounded before Christ was born and before He ascended to heaven? Interesting.
 
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DavidPT

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This is what happens when people start playing guessing games with the chronology of Revelation. It will happen in the order John described. He was not a blind witness, nor a guessing the order witness. John was shown exactly when the Second Coming would happen. Back in the ministry of Jesus, Jesus claimed no one knew, not even Him.

Now John may have not asked what year it was when the first Seal was opened, and was never told. But John did not bounce around in his own writings. He witnessed them and wrote them down in the order they happened. He delivered the letters much later than 30AD.


For the most part Matthew 24 gives us the correct chronology of events. First there is great tribulation, then that is immediately followed by the stars falling from heaven, where that is eventually followed by the coming meant in Matthew 24:30. One can't have the chronology of events recorded in in Revelation contradicting the chronology of events recorded in Matthew 24 if these accounts are referring to some of the same events.
 
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Jamdoc

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Jesus is not in the clouds in Revelation 14. That would mean, if true, that Jesus is taking orders from angels rather than angels taking orders from Him. It also contradicts Matthew 13. That chapter says the angels are the reapers, and that it is Jesus who sends them to do this.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;


If the following is meaning Jesus, I guess this means Jesus lied to us in the above verses in that case.

Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Verse 14 is a simile since it uses the words 'like unto'. When Jesus is called Son of man elsewhere in the NT, a simile is never used since it is meaning Him as the Son of man.

It's referring back to Daniel 7's use of language

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

the reason why Jesus used this title is to signify that He is that person, spoken of by Daniel.

I just take it that the "order" is coming from God the Father. The Angel is delivering the message.
but it is Jesus.
 
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Jamdoc

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No, it doesn't. It's exactly what is portrayed in passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:6 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

What are you talking about here? How are you coming to the conclusion that one of those verses has Him coming before the wrath of God and one coming at the end? When He comes, we will be caught up to Him in the air and then He will deliver the final wrath of God upon all living unbelievers at that time. That is what is portrayed in passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:6 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. Why do you not interpret Revelation in light of more clear scripture? Instead, you do it the other way around.

the bible works through progressive Revelation.
Revelation is the final step and is a clearing house for most other prophecy in the book, and puts things in context where as previous revelation things were not in context.

Jesus is in the clouds in Revelation 14, and it precedes the wrath of God, because an Angel warns people about the wrath of God if they take the mark, and it is after Jesus does His harvest that the angel does their harvest and puts them through the wrath of God.
You don't warn about something that already happened.
 
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Jamdoc

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The wrath of satan is during the tribulation. The wrath of God is after the tribulation. The 7th trumpet is during the 6th seal. That means the other 6 trumpets have to precede the 6th seal.

Do you or do you not agree that the 42 month reign of the beast is meaning the same great tribulation recorded in Matthew 24:21? Where does Matthew 24 chronologically place verse 21? Before the 6th seal? Or after/during the 6th seal?

When is the 42 month reign of the beast meaning in relation to the 2Ws testifying? When are the 2Ws testifying and conclude their testimonies? Before any trumpets ever sound? Or during the trumpets?

The 7 trumpets are not tribulation, they're the wrath of God.
Tribulation is actions caused by men, the first 5 seals
All of the trumpets involve supernatural actions, and only the 6th trumpet can arguably possibly have any component caused by men if you see the 200 million strong army as men rather than demons, and I've heard both.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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the bible works through progressive Revelation.
It does? Can you point me to the verses in the Bible itself which teach that or is that just something you came up with on your own?

Revelation is the final step and is a clearing house for most other prophecy in the book, and puts things in context where as previous revelation things were not in context.
Where are you getting this idea from and what does it mean exactly? Can you give me any examples of this?

Jesus is in the clouds in Revelation 14, and it precedes the wrath of God, because an Angel warns people about the wrath of God if they take the mark, and it is after Jesus does His harvest that the angel does their harvest and puts them through the wrath of God.
We all believe that the harvest (rapture or whatever you want to call it) occurs first before the final wrath of God comes down. The final wrath of God is clearly what Revelation 14 is portraying. It talks about it as the great winepress of God's wrath just like it does in Revelation 19. It gives the impression that His wrath comes down just after the harvest occurs and that is the same thing that Paul wrote about in passages like 1 Thess 4:13-5:6 and 2 Thess 1:7-10.

You don't warn about something that already happened.
What are you talking about?
 
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Jamdoc

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It does? Can you point me to the verses in the Bible itself which teach that or is that just something you came up with on your own?

Really? Jesus wasn't progressively revealed from the first time He's alluded to in Genesis 3?

Where are you getting this idea from and what does it mean exactly? Can you give me any examples of this?
It means that Revelation refers back to many old testament prophecies, and puts them in Chronology rather than the assumption (such as you still hold) that they all happen simultaneously in a single day.

You and others are doing the same mistake as many people during Jesus' time did. because books like Isaiah gave no time between the first and second coming they assumed it was just a single coming of Messiah and it all happened at once.

We all believe that the harvest (rapture or whatever you want to call it) occurs first before the final wrath of God comes down. The final wrath of God is clearly what Revelation 14 is portraying. It talks about it as the great winepress of God's wrath just like it does in Revelation 19. It gives the impression that His wrath comes down just after the harvest occurs and that is the same thing that Paul wrote about in passages like 1 Thess 4:13-5:6 and 2 Thess 1:7-10.

What are you talking about?

Revelation 16:1 says the vials are the wrath of God, and Revelation 15 specifies that they are the 7 last plagues.
LAST plagues.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Really? Jesus wasn't progressively revealed from the first time He's alluded to in Genesis 3?
Sure, but you weren't specific as to what you meant exactly. You seem to think they are things revealed in the book of Revelation that aren't revealed elsewhere in scripture. Is that correct or am I just not understanding your point here?

It means that Revelation refers back to many old testament prophecies, and puts them in Chronology rather than the assumption (such as you still hold) that they all happen simultaneously in a single day.
Do you always exaggerate like this? You're acting like I believe everything written in the book happens in a single day which I certainly do not believe.

You and others are doing the same mistake as many people during Jesus' time did. because books like Isaiah gave no time between the first and second coming they assumed it was just a single coming of Messiah and it all happened at once.
That is not true at all. Scripture does not teach that Jesus will descend from heaven more than once in the future (as pre-tribs and midtribs believe - I can't remember if you believe that - maybe not) nor does it teach that He will descend from heaven and just hang out up in the air for years before coming to the earth (I think that's what you believe - correct me if I'm wrong).

Revelation 16:1 says the vials are the wrath of God, and Revelation 15 specifies that they are the 7 last plagues.
LAST plagues.
Yeah, so? Are you suggesting that you think all the vials of God's wrath occur after the wrath described in Revelation 14 occurs? If so, I completely disagree with that. The wrath described in Revelation 14 is the final wrath the will occur at the return of Christ. It's described as the winepress of God's wrath juts like in Revelation 19. Those are parallel passages. While, unlike most other Premils, you do see parallels in the book, you're still not seeing all of them.
 
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Jamdoc

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Sure, but you weren't specific as to what you meant exactly. You seem to think they are things revealed in the book of Revelation that aren't revealed elsewhere in scripture. Is that correct or am I just not understanding your point here?

There's new details within Revelation, such as the mark of the beast, just as throughout the bible, since Genesis 3, more and more details about the Messiah are revealed.
You can go back to Genesis 3 and see that this is the first mention of Jesus... but you can't deny that we get a clearer and clearer picture of who Jesus is through the bible as it progresses, and ultimately, Revelation is the clearest picture of who Jesus is that we get in scripture, Amen?

Do you always exaggerate like this? You're acting like I believe everything written in the book happens in a single day which I certainly do not believe.

You believe the wrath of God is a single day, and you don't want to acknowledge that the other events such as the trumpets and vials are the wrath of God, and even when you do, you want to see timing markers such as the 5 months of the 5th trumpet as being symbollic and not a literal 5 months.

That is not true at all. Scripture does not teach that Jesus will descend from heaven more than once in the future (as pre-tribs and midtribs believe - I can't remember if you believe that - maybe not) nor does it teach that He will descend from heaven and just hang out up in the air for years before coming to the earth (I think that's what you believe - correct me if I'm wrong).

Revelation seems to teach that somehow, Jesus comes both before the wrath of God, and at the end of the wrath of God. Again, clearer picture.
The first and second coming were not clear in books like Isaiah. You can find it perhaps, but it's kind of veiled, scholars assumed a single coming of Messiah based on Messianic prophecy in the Old Testament.

Now I'm not sure if Jesus descends, takes us with Him to heaven, then returns, as pretrib, mid trib, and most pre-wrath would believe
or if I believe He just hangs out on the clouds for years as you're saying, I mean .. maybe? But not necessarily what I believe.
The other option is that He does touch down after the rapture after appearing in the clouds, and Joel Richardson has an interesting take where there's a "second exodus" of Jews that fled into the wilderness when the Great Tribulation began, some are in captivity, and others in hiding, and Jesus leads them back to Zion. The compelling piece of evidence for this is Isaiah 63, where Isaiah sees Jesus coming FROM Bozrah already with His clothes stained in blood.
It's one of the compelling sections of scripture for timing as well as Jesus uses both day and year interchangably.

Isaiah 63
1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.
6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.

So yeah.. I find these details compelling... that Jesus is on the ground coming from the direction of Jordan, His clothes already stained in blood as they are in Revelation 19, and most curious and most compelling.... He is alone. The saints are not with Him. This is a strange detail in that most second coming mentions involve Jesus arriving with angels and all the saints.

I guess if I were to really piece together what I believe....
6th seal return in the clouds of Jesus, the rapture of the saints to heaven, and then Jesus is on the ground, splits the Mount of Olives, and then, while the saints are in Heaven, the wrath of God is poured out as Jesus Himself goes on a campaign to liberate and lead back the Remnant of Israel back from captivity/hiding across Jordan. Then when He reaches Armageddon, at the end of the wrath of God, the saints come back down from Heaven and are with Jesus.. He defeats all His enemies gathered against Him , and then begins ruling in Jerusalem.
This would mean it is a single second coming, but there is both Jesus appearing at the 6th seal before the wrath of God, and returning to Jerusalem at the end of the wrath of God, with Jesus being on the ground alone treading the winepress along the way in between.

I'm not holding that as dogma though.
What I do hold as dogma is that Jesus is both shown before the wrath of God, and at the end of the wrath of God, in 2 different events. The first being the rapture, the second being Armageddon.

Yeah, so? Are you suggesting that you think all the vials of God's wrath occur after the wrath described in Revelation 14 occurs? If so, I completely disagree with that. The wrath described in Revelation 14 is the final wrath the will occur at the return of Christ. It's described as the winepress of God's wrath juts like in Revelation 19. Those are parallel passages. While, unlike most other Premils, you do see parallels in the book, you're still not seeing all of them.

The first vial is poured out specifically against those that take the mark of the beast. The Angel warns them of this in Revelation 14.
So no it hasn't happened yet at that time.
 
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Timtofly

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He wrote Revelation 11:15-19 before Revelation 12:5, so that means you believe that the seventh trumpet sounded before Christ was born and before He ascended to heaven? Interesting.
If that is your spiritual discernment? Ok.
 
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Timtofly

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For the most part Matthew 24 gives us the correct chronology of events. First there is great tribulation, then that is immediately followed by the stars falling from heaven, where that is eventually followed by the coming meant in Matthew 24:30. One can't have the chronology of events recorded in in Revelation contradicting the chronology of events recorded in Matthew 24 if these accounts are referring to some of the same events.
Actually we can. Christ declared the end, and then worked backwards, in reverse to John's Revelation. John gives way too much detail and contradicts internally, if people start correcting Revelation.
 
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Timtofly

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The other option is that He does touch down after the rapture after appearing in the clouds, and Joel Richardson has an interesting take where there's a "second exodus" of Jews that fled into the wilderness when the Great Tribulation began, some are in captivity, and others in hiding, and Jesus leads them back to Zion. The compelling piece of evidence for this is Isaiah 63, where Isaiah sees Jesus coming FROM Bozrah already with His clothes stained in blood.
It's one of the compelling sections of scripture for timing as well as Jesus uses both day and year interchangably.
Mathew 25:31-32 claims Jesus sits on a throne and calls out the sheep from all nations. This would be part of the ingathering of Israel.
 
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