There is no such thing as a "rapture" for believers!!

Ed Parenteau said:

Even though I asked you first, my answer is no, but Jesus and the apostles used Abraham to win Jews. Now it is your turn to answer my question. Why exclude anything from the bible when preaching the gospel? The whole bible is the good news of Jesus Christ. The gospel is like a diamond that has many facets including the good news of His kingdom, His grace, His peace etc..

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Because Paul instructs us, whenever we study scripture, to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). This is God's approved way of understanding scripture.

If you want to preach to unbelievers or believers, in your example, you will be doing a great disservice if you were to teach them promises that were meant for the nation of Israel, and claiming them for the Body of Christ.

Hope that answers your question.

FreeGrace2 said:

When I speak of the Gospel, I mean ONLY ONE way to be saved.

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But you already said you agree that the word "gospel" means good news. Why do you keep backtracking?

There is no such thing as a "rapture" for believers!!

Never mind, I think I have made my point to you already. We can move on.

Guojing said:

Because Paul instructs us, whenever we study scripture, to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). This is God's approved way of understanding scripture.

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You say this, and then you say the following which is 100% "make believe". If you're going to claim to "rightly divide the word of truth", at least have some scripture to "rightly divide".

Guojing said:

If you want to preach to unbelievers or believers, in your example, you will be doing a great disservice if you were to teach them promises that were meant for the nation of Israel, and claiming them for the Body of Christ.

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Ed Parenteau said:

You say this, and then you say the following which is 100% "make believe". If you're going to claim to "rightly divide the word of truth", at least have some scripture to "rightly divide".

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So let me be clear what you think.

Do you believe that every promise that God gave in scripture to "someone", anyone of us can also claim for ourselves?

Where do you draw the line here?

FreeGrace2 said:

What point?

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That there are "different kinds" of good news found in scripture.

Guojing said:

You are not addressing my point, as it is worded.

I said there is more than ONE good news given by God to Man in the Bible.

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The 'Good News' is... The Gospel of Jesus Christ, so you just shot yourself in your own foot again.

Davy said:

The 'Good News' is... The Gospel of Jesus Christ, so you just shot yourself in your own foot again.

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So you disagree with my statement. Alright then.

FreeGrace2 said:

OK, prove that with examples of "good news" but not salvation.

By that, I mean something referred to or called "good news" but isn't about going to heaven.

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Already gave you Galatians 3:8

Guojing said:

So let me be clear what you think.

Do you believe that every promise that God gave in scripture to "someone", anyone of us can also claim for ourselves?

Where do you draw the line here?

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I'll let Paul tell you: 2 Corinthians 1: 18As surely as God is faithful, our word to you has not been Yes and No. 19For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, whom we proclaimed among you, Silvanus and Timothy and I, was not Yes and No, but in him it is always Yes. 20For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. 21And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may rest on grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

As you read the following, remember Mark 10:9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Ephesians 2
11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

FreeGrace2 said:

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
OK, prove that with examples of "good news" but not salvation.

By that, I mean something referred to or called "good news" but isn't about going to heaven.

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”

What in the world do you think "will be blessed through you" means, anyway?

Of course this verse is about salvation. So you HAVEN'T given a verse where the word "gospel" is used for other kinds of good news that isn't about salvation.

Keep digging. You might find one.

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What in the world do you think "will be blessed through you" means, anyway?

Of course this verse is about salvation.

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How do you conclude that? Where is your scripture?

Ed Parenteau said:

I'll let Paul tell you: 2 Corinthians 1: 18As surely as God is faithful, our word to you has not been Yes and No. 19For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, whom we proclaimed among you, Silvanus and Timothy and I, was not Yes and No, but in him it is always Yes. 20For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory. 21And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

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Ahh the frequently misapplied verse. Do you attend a Word of Faith or a Charismatic Church?

When God promised us present salvation in the Body of Christ, do you also take his promises to Israel and others as yours too?

Let me give you an uncontroversial example. Take God's promises to Abraham in Genesis 15:5

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

How would you respond to someone who said, "Since I believe 2 Corinthians 1:20, I can claim this promise that God gave Abraham as well!"

What about Matthew 19:28 as well? Do you think it makes logical sense for anyone of us to use 2 Corinthians 1:20 to declare "I shall also be sitting on 1 of those 12 thrones and judging the 12 tribes of Israel"?

Guojing said:

Ahh the frequently misapplied verse. Do you attend a Word of Faith or a Charismatic Church?

When God promised us present salvation in the Body of Christ, do you also take his promises to Israel and others as yours too?

Let me give you an uncontroversial example. Take God's promises to Abraham in Genesis 15:5

And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

How would you respond to someone who said, "Since I believe 2 Corinthians 1:20, I can claim this promise that God gave Abraham as well!"

What about Matthew 19:28 as well? Do you think it makes logical sense for anyone of us to use 2 Corinthians 1:20 to declare "I shall also be sitting on 1 of those 12 thrones and judging the 12 tribes of Israel"?

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I'm not misapplying anything, as it obviously refers the His eternal promises.

Absolutely can claim that promise given to Abraham.
Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise.

Promises to Israel such as the resurrection, new covenant, the Messiah etc.. yes.
Promises to named individuals-no-of course not,
as I certainly couldn't partake in some of the promises given to the seven churches in Asia such as Christ coming quickly, since those churches no longer exist.

Even though there is one flock, the bible breaks them up into 2 groups--1) The little flock( Luke 12:32) this is the bride of Christ, these will sit on thrones alongside Jesus, these are numbered-Rev 14:3-144,000 are bought from the earth. These will help seperate the sheep and goats during the tribulation,and help judge even the fallen angels-These are anointed. Rev 1:6.Rev 20:4, These are apart of the first resurrection.
2)Then the other sheep John 10:16--which are not of this fold(little flock) these are the great crowd which no man can number. Promised to stand before the throne. No where does it say these go to heaven. In fact this is all there is thus-Jesus gave to them this promise--Matthew 5:5-Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth, which goes along with the promise found in Psalms 37:9-11,29--The righteous will possess the earth and reside forever upon it--(Prov 2:21,22--Matthew 24:22--These will be brought through the tribulation and Har-mageddon on earth. as Noah was brought through the flood.

FreeGrace2 said:

I don't believe that the Second Coming is the "last day" or "the end of time".

Rev 20 clearly explains that when Jesus returns, He sets up His Millennial Kingdom. At the end of that literal 1,000 year reign, Satan is released for a short time, where he again deceives the world, and Jesus destroys them all at the battle of Gog and Magog.

THEN, all unbelievers are "resurrected" (come to life) to meet at the GWT judgment and then be cast into the lake of fire.

Then Rev 21 describes the end of the present heaven and earth and the new heaven and earth.

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On what basis do you say that the 1,000 year period is a literal length of time when the other numbers in a very symbolic book are figurative?

Bruce Leiter said:

On what basis do you say that the 1,000 year period is a literal length of time when the other numbers in a very symbolic book are figurative?

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Probably for the same reason that many Christians believe that Genesis 1 describes events which occurred on six literal twenty-four hour days.