There is NO risk to me if I am wrong about "certain" doctrinal positions.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 9, 2022

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Scripture please Carl? Where does it say in the scriptures we enter into God's "seventh day" creation rest every day? I am finding it difficult to understand what you have posted here without you providing any scripture support if I am being honest with you because according to the scriptures, "the seventh day" of the week is not every day of the week. Full text of Hebrews 4:1-11 already posted with scripture context shown in post # 330 linked.

Your response here..

Carl Emerson said:
I'm sure you appreciate that God dwells outside of chronological time... He is permanently in the Seventh Day of Creation. He invites us to join with Him in His rest today if you hear His Voice. This invitation is constantly being made every day and He awaits our response. It isn't about Saturday or Sunday or any other day - it is about the free gift of communion with Him through the obedience of Christ by faith.

So I gather that is a no Carl? You have no scripture to support your view.

Something to pray about I guess.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 9, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Again the question remains unanswered...

Has God watched over the translation of scripture so we have dependable translations or not ???

That is all I am asking.

Let's be truthful Carl. see Post # 321 linked.

Carl Emerson · Jan 9, 2022

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response here..

So I gather that is a no Carl? You have no scripture to support your view.

Something to pray about I guess.

I have been reading scripture over 70 years and at one time over 5 years in a stretch reading nothing but scripture.

This has given me a 'big picture' appreciation of His truth rather than a myopic view that has pharisaical knowledge but little appreciation of Him.

As I have raised before - if you cant reason - you are not in His Wisdom. (Jas 3:17)

Are you suggesting God is not dwelling outside of time?

Are you suggesting that God is not in His seventh day of creation?

Are you suggesting that He is not inviting us to enter His rest through the finished Word of Christ by faith?

Carl Emerson · Jan 9, 2022

LoveGodsWord said:
Let's be truthful Carl. see Post # 321 linked.

Nonsense the question is not answered in the link provided.

Not even referred to.

Totally avoided.

Simple question - has God watched over the process of modern translations to make sure we have dependable translations today.

YES or NO... ???

LoveGodsWord · Jan 9, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
I have been reading scripture over 70 years and at one time over 5 years in a stretch reading nothing but scripture.

This has given me a 'big picture' appreciation of His truth rather than a myopic view that has pharisaical knowledge but little appreciation of Him.

As I have raised before - if you cant reason - you are not in His Wisdom. (Jas 3:17)

Are you suggesting God is not dwelling outside of time?

Are you suggesting that God is not in His seventh day of creation?

Are you suggesting that He is not inviting us to enter His rest through the finished Word of Christ by faith?

The Jewish scholars and teachers of the Mosiac law and guardians of the sacred scriptures and Word of God had also been studying the scriptures all their lives as well using perfect scripture translations and taught them to other Jews yet they were the very ones that killed the prophets and Jesus to who those scriptures were speaking of, calling his followers a "sect" *Acts of the Apostles 24:25; Acts of the Apostles 28:22 and Jesus of the devil *John 8:31-48 "He came unto His own but His own received Him not... *John 1:1-14. No one can know the truth of Gods' Word if God's Spirit is not their guide and teacher (John 16:13; John 7:17: John 14:26) and God only gives His Spirit to those who believe and follow what His Word says according to the scriptures (see Acts of the Apostles 5:32). So making arguments that we have been studying the scriptures all of our life is not an argument that someone knows the truth of God's Word. The simple fact is Carl if you have no scripture that supports your teachings you have no scripture to support your teachings. I did ask you for scripture. You provided an opinion which is not scriptures. Of course you are free to believe and do whatever you wish however if there is no scripture to support our opinions then we should at least prayerfully consider what we believe if the scriptures are in contradiction to what we believe. According to the scriptures only Gods' Words are true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that lead us to break the commandments of God according to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 (see also Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29).

Take Care.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 9, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Nonsense the question is not answered in the link provided.

Not even referred to.

Totally avoided.

Simple question - has God watched over the process of modern translations to make sure we have dependable translations today.

YES or NO... ???

Let's be truthful Carl. Please see Post # 321 linked. Go re-read it. I am happy to re-post it again here if you continue making claims that I have not answered your question when the linked post proves that I did directly answer your question. Perhaps you missed it or did not read the linked post? Let me know if you still want to make claims that I did not answer your question and I will prove to you that your question was indeed answered and your claims that your question was not answered here are not true.

Take care Carl

Carl Emerson · Jan 9, 2022

LGW- I apologise, I missed the sentence that referred to the question among all the other comments that were unrelated.

LoveGodsWord said:
Of course God's hand is over His Word. That does not mean that every translation is a perfect translation and neither does it mean you can only know the truth of God's Word if the translation your reading is a perfect translation.

It worries me that you lean on an obscure translation to support your dogma when 60+ translations do not agree with your preferred wording...

If you are correct then the majority of translations cant be trusted.

LoveGodsWord · Jan 9, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
LGW- I apologise, I missed the sentence that referred to the question among all the other comments that were unrelated.

It worries me that you lean on an obscure translation to support your dogma when 60+ translations do not agree with your preferred wording...

If you are correct then the majority of translations cant be trusted.

Thanks Carl. No worries at all. It means a lot.

Take Care.

BobRyan · Jan 9, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Bob, you raise an important issue.

Personally I have seen little evidence that apologetics is a successful tool in evangelism.

Evangelism is full of arguments from sound reasoning. It often begins with "the Bible as the Word of God " -- proving that God's Word is inspired and pointing to some of the very obvious details/choices that we see in the OP. The NT writers themselves argue this point. And as Paul is forced to do in Acts 17 he makes his case based on what his hearers already know to be true -- and works from there.

There is no news here.

Carl Emerson said:
However there is strong support for persuasive dialogue with the unsaved as we see with Paul on Mars Hill.

Paul uses persuasive logic and sound reasoning with "brothers" and "God fearers" in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 - persuading them NOT from NT texts but from the OT texts that they already accept.

Carl Emerson said:
Presenting risk may bring rational response but not change necessarily of heart.

I belong to what Christianity Today call the fastest growing Christian denomination -

Almost no atheist is converted without sound reasoning.

Almost not Christian makes a change from one denomination to this one without a lot of Bible study and sound reasoning to "see IF those things are SO" Act 17:11.

This gets to "the basics" of the sound reasoning that the NT authors call for.

As noted on page one of this thread --

BobRyan said:
Christ gives a great example of making a strong logical argument with his hostile-audicence enemies in Matt 22 for defending the doctrine of the future resurrection. In Mark 7:6-13 Christ makes a strong logical argument with his opposers regarding their bogus traditions that are in opposition to the Word of God.

In Matt 22 Christ's stellar logic "silenced the Sadducees" as the Pharisees themselves admitted.

Some may claim that we could be equally as successful making statements that don't make sense -- I disagree.

A great many atheists have become Christian - including one reading this thread - and they did so because of issues like #1 in the OP. But I have yet to find even one that claimed they came to be a Christian while Atheist because of the force of the statement "I don't think my atheism is giving God glory".

===================

Peter says not to give lame arguments.

1 Peter 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, but with gentleness and respect

Paul agrees.

Titus 1:7 For the overseer must be beyond reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not overindulging in wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, self-controlled, righteous, holy, disciplined, 9 holding firmly the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

It does not say "able to contradict those who contradict" but rather "able to refute those who contradict". In some circles merely name-calling and contradicting is "enough" -- and is all that should be asked of them in their own POV. Scripture does not agree.

Rom 12:3
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

1 Tim 1:10
... immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

1Tim 4:6
In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
1 Timothy 6:3
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,

2 Timothy 1:13
Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

Titus 1:9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,

Titus 2:1
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.

Titus 2:2
Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance.

Titus 2:8
sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.
Hebrews 12:19

1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

Carl Emerson · Jan 9, 2022

BobRyan said:
Evangelism is full of arguments from sound reasoning. It often begins with "the Bible as the Word of God " -- proving that God's Word is inspired and pointing to some of the very obvious details/choices that we see in the OP. The NT writers themselves argue this point. And as Paul is forced to do in Acts 17 he makes his case based on what his hearers already know to be true -- and works from there.

There is no news here.

Paul uses persuasive logic and sound reasoning with "brothers" and "God fearers" in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 - persuading them NOT from NT texts but from the OT texts that they already accept.

I belong to what Christianity Today call the fastest growing Christian denomination -

Almost no atheist is converted without sound reasoning.

Almost not Christian makes a change from one denomination to this one without a lot of Bible study and sound reasoning to "see IF those things are SO" Act 17:11.

This gets to "the basics" of the sound reasoning that the NT authors call for.

As noted on page one of this thread --

I note you ignored my concerns concerning the conversion of the mind vs. the transformation of the heart.

I note you do not comment on the place of testimony and love in the process.

Both these issues are Biblical and avoid simply brainwashing folks into a mental assent to a strong reasoning rather than introducing them to a life changing relationship with Jesus.

Numbers mean nothing - the Mormon Church was once fastest growing globally.

What concerns me is that folks end up being defrauded of the transformed life He wanted for them and become little more than New Testament Pharisees.

SabbathBlessings · Jan 10, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
I note you ignored my concerns concerning the conversion of the mind vs. the transformation of the heart.

I note you do not comment on the place of testimony and love in the process.

Both these issues are Biblical and avoid simply brainwashing folks into a mental assent to a strong reasoning rather than introducing them to a life changing relationship with Jesus.

Numbers mean nothing - the Mormon Church was once fastest growing globally.

What concerns me is that folks end up being defrauded of the transformed life He wanted for them and become little more than New Testament Pharisees.

The Pharisees were the ones who added extra rules that was not coming from God. They made the Sabbath a day of punishment instead of the day of rest and holy communion with our Creator and Redeemer. They accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath which of course was not true as Jesus kept all the commandments and taught them it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath by helping trapped animals and eating on the Sabbath which is not a sin and stands today. Sabbath-keeping is meant to be a joy and delight, which it is. Isaiah 58:13 We rest from our works so we can have holy communion with our Savior on the day He made holy and blessed. We do this through fellowship at Church, reading and studying God's Word, praying, appreciation of His creation though nature and doing good, which could be visiting a nursing home, sharing the Word with non-believers, rescuing animals. In return, God gives us His Spiritual rest. We can lay aside all of our burdens from the week and rest in Him, It's Glorious and meant to be a blessing. It is conditional though through our obedience such as all the promises of the bible are conditional. Obedience to the law is our tutor to Christ Galatians 3:24 and once learned, you obey because you love. God's Ten Commandments came in a covenant of Ten Exodus 34:28 there is not a 10% discount on the commandments of God. The seventh day Sabbath is God's holy day from undisputed scripture Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13, Mark 2:28. God wants us to keep holy the same day that is also holy to Him Exodus 20:8 and God rested on the seventh day as our example (God does not need rest) and Jesus kept the Sabbath as our example Luke 4:16. Not following the example of God and Jesus or the 4th commandment that is a risk discussed on the OP.

Carl Emerson · Jan 10, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
The Pharisees were the ones who added extra rules that was not coming from God. They made the Sabbath a day of punishment instead of the day of rest and holy communion with our Creator and Redeemer. They accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath which of course was not true as Jesus kept all the commandments and taught them it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath by helping trapped animals and eating on the Sabbath which is not a sin and stands today. Sabbath-keeping is meant to be a joy and delight, which it is. Isaiah 58:13 We rest from our works so we can have holy communion with our Savior on the day He made holy and blessed. We do this through fellowship at Church, reading and studying God's Word, praying, appreciation of His creation though nature and doing good, which could be visiting a nursing home, sharing the Word with non-believers, rescuing animals. In return, God gives us His Spiritual rest. We can lay aside all of our burdens from the week and rest in Him, It's Glorious and meant to be a blessing. It is conditional though through our obedience such as all the promises of the bible are conditional. Obedience to the law is our tutor to Christ Galatians 3:24 and once learned, you obey because you love. God's Ten Commandments came in a covenant of Ten Exodus 34:28 there is not a 10% discount on the commandments of God. The seventh day Sabbath is God's holy day from undisputed scripture Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13, Mark 2:28. God wants us to keep holy the same day that is also holy to Him Exodus 20:8 and God rested on the seventh day as our example (God does not need rest) and Jesus kept the Sabbath as our example Luke 4:16. Not following the example of God and Jesus or the 4th commandment that is a risk discussed on the OP.

Is there a risk that those who don't keep the Saturday Sabbath are receiving the Mark of the Beast?

SabbathBlessings · Jan 10, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Is there a risk that those who don't keep the Saturday Sabbath are receiving the Mark of the Beast?

The mark of the beast has not come yet.

The risk today is knowingly breaking one of God’s commandments. Breaking the Sabbath commandment is no different than living in perpetual adultery or being a perpetual liar and not asking God to forgive and try to gain victory over sin. We have a very merciful Savior who is more willing to forgive us of sin than we are willing to ask.

James 2:10-12, Hebrews 10:26 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7, Matthew 18:21-22, 1 John 1:9

BobRyan · Jan 10, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Is there a risk that those who don't keep the Saturday Sabbath are receiving the Mark of the Beast?

The Mark of the beast is mentioned in Rev 13 and according to that - it is still future so I don't see how that is possible.

BobRyan · Jan 10, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Bob, you raise an important issue.

Personally I have seen little evidence that apologetics is a successful tool in evangelism.

Evangelism is full of arguments from sound reasoning. It often begins with "the Bible as the Word of God " -- proving that God's Word is inspired and pointing to some of the very obvious details/choices that we see in the OP. The NT writers themselves argue this point. And as Paul is forced to do in Acts 17 he makes his case based on what his hearers already know to be true -- and works from there.

There is no news here.

Carl Emerson said:
However there is strong support for persuasive dialogue with the unsaved as we see with Paul on Mars Hill.

Paul uses persuasive logic and sound reasoning with "brothers" and "God fearers" in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 - persuading them NOT from NT texts but from the OT texts that they already accept.

Carl Emerson said:
Presenting risk may bring rational response but not change necessarily of heart.

I belong to what Christianity Today call the fastest growing Christian denomination -

Almost no atheist is converted without sound reasoning.

Almost not Christian makes a change from one denomination to this one without a lot of Bible study and sound reasoning to "see IF those things are SO" Act 17:11.

This gets to "the basics" of the sound reasoning that the NT authors call for.

As noted on page one of this thread --

BobRyan said:
Christ gives a great example of making a strong logical argument with his hostile-audicence enemies in Matt 22 for defending the doctrine of the future resurrection. In Mark 7:6-13 Christ makes a strong logical argument with his opposers regarding their bogus traditions that are in opposition to the Word of God.

In Matt 22 Christ's stellar logic "silenced the Sadducees" as the Pharisees themselves admitted.

Some may claim that we could be equally as successful making statements that don't make sense -- I disagree.

A great many atheists have become Christian - including one reading this thread - and they did so because of issues like #1 in the OP. But I have yet to find even one that claimed they came to be a Christian while Atheist because of the force of the statement "I don't think my atheism is giving God glory".

===================

Peter says not to give lame arguments.

1 Peter 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, but with gentleness and respect

Paul agrees.

Titus 1:7 For the overseer must be beyond reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not overindulging in wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, self-controlled, righteous, holy, disciplined, 9 holding firmly the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

It does not say "able to contradict those who contradict" but rather "able to refute those who contradict". In some circles merely name-calling and contradicting is "enough" -- and is all that should be asked of them in their own POV. Scripture does not agree.

Rom 12:3
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

1 Tim 1:10
... immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

1Tim 4:6
In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
1 Timothy 6:3
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,

2 Timothy 1:13
Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

Titus 1:9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,

Titus 2:1
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.

Titus 2:2
Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance.

Titus 2:8
sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.
Hebrews 12:19

1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

Carl Emerson said:
I note you ignored my concerns concerning the conversion of the mind vs. the transformation of the heart.

I note you do not comment on the place of testimony and love in the process.

Well .. we don't differ on "everything"... still I do notice you ignore every single one of those texts in that quote above.

Carl Emerson said:
Both these issues are Biblical and avoid simply brainwashing folks into a mental assent

How nice then that we have a "logical" first step towards objectivity so as to avoid all that "brainwashing".

As noted in the OP - everyone can see who "helpful" such an objective method is for the atheist in scenario #1.

Christians ought to be "at least" as objective and reasonable as the atheist is expected to be - by other Christians.

BobRyan · Jan 10, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Is there a risk that those who don't keep the Saturday Sabbath are receiving the Mark of the Beast?

Is there a risk when God says "A" and man-made-tradition says "B"? does that convey any risk at all according to Christ in Mark 7:6-13??

That question has an is easy and obvious answer even without "reaching" for a Rev 13 event still in the future.

Carl Emerson · Jan 10, 2022

BobRyan said:
Well .. we don't differ on "everything"... still I do notice you ignore every single one of those texts in that quote above.

No I don't ignore it, I just don't see joining in scriptural table tennis yields a fruitful outcome.

To summarise what you are promoting...

Reduce risk by making sure you are doing everything that God might require, to avoid going to hell.

That is not the Good News. Different Gospel.

Lastly you might note that Paul was regarded with suspicion, even fear, by the disciples - until what happened ???

He convinced them that his theology agreed with theirs?

No.

They saw evidence of God at work in His ministry - they couldn't understand his theology.

Now you don't understand mine, and unlike the disciples 'theology' is your sole focus - forget about if God is evidenced in my life - worship on Saturday or get the 'Mark' and off to eternal punishment.

Have a great day.

Carl Emerson · Jan 10, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
The mark of the beast has not come yet.

The risk today is knowingly breaking one of God’s commandments. Breaking the Sabbath commandment is no different than living in perpetual adultery or being a perpetual liar and not asking God to forgive and try to gain victory over sin. We have a very merciful Savior who is more willing to forgive us of sin than we are willing to ask.

James 2:10-12, Hebrews 10:26 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7, Matthew 18:21-22, 1 John 1:9

Will Sunday worshipers all get the 'Mark' ???

BobRyan · Jan 21, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Will Sunday worshipers all get the 'Mark' ???

ever in all of time? ... hmm - what do 'you predict?'... this thread is not about making predictions, it is about the "risk" topic in the OP.

BobRyan · Jan 21, 2022

Christ gives a great example of making a strong logical argument with his hostile-audicence enemies in Matt 22 for defending the doctrine of the future resurrection. In Mark 7:6-13 Christ makes a strong logical argument with his opposers regarding their bogus traditions that are in opposition to the Word of God.

In Matt 22 Christ's stellar logic "silenced the Sadducees" as the Pharisees themselves admitted.

Some may claim that we could be equally as successful making statements that don't make sense -- I disagree.

A great many atheists have become Christian - including one reading this thread - and they did so because of issues like #1 in the OP. But I have yet to find even one that claimed they came to be a Christian while Atheist because of the force of the statement "I don't think my atheism is giving God glory".

===================

Peter says not to give lame arguments.

1 Peter 3:15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, but with gentleness and respect

Paul agrees.

Titus 1:7 For the overseer must be beyond reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not overindulging in wine, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, self-controlled, righteous, holy, disciplined, 9 holding firmly the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.

It does not say "able to contradict those who contradict" but rather "able to refute those who contradict". In some circles merely name-calling and contradicting is "enough" -- and is all that should be asked of them in their own POV. Scripture does not agree.

Rom 12:3
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

1 Tim 1:10
... immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

1Tim 4:6
In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following.
1 Timothy 6:3
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,

2 Timothy 1:13
Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

Titus 1:9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith,

Titus 2:1
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.

Titus 2:2
Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance.

Titus 2:8
sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.
Hebrews 12:19

1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

Carl Emerson said:
I note you ignored my concerns concerning the conversion of the mind vs. the transformation of the heart.

I note you do not comment on the place of testimony and love in the process.

Well .. we don't differ on "everything"... still I do notice you ignore every single one of those texts in that quote above as well as the point in the argument it addresses

Carl Emerson said:
No I don't ignore it, I just don't see joining in scriptural table tennis yields a fruitful outcome.

Then let me explain it. A lot of folks here believe in the serious teaching of "sola scriptura testing" of all doctrine and practice so then SHOWING that the Bible commands us to accept sound logic, sound doctrine, good solid teaching - is "a key detail" not so easily dismissed, skipped-over, ignored.

Carl Emerson said:
To summarise what you are promoting...
Reduce risk by making sure you are doing everything that God might require, to avoid going to hell.

In the OP our first example is for the atheist - and his/her ability to perceive a "no-win" highly risky position. People who are considering having some elective surgery often engage in a similar "because my life matters" exercise.

This is not the "rocket science" part in my POV.

Carl Emerson said:
That is not the Good News. Different Gospel.

The Gospel has a lot more common sense "O why will you die? turn to Me and live" -- in it than you appear to have at first imagined.

There is NO risk to me if I am wrong about "certain" doctrinal positions.

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