The Acceptance Of Homosexuality, LGBT

coffee4u said:

There is no way for it to meet the standard because the standard is only one man to one women in marriage. Anything outside of that is sin. God gave no proviso for any other form of marriage and any sexual activity outside of marriage is fornication.

No one gets a free pass. The fact that even looking can be considered lust and that lust can count as adultery is enough to say sexual sin is very easy to fall into, and that close to 99.9% are guilty of it. If we need to repent from looking with lust how much more so for touching or for anything else?
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.

Sin should never be condoned and should never be accepted. It can be forgiven if one repents and then we are to 'go sin no more'. No exceptions.

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God presents 8 different forms of marriage, only one of which is a single man and a single women. God calls them marriages and gives them rules for harmonious living.

One man and one woman.

Polygamous marriage - one man married to multiple women

Levirate marriage - one man married to a number of women plus the childless widow of the man's brother who God commands he have sex with until she becomes pregnant.

A man, a woman and her female slave(s)

A man married to one or more women, and any number of concubines

A man and a female prisoner of war, usually a girl

A man and any woman he rapes

keiw said:

It is an awful risk in hearing these words from Jesus as judgement-Matthew 7:22-23

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Its still the truth

SilverBear said:

Its still the truth

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Dont count on it. Many scholars disagree. Satan is very powerful. Dont forget he has his teachers in place-2Corinthians 11:12-15.

SilverBear said:

God presents 8 different forms of marriage, only one of which is a single man and a single women. God calls them marriages and gives them rules for harmonious living.

One man and one woman.

Polygamous marriage - one man married to multiple women

Levirate marriage - one man married to a number of women plus the childless widow of the man's brother who God commands he have sex with until she becomes pregnant.

A man, a woman and her female slave(s)

A man married to one or more women, and any number of concubines

A man and a female prisoner of war, usually a girl

A man and any woman he rapes

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Scripture please for each one and of course this needs to be New Convenient, which we are currently under. We are not under the old laws of taking bulls to sacrifice.

JohnPaul88 said:

But it does go against the laws of God and nature as two people of the same sex can’t reproduce.

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And you are informing me of this because?

keiw said:

Never when it conflicts with Gods law. Acts 5:29

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In that passage Peter is telling the church leaders to get lost, because secular law allows them to do as they were doing.

25 Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.

26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.

27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,

28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s cblood upon us.

29 ¶ Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

keiw said:

Matthew 24:13--He that endures( living now to do Jesus Fatherswill( Matt 7:21) in this satan ruled system) to their end WILL BE SAVED.

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Yes, those with saving faith in the blood of Jesus (already spilled) will be saved. Those who do not believe, will not.

SkyWriting said:

This is what some people strive for. To eliminate all visible abnormalities from the public eye and keep them hidden. It seems like a very petty goal for thinking people.

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To a point it is a natural human tendency. But I think in modern society the emphasis on individual sucess can lead to promoting an unreal idea of people being without faults. Thats why in some ways the idea that we are all sinners is a leveler and promotes humility.

SkyWriting said:

Yes, those with saving faith in the blood of Jesus (already spilled) will be saved. Those who do not believe, will not.

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Those who live to do his Fathers will now will get saved-Matt 7:21-23--see 22-23 those who think they have faith and believe.

SkyWriting said:

In that passage Peter is telling the church leaders to get lost, because secular law allows them to do as they were doing.

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Not ever does a follower of Christ put mortal views over Gods. Especially since it shows at Rev 16--with 3 inspired expressions satan misleads EVERY kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) to stand in opposition to Gods king. The results-Rev 19:11-21
Some govts have kicked God out-separation of church and state--That means if God isnt there, you know who is. He rules all of them. They are corrupt to the core.

keiw said:

Not ever does a follower of Christ put mortal views over Gods.

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Churches have any legal authority? The Bible says that the church leaders have zero authority and that local laws is God's will. In this passage Peter tells the church leaders to take a hike because they were acting legally and reminding them the church has no authority:

Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 5 - English Standard Version




Then Christians would be perhaps a slightly higher percentage of the jail population than the general population? So the claim has no merit. We ALL put secular law over Gods laws.

Else there would be more stoning's.

Or else Jesus would not have agreed to be crucified.

Or else our law would the the 613 commandments.


Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

1 Peter 2:18-20
Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

keiw said:

Not ever does a follower of Christ put mortal views over Gods. Especially since it shows at Rev 16--with 3 inspired expressions satan misleads EVERY kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) to stand in opposition to Gods king. The results-Rev 19:11-21
Some govts have kicked God out-separation of church and state--That means if God isnt there, you know who is. He rules all of them. They are corrupt to the core.

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God has put all authorities in place. I get that this displeases us.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

SkyWriting said:

EXACTLY.

The trend is that Paul was pretty clueless on sin, or else was fully aware and had some motivation to stay quiet. Or same sex attraction was a pet peeve or a personal obsession of his.

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Is that the “trend”? According to whom? You? Based on what exactly? Because you say so?

To impugn the veracity of Paul stating sex acts are sinful in Romans 1:25-28 as Paul was wrong, they aren’t sinful, requires more than you, out of thin air, seeing a “trend” compounded by your complete guessing game of what Paul knew, and more complete guessing as to a motive where certain conditionals are met.

Your method is presently useless when assessing whether Paul, as you claim, was incorrect to say same sex acts are sinful. Your method is devoid of any facts or rules, guideposts, to as objectively as possible direct us to a determination as to whether your statement is true, likely true.

Your own method can be co-opted to refute your own argument and claim and is as true as your contrary POV.

Counter argument using your method. The trend is you do not know what you’re talking about when it comes to sin. Or you know but have some motive to speak contrary to your knowledge, maybe you gay friends or family you cannot possibly conceive as engaging in sin. Maybe those expressing antipathy towards gay and lesbian annoys you, a pet peeve, hence, you throw Paul under the bus.)

Paul can’t be right because you say you are right and that is based in some out of nowhere “trend” and fantastical guessing as to knowledge, motives, and annoyances.

So, your method and argument seeking to demonstrate Paul was wrong is a poor argument because the reasoning is weak and so is the method used in your argument.


You have no evidence in Scripture to support your statements of:

Same sex acts are condemned because
1. it is sex outside of a committed marriage.
2. it was casual sex not intended to last
3. It was a secondary partnership
and because the only visible of such relationships fit one of the three.

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Same sex acts are asserted to be sinful I’m Romans 1:25-28 without regard to any qualifications in 1-3.

You have a POV not supported by Scripture.

As for beating ones wife, hitting ones children, and masturbation, these private issues get a pass by Paul.

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The reasoning of Paul did not condemn the above as “sinful,” therefore, he’s wrong to say same sex acts are sinful, is a nonsequitur. The claim doesn’t follow from your reasoning.

You assume Paul must have stated those behaviors are sinful to be correct when he says same sex acts are sinful. What is the basis of this assumption?

Again, your reasoning and method permits anyone to declare someone was wrong to assert some specific conduct is sinful.

Let’s borrow your logic and apply your logic to the writings is another.

Your reasoning: (Jesus said “but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” However, Jesus didn’t condemn “masturbation, verbal abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse, then Jesus was “clueless” as to what is sinful and he was wrong to say what is adultery in the heart.

Yet, what your logic ignores is that Paul, Jesus, and others can condemn some specific conduct as sinful, and be correct and knowledgeable, despite not discussing your “pet” list of sins they should have also mentioned.

SkyWriting said:

Churches have any legal authority? The Bible says that the church leaders have zero authority and that local laws is God's will. In this passage Peter tells the church leaders to take a hike because they were acting legally and reminding them the church has no authority:

Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 5 - English Standard Version




Then Christians would be perhaps a slightly higher percentage of the jail population than the general population? So the claim has no merit. We ALL put secular law over Gods laws.

Else there would be more stoning's.

Or else Jesus would not have agreed to be crucified.

Or else our law would the the 613 commandments.


Hebrews 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

1 Peter 2:18-20
Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

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The bible councils to obey the laws so they have no reason to imprision one. but if a law goes against Gods will. Gods will comes first. One cannot serve God if they disobey him to listen to men who stand in opposition to that will. Jesus assures--Matt 7:21-- those living now to do his Fathers will get to enter his kingdom( be saved)-- always first.

SkyWriting said:

God has put all authorities in place. I get that this displeases us.

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

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Yes God allows them to be. Otherwise anarchy would rule and the majority of us probably wouldnt even be alive.
Most dont realize how rare of an occurence it is for us to have life to start with. If centuries ago ones great great great grandfather was killed before he married the woman he did. the seed ended right there. Or if he chose another for a wife. A single change of events ended the seed. If anarchy ruled. many here now wouldnt be here.

keiw said:

Dont count on it. Many scholars disagree. Satan is very powerful. Dont forget he has his teachers in place-2Corinthians 11:12-15.

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what part of my post isn't true?

Remember facts don't stop being facts just because you don't like them

coffee4u said:

Scripture please for each one and of course this needs to be New Convenient, which we are currently under. We are not under the old laws of taking bulls to sacrifice.

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You claimed: "God gave no proviso for any other form of marriage and any sexual activity outside of marriage is fornication." but obviously he did

SilverBear said:

God presents 8 different forms of marriage, only one of which is a single man and a single women. God calls them marriages and gives them rules for harmonious living.

One man and one woman.

Polygamous marriage - one man married to multiple women

Levirate marriage - one man married to a number of women plus the childless widow of the man's brother who God commands he have sex with until she becomes pregnant.

A man, a woman and her female slave(s)

A man married to one or more women, and any number of concubines

A man and a female prisoner of war, usually a girl

A man and any woman he rapes

Click to expand...

That isnt allowed in The NT. and see it was always man and woman.

keiw said:

That isnt allowed in The NT. and see it was always man and woman.

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So God changed his mind

SilverBear said:

So God changed his mind

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God made a few different covenants throughout the history of man. All should be glad he did. In the OT if one was guilty of unrepentence they were stoned to death. There wouldnt be many alive today if that didnt change. The Israelite leaders had some of the apostles stoned to death.