Is there consciousness after death? Is the doctrine of 'soul sleep' true?

sandman

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Sure but the word has many many different meaning. It doesn't only mean "soul".


Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.


Also, it's a bit awkward for the soul in the blood being able to atone for itself. I think "life" is the correct meaning which is why Hebrew experts choose it instead of "soul" in the first part of the verse. "soul" is appropriate for the two other times the word appears. So life is in the blood but the soul is not. When we bleed, we are not losing some of our soul.

Yes, it does sound awkward....I don't know.
The following post is from an (edited) teaching I did on Soul several years ago ...

SOUL

The subject of soul has a couple tentacles that are interesting, but I will refrain from going there and stick to your question.

While soul is occasionally reference as the spirit of man, there is no immortality or transmigration of the soul…………………soul and spirit (biblically) are two very different things. How people use them in secular and religious dialogue may or may not reflect Gods intent.


The Hebrew word for soul is the word nephesh.

It is used 738x in the OT and has been translated soul 475x, and various other words 263x, including: life, person, mind, heart, creature, body, himself, ..etc. The Hebrew word chay, which means “alive, living soul, or moving life”…. will always be employed in the Word of God with nephesh ….as living life, in contrast to a dead or perished soul.


The first time nephesh is translated “soul” is in Gen 2:7…..but, it is not the first time it is used. In Genesis chapter one, it is used four times in verses 20, 21,24 &30

It is translated hath in verse 20, creature in verses 21 and 24, and life in verse 30. But for the purposes of this teaching, I want to key off of Gen 1:21….


Genesis 1:21

1:21 And God created great whales, and every living [chay] creature [nephesh] that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

The first thing to note is that when God created soul life, He created it in great whales and every living creature that moveth. That tells us that soul life is not only in animals, but that it was created in animals first.

The word create is first used in Genesis 1:1 when God, in the beginning, created the heavens and the earth.

Genesis 1:1 God created the heaven and the earth in the very beginning. (Peshitta Text)


Create = bara in Hebrew - The word create is to bring something into existence that did not exist before, or to make something out of nothing. From Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 1:21, God did not create anything again until the 5th day when He created soul life in “great whales and every living creature.


((WHERE is the soul?))

The soul is our breath life, It’s what gives life to a persons body, it’s vitality. …. But the question becomes ….Where is the soul?

In Leviticus God tells us…..

Leviticus 17:11 For the life [nephesh] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls [nephesh]: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul [nephesh]

The word life in this verse is the same word for soul (nephesh) Soul life is in the blood.

Going back to basic Biology: Oxygen is delivered throughout the body by means of the red blood cells ….actually it is the hemoglobin molecules from the red cells that deliver the oxygen to the individual cells in the body tissue. The bloodstream also picks up CO2 from the body and returns it to the lunges to be exhaled…

What happens when we die?

The heart, which pumps the blood, which delivers the oxygen to the brain …… stops….. soul life ceases in that particular person…. but is carried on through prodigy. But if there is no offspring, the soul is gone when that person dies; there is nothing immortal about the soul.

In Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (chay nephesh)


The words “breathed into his nostrils” is the figure of speech anthropopatheia or condescension. This figure is used of the ascription of human passions, actions, or attributes to God.

(Of the 219 known figures of speech, there are over 212 that God uses in the Bible.)


The same soul life that God created in Genesis 1:21 is the same soul life that God breathed into Adam, which made Adam a living soul….It is also the same soul life that continues in mankind today.

(Edit: correction made on Figures of speech ...thanks to Der Alte)
 
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ewq1938

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soul and spirit (biblically) are two very different things.

Actually there is no difference between the soul and spirit except the two names being different. Otherwise, they are identical:

In John 12:27, Jesus said, "Now is my soul (psuche) troubled", and in John 13:21 it says, "Jesus was troubled in his spirit (pneuma)"

Here spirit and soul are used interchangeably. He was troubled in his soul, and he was troubled in his spirit.


Genesis 35:18 (KJV)
18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

James 2:26 (KJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Here they are used also interchangeably since the body is dead when the soul departs and the body is also dead when the spirit departs.


Soul and Spirit are defined the same in both Hebrew and Greek, and even English. They are synonyms.


English:

soul (sol) noun
1. The animating and vital principle in human beings, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2. The spiritual nature of human beings, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
3. The disembodied spirit of a dead human being; a shade....
5. A human being: "the homes of some nine hundred souls" (Garrison Keillor).
6. The central or integral part; the vital core: "It saddens me that this network . . . may lose its soul, which is after all the quest for news" (M. Kalb).

spir·it (spîr¹ît) noun
1. a. The vital principle or animating force within living beings. b. Incorporeal consciousness....
2. The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
6. a. The part of a human being associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit. b. The essential nature of a person or group.
7. A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.(11)

Take note that within the definition of SOUL that the word SPIRIT is used and in the definition of SPIRIT that the word SOUL is used. The spirit is a soul and the soul is a spirit! How's that for a full circle!

BDB dictionary Hebrew:

SOUL (nephesh):
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions


SPIRIT (ruach)
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character(13)

So in Hebrew "soul" refers to "that which breathes" and called mind, desire, and emotion.
And "spirit" refers to "that which breathes" and the part of us which experiences emotions and is responsible for "mental acts."

Same basic things just written using a little different terminology.

Greek:

Thayer's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):


SOUL (psuche):
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a12) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death....

SPIRIT (pneuma)
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
2a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
2b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
3a) a life giving spirit
3b) a human soul that has left the body
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
4a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.(14)



Thus in Greek "soul" refers to the animating principle which feels, desires, and can attain everlasting life with God.
And "spirit" is also the animating principle which feels, thinks, and decides. Notice once again, the use of the word soul to define spirit (twice in fact: 2b,3b).

Greek:

Strong's Greek words for soul (psuche) and spirit (pneuma):



Spirit
G4151
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Soul
G5590
psuche
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


"Summing up, overall the definitions of the English words and lexical entries for the Hebrew and Greek words indicate that "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable terms, with common characteristics ascribed to both."


Spirit: "by analogy or figuratively a spirit" and "the rational soul"
Soul: "(by implication) spirit" and "the rational and immortal soul"

Same exact meanings.



Unfortunately scripture doesn't provide any reasoning why the two have their own names or why we need two of something that is essentially two of the same thing with no provided differences between them. It's kind of like having a two headed coin, the same on both sides yet one side is not the other side technically.
 
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Bruce Leiter

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What are the best arguments for consciousness persisting after death?

What are the best arguments against consciousness persisting after death (i.e. for the doctrine of Christian Mortalism or 'Soul sleep')?

Which side has the upper hand? Which side has the best arguments?

Are there any debates, either in written form or in video, that are a must read/watch if one wants to dive deep into this controversial topic?

A good principle of interpreting the Bible is to assume what it assumes. The Apostle Paul assumes that his consciousness would last past death in heaven (2 Corinthians 5 and Philippians 1). Therefore, I assume that truth.
 
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bbbbbbb

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A good principle of interpreting the Bible is to assume what it assumes. The Apostle Paul assumes that his consciousness would last past death in heaven (2 Corinthians 5 and Philippians 1). Therefore, I assume that truth.

I am not at all certain that Paul was making an assumption in those passages. He seemed to be completely convinced.
 
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Bruce Leiter

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I am not at all certain that Paul was making an assumption in those passages. He seemed to be completely convinced.
It's all the same--to have an assumption is to show that he's convinced that he will live and be conscious after death.
 
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bbbbbbb

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It's all the same--to have an assumption is to show that he's convinced that he will live and be conscious after death.

At the risk of splitting hairs on this, having an assumption is not the same as having certainty. An assumption can lead to certainty, but not always.

For example, I make regular assumptions regarding my potential income for the purposes of paying quarterly estimated income taxes. Come April 15 every year I have absolute certainty. Rarely does that certainty line up with my assumptions.
 
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Der Alte

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* * * The words “breathed into his nostrils” is the figure of speech anthropopatheia or condescension. This figure is used of the ascription of human passions, actions, or attributes to God.

(Of the 119 known figures of speech, God uses 113 or 114 in the Bible.)
* * *
According to Dr. E.W. Bullinger in his 1899 book "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" there are 217 figures of speech in the Bible. Free online.
https://archive.org/details/figuresofspeechu00bull/page/267/mode/1up
 
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sandman

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According to Dr. E.W. Bullinger in his 1899 book "Figures of Speech Used in the Bible" there are 217 figures of speech in the Bible. Free online.
Figures of speech used in the Bible: : Bullinger, E. W. (Ethelbert William), 1837-1913 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Thank you!!! You are correct …Only off by just over a hundred, I should go back into government work.


I think I used to quote that there were over 212 from Bullinger 1970 edition, which is what I use…but I am going to check out this link…Thanks again for the correction.
 
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Der Alte

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Thank you!!! You are correct …Only off by just over a hundred, I should go back into government work.
I think I used to quote that there were over 212 from Bullinger 1970 edition, which is what I use…but I am going to check out this link…Thanks again for the correction.
You're welcome. I had enough gummint bizness 22 yrs USA 25 yrs DOD. This forum is kinda my part time job.
 
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SkyWriting

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Are there well documented cases?
Are they credible?

Death is not a terror. When the brain looses oxygen the ties to the body are severed and the brain proceeds into a "fantasy world" like a dream state.

People who have been revived recount somewhat similar experiences because the brain reacts the same way as it shuts down.
 
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SkyWriting

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You can base your understanding on (1) tortured interpretations of obscure Bible verses that your denomination insists you must accept or (2) the literal mountain of evidence from across multiple fields of human experience and research indicating consciousness survives death. These fields include Near Death Experiences, After-Death Communications, Deathbed Apparitions, mediumship research, and others. The genuinely serious research dates back to the founding of the Society for Psychical Research (of which I've been a member) in 1880 and continues today. I myself have been the recipient of a number of After-Death Communications that leave no doubt in my mind.

A good place to start would be the 29 prize-winning essays on the best evidence for life after death recently made available at the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies: Bigelow Institute.

I read the conclusion of one of the 29 reports. There are issues the writer (Greg Taylor) does not address in his concluding remarks. The FACT that he does not address these issues indicates the bias in his work toward his desired conclusion.

The fact is this: People have conscious knowledge of less than 1% of the processing power of the human mind. For example, one can be focused in thought while driving to work and suddenly find themself in the parking lot. The amount of processing power involved in that task of avoiding obstacles and adjusting speed is...well...very large. And it all can happen on "Auto pilot".

The same is true of "after life" experiences. You brain can "recreate" your relatives or even strangers based on huge amounts of information it has picked up on autopilot. You brain can know vast amounts of data about your environment that you have no clue about in your normal life.

So one re-occurring "proof" Greg states is "new" knowledge obtained after death. This just proves that he is biased in his research if he doesn't consider that a lot of what we know is hidden from us in our daily lives and perception.

Our brains can even pick up clues about things other people know and piece together facts about people we don't know. Like while you are talking your brain can "secretly" monitor nearby conversations that you are not aware of listening to. That's a second example (Greg) doesn't consider in his conclusion that consciousness persists.

https://www.bigelowinstitute.org/Winning_Essays/13_Greg_Taylor.pdf
 
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