Who was Mary? Choose the one nearest to your own view

  • Mary was immaculately conceived, a perpetual virgin, assumed in heaven and the Mother of God

  • Mary was a blessed woman and a great example to us all and the Mother of our Lord

  • Mary was just another woman

  • Other, Please explain


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narnia59

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So we actually agree! You wrote that Sola-Scriptura by definition is that the Scriptures alone are infallible and inerrant. Correct!! Not the inventions of people (men!) who add on all kinds of stuff that isn't in the Bible. Another way of saying this is that if it's not in the Bible, it's man-made! By fallible men!

If the Bible isn't the inerrant standard of the Christian faith, what is???
I agree that's the definition of sola-Scriptura. I do not agree that sola-Scriptura is Biblical. So no, we don't agree. But you knew that didn't you?

But based on that defintion of sola-Scriptura, that means that any interpretation of Scripture that you put forth can't be infallible or inerrant; it has to be considered to have the possibility of error. Your interpretation of what baptism means is no more valid than say someone of the Lutheran faith, who is also sola-Scriptura. And you disagree on what that means. Where did sola-Scriptura get you both? To separate bodies of Christendom who teach different things on a major doctrinal point.

The Bible says that the church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15) and that God's manifold wisdom will be made known through the Church (Ephesians 3:10), which are both stronger statements about truth than Scripture ever makes about itself.
 
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So we actually agree! You wrote that Sola-Scriptura by definition is that the Scriptures alone are infallible and inerrant. Correct!! Not the inventions of people (men!) who add on all kinds of stuff that isn't in the Bible. Another way of saying this is that if it's not in the Bible, it's man-made! By fallible men!

If the Bible isn't the inerrant standard of the Christian faith, what is???

Sorry, just came across this thread, so I have to ask you the same question I did on the "Queen of heaven" thread.

"For a Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - i.e., the upholder and foundation of the truth? Is it the Bible? Yes or No?"

Any other believer of Sola Scriptura response is welcomed!

Have a Blessed day!
 
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Every human person is created by God. That’s why we refer to the act of two people who reproduce as procreation – it’s a participation in God’s creative work.

“Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you; I will say to the north, Give up, and to the south, Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth, every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made.” (Isaiah 43:5-7)

I do agree she was born of the human family in the line of David. She is still a creature, created by God.




To sin would indeed be contrary to Christ’s divine nature. I simply said that he could be tempted to sin, just as Adam and Eve were tempted. Doesn’t the Bible teach that Christ went into the desert for 40 days and was tempted by Satan? Doesn’t the Bible say “For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sinning” (Hebrews 4:15)?

A perfect human being does not a god make. The Bible refers to those in heaven as the spirts of “just men made perfect” (Hebrews 12:23). We’re told by Jesus we must be “perfect as your heavenly father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48). Being in a state of sinless perfection does not make a person a “god,” it makes them a human being as God created and intended for them to be – without the parasitic infection of sin. The angels who did not follow Satan never sinned but that in no way means they are gods or divine.

Your eloquent response in no way answers you comment of............
""Being created without sin simply means Mary is in the same state that Eve was upon her creation."

Your comment was based in Catholic dogma with the intent of saying that Mary was "created like Eve with out sin".

That is totally erroneous. It is good Catholic teaching but it is NOT Bible teaching!

Firstly, all men have sinned, including Mary, and fallen short of the glory of God [Rom 3:23], and through one man sin entered the world and death spread to all men [Rom 5:12].

We as Christian believers should alwasy READ THE BOOK and do the study to show that we are workmen, approved by God.

David writing in Psalms 51:5 says that .......
"he was brought forth in iniquity and in sin when his mother conceived him"

Mary's own grandparent gives us biblical proof of mankinds sinful nature from the time of conception.

According to the law of Moses every mother that conceived, either a male or female, had to after an appointed time offer sacrifices to God: one as a burnt offering, and one as a sin offering [Lev.12].

Mary, after conceiving Jesus made these sacrifices in accordance and obedience to the Law God gave to Moses. This is clearly indicated to us in the book of Luke chap. 2 ver. 21-24, as Mary applies this very observance as is required of every Jewish woman who conceives her first born son.

Read THE BOOK in Leviticus 12 to understand what is being said, then read Luke 2:21-24.

Once reading and understanding what is being said, it is clear that the offering Mary offers makes according to ... law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons. [Lk.2:24], ... the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: ... [Lev. 12:8]. The sin offering Mary gives is sufficient evidence Mary's carnality.

Mary was a human, born of a union from her human mother and father.
She was born with the sin nature of ALL HUMANS and she needed a Saviour to save her from her sin!
 
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I agree that's the definition of sola-Scriptura. I do not agree that sola-Scriptura is Biblical. So no, we don't agree. But you knew that didn't you?

But based on that defintion of sola-Scriptura, that means that any interpretation of Scripture that you put forth can't be infallible or inerrant; it has to be considered to have the possibility of error. Your interpretation of what baptism means is no more valid than say someone of the Lutheran faith, who is also sola-Scriptura. And you disagree on what that means. Where did sola-Scriptura get you both? To separate bodies of Christendom who teach different things on a major doctrinal point.

The Bible says that the church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15) and that God's manifold wisdom will be made known through the Church (Ephesians 3:10), which are both stronger statements about truth than Scripture ever makes about itself.

Sola scriptura, meaning by scripture alone, posits the Bible as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice.

Sola scriptura does not mean that any interpretation of Scripture that one puts forth can't be infallible or inerrant. It means that the Bible is infallible. Relying on the Bible as the sole source of truth is far better than relying on the fallible men that have led the Catholic church throughout the centuries. I have a perfect standard of truth to follow, not fallible men.
 
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Eve did not have original sin and Scripture says she gave birth to all the living.

There is nothing in Scripture about sola-Scriptura.

There is nothing in the Bible about the Catholic church, the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, etc. But it does say "And call no one your ‘father’ on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." Romans 23:9
 
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I agree that's the definition of sola-Scriptura. I do not agree that sola-Scriptura is Biblical. So no, we don't agree. But you knew that didn't you?

But based on that defintion of sola-Scriptura, that means that any interpretation of Scripture that you put forth can't be infallible or inerrant; it has to be considered to have the possibility of error. Your interpretation of what baptism means is no more valid than say someone of the Lutheran faith, who is also sola-Scriptura. And you disagree on what that means. Where did sola-Scriptura get you both? To separate bodies of Christendom who teach different things on a major doctrinal point.

The Bible says that the church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15) and that God's manifold wisdom will be made known through the Church (Ephesians 3:10), which are both stronger statements about truth than Scripture ever makes about itself.

Your saying "that defintion [sic] of sola-Scriptura, that means that any interpretation of Scripture that you put forth can't be infallible or inerrant" is clearly wrong. It shows that you don't understand sola scriptura. It means that the Bible is inerrant, not one's interpretation.

It is absurd to think that the fallible men who lead the Catholic church are infallible. I trust God's wisdom and direction as expressed in the Bible as infallible, period.
 
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Have you not yet figured out yet that any Biblical interpretation put forth by a believer in sola-Scriptura is by definition nothing more than an opinion?

No, I haven't figured that out yet. Biblical interpretation is God directly communicating to the reader through what has been written.

Of course, the Catholic church has its own opinions about Bible interpretations, most of which have little to do with Scripture. Where are Popes, Cardinals, and Bishops mentioned? Much of the Catholic doctrine and ritual, beginning with venerating Mary through exalting the Pope, Cardinals, and Bishops, depicting Christ still on the cross, following invented rituals, and other unscriptural practices, clearly show that Catholicism has gone way beyond what the Bible teaches. In other words, much of it is made up by men, not created or validated by God.

Sola scriptura!
 
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John 1:1-5, " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it."

There is no mention of the church here. Or here...

John 3:16-18, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

The Catholic church is a man-made institution that depends on the teaching of men instead of the Bible.
 
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narnia59

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Your eloquent response in no way answers you comment of............
""Being created without sin simply means Mary is in the same state that Eve was upon her creation."

Your comment was based in Catholic dogma with the intent of saying that Mary was "created like Eve with out sin".

That is totally erroneous. It is good Catholic teaching but it is NOT Bible teaching!

Firstly, all men have sinned, including Mary, and fallen short of the glory of God [Rom 3:23], and through one man sin entered the world and death spread to all men [Rom 5:12].
The statement by St. Paul that “all have sinned” does not tell us that Mary sinned. You have to, as you say, “read the book” and “do the study.” And the study you need to do is how the Bible uses the word “all.”

For example, if you move ahead two chapters, St. Paul says that “Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned (Romans 5:12). Yet the Bible records two men who did not die – Elijah and Enoch. Is St. Paul in error when he says that all have died?

He also says that “Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men (Romans 5:18). Since Paul says that Christ’s act of righteousness lead to acquittal for all men, are you going to profess that all men are now saved? If not, why do you think when St. Paul says that “all have sinned” that is evidence Mary sinned?

Mark’s Gospel tells us that “all” the people of Jerusalem came out to be baptized by John. So I guess you think that means Herod came out, and all the Roman soldiers, and all the Pharisees? Of course you wouldn’t profess that. So why do you profess that when St. Paul says that “all” have sinned that is evidence that Mary sinned?

Charles Spurgeon provides an insight based on that passage and the Biblical usage of the word “all.”

"Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were 'of God?' The words 'world' and 'all' are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that 'all' means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts—some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Particular Redemption, A Sermon, 28 Feb 1858).

And if you look at the context when St. Paul pens “all have sinned” it is exactly as Spurgeon indicates – he is signifying that both the Jews and Gentiles are equally in need of redemption, not that all individuals have sinned. Christ has acquitted "all men" tells us that both the Jews and the Gentiles have been saved by Christ, not that all individuals are acquitted. Death has come to "all men" tells us that death came to both the Jews and the Gentiles because of sin, not that every individual who has ever lived has died.

And none of it tells us anything about the person of Mary.



We as Christian believers should alwasy READ THE BOOK and do the study to show that we are workmen, approved by God.
That's why you should do a study on how the Bible uses the word "all" before you profess that Scripture teaches that Mary sinned.

And how exactly were the Christians from the first 18 centuries of Christianity supposed to READ THE BOOK and do the study to show that we are workmen, approved by God?
 
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narnia59

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David writing in Psalms 51:5 says that .......
"he was brought forth in iniquity and in sin when his mother conceived him"

Mary's own grandparent gives us biblical proof of mankinds sinful nature from the time of conception.

According to the law of Moses every mother that conceived, either a male or female, had to after an appointed time offer sacrifices to God: one as a burnt offering, and one as a sin offering [Lev.12].

Mary, after conceiving Jesus made these sacrifices in accordance and obedience to the Law God gave to Moses. This is clearly indicated to us in the book of Luke chap. 2 ver. 21-24, as Mary applies this very observance as is required of every Jewish woman who conceives her first born son.

Read THE BOOK in Leviticus 12 to understand what is being said, then read Luke 2:21-24.

Once reading and understanding what is being said, it is clear that the offering Mary offers makes according to ... law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons. [Lk.2:24], ... the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: ... [Lev. 12:8]. The sin offering Mary gives is sufficient evidence Mary's carnality.
Is the sin offering that Jesus gives in Matthew 17:24-27(Exodus 30:13-16) sufficient evidence of Jesus’ carnality? When Jesus presents himself for John’s baptism that Scripture calls a “baptism for the repentance of sins” (Mark 1:4) is that sufficient evidence for Jesus’ carnality? Of course not.

There are “sin” or “guilt” offerings commanded in the Old Testament related to personal sin. There are also offerings commanded to everyone as part of the communal atonement. Participating in an offering related to the community does not prove individual or personal sin. If it did, when Christ paid the temple tax it would be evidence he had sinnned.

A woman giving birth to a child is not a personal sin, then or now, and to profess it is a sin for a woman to give birth to a child is absurd.



Mary was a human, born of a union from her human mother and father.
She was born with the sin nature of ALL HUMANS and she needed a Saviour to save her from her sin!

Mary was indeed a human, born of a union from her mother and father.

She did indeed need a Savior to save her from sin.

But she was not born with a sin nature. The angel referred to her as “full of grace” – not as an adjective but rather as a TITLE.
 
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narnia59

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Sola scriptura, meaning by scripture alone, posits the Bible as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice.

Sola scriptura does not mean that any interpretation of Scripture that one puts forth can't be infallible or inerrant. It means that the Bible is infallible. Relying on the Bible as the sole source of truth is far better than relying on the fallible men that have led the Catholic church throughout the centuries. I have a perfect standard of truth to follow, not fallible men.
Relying on the Bible as the sole source of truth means relying on fallible interpretations of men. There is no getting around that. Yes the Bible is perfect, but you are not and your interpretation has no guarantee to be perfect. You are just as fallible of a man (or woman) as the men who have led the Catholic church throughout the centuries.

The guarantee that God gives for the pillar and ground of the truth is the Church however. Not individual sola-Scripturists.
 
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narnia59

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There is nothing in the Bible about the Catholic church, the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, etc. But it does say "And call no one your ‘father’ on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." Romans 23:9
I think you mean Matthew 23:9.

On whether to call our priests “father,” Catholics follow the guidance of the apostles in this regard who evidently knew that Christ’s words weren’t to be taken literally and the relationship between church leaders and those in their charge was that of a father with his children.

From St. Paul telling the Gentiles that Abraham is their father by faith (Romans 4:16), or St. John referring to the believers as "little children" (1 John 5:21, 3 John 1:4), or St. Paul referring to Titus and Timothy as his "children" and he as their "father" (Titus 1:4, 1 Timothy 1:2, 1 Timothy 1:18, Philippians 2:22), or how Paul tells the Thessalonians that he is like a father with his children to them (1 Thessalonians 2:11) -- we see the relationship that the apostles had with their flocks is as one of a father to their children.

St. Paul even writes to the Corinthians that "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.” (1 Corinthians 4:14-15)

So if Catholics are wrong, so were the apostles.
 
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narnia59

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Your saying "that defintion [sic] of sola-Scriptura, that means that any interpretation of Scripture that you put forth can't be infallible or inerrant" is clearly wrong. It shows that you don't understand sola scriptura. It means that the Bible is inerrant, not one's interpretation.

It is absurd to think that the fallible men who lead the Catholic church are infallible. I trust God's wisdom and direction as expressed in the Bible as infallible, period.
If it’s absurd to think that the fallible men who lead the Catholic church are infallible, it is even more absurd to think that any fallilble person who is interpreting the Bible is infallible. That would mean that Christ left us with an infallible text but no way to know with certainty that it’s been interpreted correctly.

You are trusting in your fallilble personal interpretation of the Bible.
 
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narnia59

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No, I haven't figured that out yet. Biblical interpretation is God directly communicating to the reader through what has been written.

Of course, the Catholic church has its own opinions about Bible interpretations, most of which have little to do with Scripture. Where are Popes, Cardinals, and Bishops mentioned? Much of the Catholic doctrine and ritual, beginning with venerating Mary through exalting the Pope, Cardinals, and Bishops, depicting Christ still on the cross, following invented rituals, and other unscriptural practices, clearly show that Catholicism has gone way beyond what the Bible teaches. In other words, much of it is made up by men, not created or validated by God.

Sola scriptura!
If Biblical interpretation is God directly communicating to the reader through what has been written, how was that supposed to work the first 1800 years when there weren’t available copies of Scripture and the great majority of people couldn’t read?

And why do so many readers come to such different conclusions?

The Catholic Church has the same organizational structure as found in Scripture. There are three levels of ordination -- bishops (episkopos, 1 Timothy 3:1-2), priests (presbyteros - 1 Timothy 5:17-19), and deacons (diakonos -- 1 Timothy 3:8-13).

The Pope is simply a bishop who is in the chair of Peter, the clear leader of the apostles in Scripture.

A cardinal is simply a bishop who has the unique role of electing the successor of Peter, the Pope.
 
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narnia59

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John 1:1-5, " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God. The Word was with God in the beginning. All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. In him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. And the light shines on in the darkness, but the darkness has not mastered it."

There is no mention of the church here. Or here...

John 3:16-18, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

The Catholic church is a man-made institution that depends on the teaching of men instead of the Bible.
So you can quote two passages of Scripture that don’t mention the church, and that allows you to ignore all the passage of Scripture that do mention the church?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised; you quote a few passages that aren't flattering about Peter and that lets you ignore everything else that Scripture says about him.
 
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The statement by St. Paul that “all have sinned” does not tell us that Mary sinned. You have to, as you say, “read the book” and “do the study.” And the study you need to do is how the Bible uses the word “all.”

For example, if you move ahead two chapters, St. Paul says that “Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned (Romans 5:12). Yet the Bible records two men who did not die – Elijah and Enoch. Is St. Paul in error when he says that all have died?

He also says that “Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men (Romans 5:18). Since Paul says that Christ’s act of righteousness lead to acquittal for all men, are you going to profess that all men are now saved? If not, why do you think when St. Paul says that “all have sinned” that is evidence Mary sinned?

Mark’s Gospel tells us that “all” the people of Jerusalem came out to be baptized by John. So I guess you think that means Herod came out, and all the Roman soldiers, and all the Pharisees? Of course you wouldn’t profess that. So why do you profess that when St. Paul says that “all” have sinned that is evidence that Mary sinned?

Charles Spurgeon provides an insight based on that passage and the Biblical usage of the word “all.”

"Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were 'of God?' The words 'world' and 'all' are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that 'all' means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts—some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted his redemption to either Jew or Gentile." (Charles H. Spurgeon, Particular Redemption, A Sermon, 28 Feb 1858).

And if you look at the context when St. Paul pens “all have sinned” it is exactly as Spurgeon indicates – he is signifying that both the Jews and Gentiles are equally in need of redemption, not that all individuals have sinned. Christ has acquitted "all men" tells us that both the Jews and the Gentiles have been saved by Christ, not that all individuals are acquitted. Death has come to "all men" tells us that death came to both the Jews and the Gentiles because of sin, not that every individual who has ever lived has died.

And none of it tells us anything about the person of Mary.




That's why you should do a study on how the Bible uses the word "all" before you profess that Scripture teaches that Mary sinned.

And how exactly were the Christians from the first 18 centuries of Christianity supposed to READ THE BOOK and do the study to show that we are workmen, approved by God?

There is no indication anywhere in my Bible that Mary did not sin. She was a teenager, chosen by God to bear His son in human form. Nothing more.

I have stated previously that the Catholic depiction of Mary is founded on a cultural belief to exalt women to a level of perfection that is unattainable. She was chosen by God for a specific task, not because she was divine but because someone had to become pregnant and deliver the Lord.
 
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narnia59

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There is no indication anywhere in my Bible that Mary did not sin. She was a teenager, chosen by God to bear His son in human form. Nothing more.

I have stated previously that the Catholic depiction of Mary is founded on a cultural belief to exalt women to a level of perfection that is unattainable. She was chosen by God for a specific task, not because she was divine but because someone had to become pregnant and deliver the Lord.
There is no explicit statement in Scripture about whether Mary did not sin, or that she did sin. Which is why it’s always puzzling to me why someone who professes to believe in sola-Scriptura would try to make the argument that the Bible proves that Mary sinned.

Christ exalts all people to a level of perfection – “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48). And this standard absolutely is attainable, by God’s grace. As St. Paul writes “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Philippians 4:13). Perfection is our destiny.

But God’s grace is not given equally to all, but is rather varied (1 Peter 4:10-11) based upon his gifts, which are unique to each of us (1 Corinthians 7:7, Romans 12:4-6). Paul writes in Ephesians 4:4-7 that while there is one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism etc – he finishes with this statement – “But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.”

Unfortunately, many have developed a mindset of Christ’s kingdom of being more like a democracy than a true kingdom. Even though Scripture tells us that out gifts are varied and that grace is given according to the measure of those gifts, we reject that concept in some false sense of “fairness,” rather than realizing the King can do with his gifts what he sees fit.

And Catholics simply believe that choosing Mary to be the singular person in all eternity from whom our Creator would take flesh and become his mother is the most profound gift of all, and with it came an abundance of grace unique to the gift.
 
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pescador

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There is no explicit statement in Scripture about whether Mary did not sin, or that she did sin. Which is why it’s always puzzling to me why someone who professes to believe in sola-Scriptura would try to make the argument that the Bible proves that Mary sinned.

Christ exalts all people to a level of perfection – “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48). And this standard absolutely is attainable, by God’s grace. As St. Paul writes “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Philippians 4:13). Perfection is our destiny.

But God’s grace is not given equally to all, but is rather varied (1 Peter 4:10-11) based upon his gifts, which are unique to each of us (1 Corinthians 7:7, Romans 12:4-6). Paul writes in Ephesians 4:4-7 that while there is one body, one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism etc – he finishes with this statement – “But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.”

Unfortunately, many have developed a mindset of Christ’s kingdom of being more like a democracy than a true kingdom. Even though Scripture tells us that out gifts are varied and that grace is given according to the measure of those gifts, we reject that concept in some false sense of “fairness,” rather than realizing the King can do with his gifts what he sees fit.

And Catholics simply believe that choosing Mary to be the singular person in all eternity from whom our Creator would take flesh and become his mother is the most profound gift of all, and with it came an abundance of grace unique to the gift.

Since there is nothing in the Bible that Mary was sinless then the universal statement of Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" holds true. It doesn't say "all but Mary have sinned". So those of us who believe the Bible (as opposed to manufactured doctrine) know the truth, and it sets us free.

That is the opposite of manufactured doctrine to fit one's presupposition. If you can show me in the Bible that it says that Mary specifically was without sin, then show me where.
 
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Fidelibus

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Since there is nothing in the Bible that Mary was sinless then the universal statement of Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" holds true.

So, yourself being a self admitted adherent of Sola Scriptura, (the bible alone) it is your belief that the "all" in this passage (Rom.3:23) is an absolute, and that 'all' absolutely and literally means 'all' with no exception?

Have a Blessed Day
 
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narnia59

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Since there is nothing in the Bible that Mary was sinless then the universal statement of Romans 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" holds true. It doesn't say "all but Mary have sinned". So those of us who believe the Bible (as opposed to manufactured doctrine) know the truth, and it sets us free.

That is the opposite of manufactured doctrine to fit one's presupposition. If you can show me in the Bible that it says that Mary specifically was without sin, then show me where.

“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” only holds true for the context it’s written. Both Jews and Gentiles need redemption. It has no context to individual people.

Just as when Paul writes two chapters later -- ”so death spread to all men because all men sin” – the context is that both Jews and Gentiles have experienced death because of sin. We know that “all” here isn’t referring to all individuals because all did not experience death. To try to make the context of the first “all” be different than the second “all” in the short phrase ”so death spread to all men because all men sin” would be poor scholarship indeed.

I’m not sola-Scriptura; I don’t need an explicit statement that Mary did not sin. You should require one for yourself that she did sin however before professing that as truth.

I do believe the fact that she was sinless is reflected in Scripture. For one thing, when she is addressed by the angel Gabriel, he refers to her as “full of grace.” He doesn’t use it as an adjective to describe her; he uses it as her name, a title. The Greek word used in that passage is “Kecharitomene.” My understanding is that is in the perfect tense of the word, which would indicate both a past and present form. Regardless of whether you accept that, it is a unique form of the word of the Greek root word for grace charis, and is used exclusively in Scripture for Mary.

I think Mary herself tells us she is sinless when she professes that “My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my savior” Luke 1:46-47). To magnify means to enlarge or bring into focus. I have searched the Scriptures for another instance when a person’s soul is referred to in this way and I have never found anything even remotely close. A soul marred by sin would not “magnify” the Lord; a perfectly sanctified soul would.

Aside from those clues about the state of Mary’s soul, I have no doubt that as a culture we have absolutely lost the sense of the sacred known to the Jewish people. Moses removed his sandals when he approached the holy ground of the burning bush. There are pages and pages of Scripture devoted to the construction of the tent of the meeting and the ark of the covenant and how they were perfectly sanctified before God came to dwell there among His people. To understand it is perfectly fitting for the woman that the King of Kings would take flesh from and dwell within would be perfectly sanctified from sin is consistent with how Scripture teaches us over and over again that God is Holy.
 
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