Premillennialism ignores the tenses in the original Greek in order to sustain its teaching

Spiritual Jew

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No a complete change is necessary. You have yet to state putting on immortality over mortality is a change.
Of course it's a change. Paul said so in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. He said we all will be changed at the last trumpet and that is when this mortal will put on immortality. When we put on immortality then we will be immortal.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Then the majority of Revelation 20 is already fulfilled per Amil, including the start of Satan's little season. Your Gog and Magog are currently gathering and about ready to march against Jerusalem.
We don't believe it's talking about a literal gathering against Jerusalem, we believe it's figuratively talking about worldwide opposition to the church. You should try harder to learn what Amils believe so that you don't misrepresent what we believe all the time. It only makes you look ignorant when you do that.
 
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Timtofly

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Of course it's a change. Paul said so in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. He said we all will be changed at the last trumpet and that is when this mortal will put on immortality. When we put on immortality then we will be immortal.
You mean immortal mortals? Immortality is what is put on over the mortal.
 
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Timtofly

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We don't believe it's talking about a literal gathering against Jerusalem, we believe it's figuratively talking about worldwide opposition to the church. You should try harder to learn what Amils believe so that you don't misrepresent what we believe all the time. It only makes you look ignorant when you do that.
Is Gog and Magog just the next door neighbor?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Is Gog and Magog just the next door neighbor?

You have no right to insist on anyone answering any questions on Gog and Magog until you address all the avoided question above. Your avoidance is telling. It testifies to how untenable your position is.

· Who are the millennial inhabitants? Where do they come from? What is the criteria for inheriting the millennial earth?
· Who are Gog and Magog? Where do they come from? What is the criteria for inheriting Satan's little season?
· Are you saying that there is salvation for the wicked dead in hell?
· Do you believe there is hope for Satan and the demons also?
· If the wicked are destroyed at the end of Satan’s little season then where do they go when they die? Do they not need to be resurrected again to be judged?
 
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sovereigngrace

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You mean immortal mortals? Immortality is what is put on over the mortal.

Who told you that? That is ridiculous. One is actually exchanged for another. Your teachers have taught you wrong again. The Bible tells us that one is traded for the other. There is a supernatural change. Stop forcing your own opinions upon the sacred text. Nothing mortal or corruptible is allowed to enter the new glorified earth. Read the text! You are forcing a square peg into a round hole.

1 Corinthians 15:50-55 declares, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption [Gr. phthartos or perishable] inherit incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable]. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed [Gr. allasso], In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and we shall be changed [Gr. allasso]. For this corruptible [Gr. phthartos or perishable] must put on incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and this mortal [Gr. thnētos] must put on immortality [Gr. athanasia or deathlessness]. So when this corruptible [Gr. phthartos or perishable] shall have put on incorruption [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable], and this mortal [Gr. thnētos] shall have put on immortality [Gr. athanasia or deathlessness], then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

This passage is describing the great supernatural change that occurs to God’s people when Jesus returns and takes them from a temporal fallen “flesh and blood” existence to an eternal glorified condition. Corruptibility and mortality are shown here to be interlinked. Incorruption and immortality are also shown to be enjoined. They describe the two diverse states existing in two completely different dimensions.

This Greek word allasso used to describe the glorification of the earth in Hebrews 1:10-12 is also used to describe the glorification of the elect in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
 
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Timtofly

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You have no right to insist on anyone answering any questions on Gog and Magog until you address all the avoided question above. Your avoidance is telling. It testifies to how untenable your position is.

· Who are the millennial inhabitants? Where do they come from? What is the criteria for inheriting the millennial earth?
· Who are Gog and Magog? Where do they come from? What is the criteria for inheriting Satan's little season?
· Are you saying that there is salvation for the wicked dead in hell?
· Do you believe there is hope for Satan and the demons also?
· If the wicked are destroyed at the end of Satan’s little season then where do they go when they die? Do they not need to be resurrected again to be judged?
Ressurected souls.

Being beheaded.

The offspring of those ressurected.

The 1000 years are over.

No.

No.

Death, which is then emptied out, and they are cast into the LOF.

They do not need physical bodies in the LOF.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Resurrected souls.

Being beheaded.

The offspring of those ressurected.

The 1000 years are over.

No.

No.

Death, which is then emptied out, and they are cast into the LOF.

They do not need physical bodies in the LOF.

Where do these supposed resurrected souls come from?

If these resurrected souls are destroyed at the end of Satan’s little season do they then have another resurrection in order to be judged at the GWT?

What type of bodies do these millennial rebels possess when they are resurrected again in order to be judged at the GWT?
 
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sovereigngrace

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You did right there.

But your supposed resurrected wicked souls die again at the end of Satan’s little season. They are then resurrected again in order to be judged at the GWT and then they die again after that judgment, according to you.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The dead only stand in judgment once. They only stand before the GWT once. If you claim they are called out of their graves, obviously they do come out of the sea, sheol, and even Death, but as dead. The dead remain physically dead, and end up in the Lake of Fire dead dead, or twice dead.

Yes, and much Scripture shows that one judgement to occur at the second coming. This correlates with multiple second coming passages that demonstrate that the dead are judged when Jesus comes. This confirms the Amil location of Revelation 20 as being intra-Advent and totally demolishes your misplaced claims of locating it after the second coming, thus inventing to resurrections and judgments of the dead separated by 2000 years.

It is not just the righteous living and the righteous dead that are raised - as you argue, everyone must be raised because Paul says everyone is judged when Jesus comes and introduce His eternal kingdom.

In 1 Peter 4:1, 5 Peter contrasts the righteous and the wicked, and then concludes: “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin … Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick (or the living) and the dead.

2 Timothy 4:1 identifies the actual time when Adam's race will stand to account before the throne of God, saying, I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick (or the living) and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom.”

Adam’s race – in total – is therefore judged “at his (Christ’s) epifaneian (or) appearing and his kingdom.” Everyman that has ever lived from the foundation of the world will be then brought before the final judgment bar of God to account for their earthly lives. This is undoubtedly an all-inclusive general judgment. The persons involved and the occasion referred to could not be clearer.

When you place Revelation 20:11-15 together with all the other Second coming passages you see that it correlates beautifully with them. In fact, it mirrors them in remarkable detail. You would search in vain to find any Scripture that corroborates the idea of another judgment day 1000 years after the coming of the Lord. Scripture does not divide the judgment of the righteous and the wicked by a protracted period of time. Premillennialism does.

Revelation 20:7-13: “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison (the abyss or bottomless pit), And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

The great white throne follows the one and only coming of Christ, which sees the removal of the current corrupt heavens and earth. This corresponds with several other Scripture that locates the raising/judging of the dead to the second coming. This is a general judgment when Jesus comes! It doesn't say they are only the unsaved dead anywhere.

Revelation 11:15-18 says:And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”

The last trump is the time when “the time of the dead, that they should be judged.” This is the last trump, which is after the thousand years. It the time when the righteous expressly receive their “reward” and when Christ will “destroy” the wicked. For those that refuse to bow the knee to Christ it will be a time of “wrath.” We see here that there are two parties standing before the same throne receiving two diverse sentences.

How many times will the dead be judged? Once! It does not say men are appointed to die once and then two judgments. No, it says “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

Isaiah also speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in Isaiah 26:19-27:1, and also identifies it with the time and events that surround the end of the millennium, saying, Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

The passage declares, “behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.” The Hebrew word used here for slain is ‘harag’ meaning to destroy out of hand, kill, and put to death. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore assuredly happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

There is such an obvious finality to this whole reading that no one could surely argue with any credence that it is speaking of anything other than the end of the world. Moreover, this climactic event also sees the complete destruction of that great enemy of the kingdom of God – that old serpent/dragon Satan and the wicked is once and for all destroyed. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

Job testified in Job 14:12-14, So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.”

Job starts off describing an oft-repeated truth in Scripture that "man" is going to be resurrected in the future. He doesn't stipulate just righteous man, as Premil would want it to say, but "man." He enlarges on this, asking a rhetorical question, "If a man die, shall he live again?" Of course, the answer is obvious: Yes, all men!

Job is (by his own confession) including himself in the resurrection in view. He clearly identifies the great hope of the resurrection of the dead (which expressly here includes himself – an Old Testament saint) and places it at the time when the heavens (and therefore the current earth) pass away and consequently witness the appearance of the New Jerusalem at the last day. The word translated “till” here is the Hebrew word ad that is consistently interpreted “unto” or “even unto” elsewhere throughout the Old Testament. Therefore, we can interpret this passage as saying: “So man lieth down, and riseth not: even unto the heavens be no more.” This shows that the resurrection of the dead occurs at the end of the world at a time after the end of the millennium, not before.

Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. Job 19:25-26:
“For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”

The same resurrection expectation is alluded to in both Job 14:12-14 and Job 19:25-27. That is why Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. There is no other earth than this present one that Job would have been familiar with. Job is looking forward to the day that he will be devoid of corruption and will stand upon a new glorified earth resplendent in his new glorified body. The fact he says “the earth” tells us that this current earth will survive albeit in a regenerated earth fitted for glorified saints.

Job outlines a great mystery, that whilst worms in the grave would eat the body that he then possessed, he would still see the Lord again in the flesh at the latter day. Evidently, as the New Testament explains it, he would be clothed with a new body – an incorruptible one. The writer confirms when this will happen: “he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.” Job would rise at “the last day” with all the dead in Christ. This fits in with many other passages talking about “the last day” (singular).
 
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Timtofly

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Where do these supposed resurrected souls come from?

If these resurrected souls are destroyed at the end of Satan’s little season do they then have another resurrection in order to be judged at the GWT?

What type of bodies do these millennial rebels possess when they are resurrected again in order to be judged at the GWT?
Those beheaded for not taking the mark.

Those resurrected cannot ever die again. Your question is not applicable to the ones resurrected.
 
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Timtofly

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But your supposed resurrected wicked souls die again at the end of Satan’s little season. They are then resurrected again in order to be judged at the GWT and then they die again after that judgment, according to you.
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
 
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Timtofly

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Yes, and much Scripture shows that one judgement to occur at the second coming. This correlates with multiple second coming passages that demonstrate that the dead are judged when Jesus comes. This confirms the Amil location of Revelation 20 as being intra-Advent and totally demolishes your misplaced claims of locating it after the second coming, thus inventing to resurrections and judgments of the dead separated by 2000 years.
The unsaved dead are raptured to meet the Lord in the air?

It is not just the righteous living and the righteous dead that are raised - as you argue, everyone must be raised because Paul says everyone is judged when Jesus comes and introduce His eternal kingdom.

In 1 Peter 4:1, 5 Peter contrasts the righteous and the wicked, and then concludes: “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin … Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick (or the living) and the dead.


Adam’s race – in total – is therefore judged “at his (Christ’s) epifaneian (or) appearing and his kingdom.” Everyman that has ever lived from the foundation of the world will be then brought before the final judgment bar of God to account for their earthly lives. This is undoubtedly an all-inclusive general judgment. The persons involved and the occasion referred to could not be clearer.

So all the dead from all time are raptured to meet the Lord in the air? That is universalism. Don't say I am misrepresenting you. You just claimed that all the dead rise to meet the Lord in the air, both the wicked and the saint to be judged. Here are Paul's words,

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Paul was not including the wicked in the rapture. Earlier in the chapter, Paul defined the end:

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign. (John declares 1000 years), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

John introduces Death:

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Paul declares 3 separate ressurections of note:

Christ the firstfruits at the Cross.

The Second Coming.

Then comes the end.

Paul was not told the length between the first 2 nor the length of the end. John was told one of the lengths, and that 1000 years is just dismissed as being too symbolic, so we will just lump Paul and John into a singular event and make all think Revelation is messed up chronologically.

Now about 2 Timothy 4:

2 Timothy 4:1 identifies the actual time when Adam's race will stand to account before the throne of God, saying, I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick (or the righteous) and the dead (or the unrighteous) at his appearing and his kingdom.”

You just said yourself the righteous and the wicked, and you changed application to the living and the dead. No, at the Second Coming, the living will be either righteous or unrighteous. The dead are those wicked ones.

You are calling the righteous all those who are alive, and the wicked all those who are dead. I agree, but has nothing to do with a physical condition, but a spiritual one. So which is it, spiritual or physical in these verses? Neither state a resurrection, only a judgment on one's spiritual condition.

When you place Revelation 20:11-15 together with all the other Second coming passages you see that it correlates beautifully with them. In fact, it mirrors them in remarkable detail. You would search in vain to find any Scripture that corroborates the idea of another judgment day 1000 years after the coming of the Lord. Scripture does not divide the judgment of the righteous and the wicked by a protracted period of time. Premillennialism does.

Revelation 20:7-13: “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison (the abyss or bottomless pit), And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

The great white throne follows the one and only coming of Christ, which sees the removal of the current corrupt heavens and earth. This corresponds with several other Scripture that locates the raising/judging of the dead to the second coming. This is a general judgment when Jesus comes! It doesn't say they are only the unsaved dead anywhere.

Except there is a total difference between the wicked dead, and the righteous living.

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

A harmonious 1000 year difference between the wicked dead and the righteous living.

Revelation 11:15-18 says:And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”

The last trump is the time when “the time of the dead, that they should be judged.” This is the last trump, which is after the thousand years. It the time when the righteous expressly receive their “reward” and when Christ will “destroy” the wicked. For those that refuse to bow the knee to Christ it will be a time of “wrath.” We see here that there are two parties standing before the same throne receiving two diverse sentences.

How many times will the dead be judged? Once! It does not say men are appointed to die once and then two judgments. No, it says “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

Isaiah also speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in Isaiah 26:19-27:1, and also identifies it with the time and events that surround the end of the millennium, saying, Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

The passage declares, “behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.” The Hebrew word used here for slain is ‘harag’ meaning to destroy out of hand, kill, and put to death. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore assuredly happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

The dead are only judged once. There is no rapture in Revelation 20 anywhere. Not at the start and not at the end of that chapter. Heaven and earth fleeing from the presence of God is the end of this creation, not a rapture. Rapture is being caught up to God in the act of glorification. Not being the wicked dead at the GWT outside of creation.

Revelation 20 declares a 1000 year time frame between a resurrection before thrones (plural) that is not even a rapture, and the GWT (singular).

There is such an obvious finality to this whole reading that no one could surely argue with any credence that it is speaking of anything other than the end of the world. Moreover, this climactic event also sees the complete destruction of that great enemy of the kingdom of God – that old serpent/dragon Satan and the wicked is once and for all destroyed. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

Job testified in Job 14:12-14, So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.”

Job starts off describing an oft-repeated truth in Scripture that "man" is going to be resurrected in the future. He doesn't stipulate just righteous man, as Premil would want it to say, but "man." He enlarges on this, asking a rhetorical question, "If a man die, shall he live again?" Of course, the answer is obvious: Yes, all men!

Job is (by his own confession) including himself in the resurrection in view. He clearly identifies the great hope of the resurrection of the dead (which expressly here includes himself – an Old Testament saint) and places it at the time when the heavens (and therefore the current earth) pass away and consequently witness the appearance of the New Jerusalem at the last day. The word translated “till” here is the Hebrew word ad that is consistently interpreted “unto” or “even unto” elsewhere throughout the Old Testament. Therefore, we can interpret this passage as saying: “So man lieth down, and riseth not: even unto the heavens be no more.” This shows that the resurrection of the dead occurs at the end of the world at a time after the end of the millennium, not before.

Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. Job 19:25-26:
“For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.”

The same resurrection expectation is alluded to in both Job 14:12-14 and Job 19:25-27. That is why Job prophesied that the Lord would stand on this earth at the end of the age. There is no other earth than this present one that Job would have been familiar with. Job is looking forward to the day that he will be devoid of corruption and will stand upon a new glorified earth resplendent in his new glorified body. The fact he says “the earth” tells us that this current earth will survive albeit in a regenerated earth fitted for glorified saints.

Job outlines a great mystery, that whilst worms in the grave would eat the body that he then possessed, he would still see the Lord again in the flesh at the latter day. Evidently, as the New Testament explains it, he would be clothed with a new body – an incorruptible one. The writer confirms when this will happen: “he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.” Job would rise at “the last day” with all the dead in Christ. This fits in with many other passages talking about “the last day” (singular).
Job was not even looking for a city, because Abraham was tasked with looking for that heavenly Paradise. Job did rise on the Last Day of the OT Covenant, called the Cross, when the veil was torn from top to bottom, Jesus said, "It is finished", and Paradise was opened wide to those in Abraham's bosom. Matthew 27.

Physical bodies came out of their graves. How many tines can physical bodies come out of their graves?

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power."

There is no good reason to turn physically resurrected people back into wicked dead ones and force them to stand again at the GWT. All the glorified righteous living are in Christ and glorified in Christ, and nothing can change that fact. Romans 8 points out the strength the living have when it comes to being in Christ, much more so for those already with the Lord.
Revelation 7:9-17.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Those beheaded for not taking the mark.

Those resurrected cannot ever die again. Your question is not applicable to the ones resurrected.

But you are talking about the redeemed here. But the people you are forcing into your so-called future millennium are billions of wicked who rebel against God and surround the redeemed at the end. Where do they come from? You have been ducking this issue for long enough.
 
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"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

But you are talking about the redeemed here. But the people you are forcing into your so-called future millennium are billions of wicked who rebel against God and surround the redeemed at the end. Where do they come from? You have been ducking this issue for long enough.
 
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Timtofly

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But you are talking about the redeemed here. But the people you are forcing into your so-called future millennium are billions of wicked who rebel against God and surround the redeemed at the end. Where do they come from? You have been ducking this issue for long enough.
Most people come from their parents, but I guess you are looking for some mystical heretofore unknown method of population.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The unsaved dead are raptured to meet the Lord in the air

It is clear over that you have been on a deliberate campaign to try and deliberately misrepresent Amillennialism. That is obviously because you have no answer to their position and the multiple Scriptures that they present that forbids your teaching. Along with your repeated avoidance, I will take that as a compliment to the potency of the position.

So all the dead from all time are raptured to meet the Lord in the air? That is universalism. Don't say I am misrepresenting you. You just claimed that all the dead rise to meet the Lord in the air, both the wicked and the saint to be judged. Here are Paul's words,

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Paul was not including the wicked in the rapture. Earlier in the chapter, Paul defined the end:

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign. (John declares 1000 years), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

John introduces Death:

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Paul declares 3 separate ressurections of note:

Christ the firstfruits at the Cross.

The Second Coming.

Then comes the end.

Paul was not told the length between the first 2 nor the length of the end. John was told one of the lengths, and that 1000 years is just dismissed as being too symbolic, so we will just lump Paul and John into a singular event and make all think Revelation is messed up chronologically.

Now about 2 Timothy 4:

2 Timothy 4:1 identifies the actual time when Adam's race will stand to account before the throne of God, saying, I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick (or the righteous) and the dead (or the unrighteous) at his appearing and his kingdom.”

You just said yourself the righteous and the wicked, and you changed application to the living and the dead. No, at the Second Coming, the living will be either righteous or unrighteous. The dead are those wicked ones.

You are calling the righteous all those who are alive, and the wicked all those who are dead. I agree, but has nothing to do with a physical condition, but a spiritual one. So which is it, spiritual or physical in these verses? Neither state a resurrection, only a judgment on one's spiritual condition.

Again, this highlights how you cannot deal with what Amils believ, so you distort what they believe in a futile attempt to buttress Premil. The quick (or the living) when Jesus arrives are not just the righteous, but they include the wicked. They will be both alive when Jesus comes. The dead involves more than the unrighteous, there are also countless millions of righteous dead as well. They are called the dead in Christ if you would care to read another passage apart from Revelation 20.

Who is actually exempt from the living and the dead? No one! Adam’s race – in total – is therefore judged “at his (Christ’s) epifaneian (or) appearing and his kingdom.” Everyman that has ever lived from the foundation of the world will be then brought before the final judgment bar of God to account for their earthly lives. This is undoubtedly an all-inclusive general judgment. The persons involved and the occasion referred to could not be clearer.

Except there is a total difference between the wicked dead, and the righteous living.

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

A harmonious 1000 year difference between the wicked dead and the righteous living.

If you would simply get an epiphany of what this is talking about then you wouldn't be misrepresenting Revelation 20 so often. It is talking about two types of people in the world - saved and lost. Saved people experience the first resurrection. The unsaved do not. They will only encounter Christ at the GWT when He comes. This blows apart your faulty theological speculations.

The dead are only judged once. There is no rapture in Revelation 20 anywhere. Not at the start and not at the end of that chapter. Heaven and earth fleeing from the presence of God is the end of this creation, not a rapture. Rapture is being caught up to God in the act of glorification. Not being the wicked dead at the GWT outside of creation.

Revelation 20 declares a 1000 year time frame between a resurrection before thrones (plural) that is not even a rapture, and the GWT (singular).

Again, you totally ducked around the evidence that shows the dead are resurrected and judged when Jesus comes. This expose your opinion. I will repost the evidence which you avoided. By doing this you commend Amil!

Revelation 11:15-18 says:And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”

The last trump is the time when “the time of the dead, that they should be judged.” This is the last trump, which is after the thousand years. It the time when the righteous expressly receive their “reward” and when Christ will “destroy” the wicked. For those that refuse to bow the knee to Christ it will be a time of “wrath.” We see here that there are two parties standing before the same throne receiving two diverse sentences.

How many times will the dead be judged? Once! It does not say men are appointed to die once and then two judgments. No, it says “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

Isaiah also speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in Isaiah 26:19-27:1, and also identifies it with the time and events that surround the end of the millennium, saying, Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

The passage declares, “behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.” The Hebrew word used here for slain is ‘harag’ meaning to destroy out of hand, kill, and put to death. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore assuredly happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

There is such an obvious finality to this whole reading that no one could surely argue with any credence that it is speaking of anything other than the end of the world. Moreover, this climactic event also sees the complete destruction of that great enemy of the kingdom of God – that old serpent/dragon Satan and the wicked is once and for all destroyed. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

Job was not even looking for a city, because Abraham was tasked with looking for that heavenly Paradise. Job did rise on the Last Day of the OT Covenant, called the Cross, when the veil was torn from top to bottom, Jesus said, "It is finished", and Paradise was opened wide to those in Abraham's bosom. Matthew 27.

Physical bodies came out of their graves. How many tines can physical bodies come out of their graves?

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power."

There is no good reason to turn physically resurrected people back into wicked dead ones and force them to stand again at the GWT. All the glorified righteous living are in Christ and glorified in Christ, and nothing can change that fact. Romans 8 points out the strength the living have when it comes to being in Christ, much more so for those already with the Lord.
Revelation 7:9-17.

The last day off the last days is the second coming. This is when the living and the dead will stand at the great white throne an account for the lives. Job will be among that number. There is no where it says it is "the Last Day of the OT Covenant." You conveniently become a Preterist when it suits your purposes. Your arguments are self-contradictory.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Most people come from their parents, but I guess you are looking for some mystical heretofore unknown method of population.

You are telling us that Gog and Magog are the redeemed dead who are "beheaded for not taking the mark" who populate your sin-cursed death-blighted corrupt millennial earth and then suddenly decide en-masse (in their glorified bodies) to turn on Christ and embrace Satanism. You then reward them for this great betrayal of Jesus by not allowing Jesus to judge them or destroy them.

Personally, I never heard anything so absurd in my life. This is totally ridiculous. This should be rejected by every sound evangelical. It is pure nonsense.
 
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Most people come from their parents, but I guess you are looking for some mystical heretofore unknown method of population.

And where exactly is Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation 20? You have sidestepped that to add to the list of avoided questions you have to ducked.
 
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