New Interpretation of the bible

messianist said:

That not how I view it across the board, that is exactly how the other people also think in relation to my responses?

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I meant that everyone thinks they are right and "the opposers" to anything are wrong.
My team is best, yours sucks. My religion is right, yours is bunk. The South was right, the North was wrong. Conservatives care about family, Liberals eat babies. Etc.

SkyWriting said:

I meant that everyone thinks they are right and "the opposers" to anything are wrong.
My team is best, yours sucks. My religion is right, yours is bunk. The South was right, the North was wrong. Conservatives care about family, Liberals eat babies. Etc.

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Yes get what you're saying, the thing with scripture is almost everyone sees it differently, having spent time with people from different denominations and online, whatever topic comes up there isn't across the board understanding of it, it's always scattered, I find that is a clear indication something is not right, I may not be putting my point across well as it's not a strong point for me I'm far better to face to face when I explain things,

Irkle Berserkle said:

Hence the ecumenical councils.

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I don't know a thing about them.
I've been to Sunday Classes though.

Irkle Berserkle said:

It's amusing how many Christians think the faith is divided into Catholicism and Protestantism and aren't even aware that Orthodoxy exists or has the strongest claim to maintaining an unbroken lineage from the Apsotles.

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Sigh, as a church tour guide during Greek festivals, I always have a number of people who have never heard of the Orthodox church. After one tour, I had someone ask if we still worshiped Zeus.

One friend of mine told me about someone asking a Russian priest "What makes you different from other Protestants?"

Irkle Berserkle said:

It's also significant that a number of the "modern" revisions of doctrine have their roots in early heresies that were specifically condemned. Surely the increase in liberal theology is one of the signs we're in some stage of the End Times.

The Orthodox make the valid point that the supposed sola scriptura of Protestantism has resulted in thousands, if not tens of thousands, of competing understandings of Scripture. Sola scriptura ends up really being "my understanding of Scripture" versus "your understanding of Scripture" versus "their understanding of Scripture."

There is a branch of Protestantism called "paleo-orthodoxy" that, like Orthodoxy, focuses primarily on the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers as well as Scripture. Thomas C. Oden was one of the leading exponents. His Classic Christianity is one of the better systematic theologies I have found: Classic Christianity: A Systematic Theology: Oden, Thomas C.: 9780061449710: Amazon.com: Books.

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Indeed, I am at present serving as a Paleo-Orthodox Protestant minister, but I have in the past been a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church and have maintained close connections with it and with the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East, and I will probably join them again in the future once I feel my current vocational assignment is complete.

SkyWriting said:

I can't think of a single Mormon involved in a morality scandal.
So I'd have to say that all Mormons have all turned out pretty close to my beliefs.
But I can come up with a long list of non-Mormon scandals.

I'm going to research Mormon scandals now.

OK...I did find sexual abuse issues. Certainly not unique ones though.

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I can think of a huge number, and we’re talking LDS, not members of the Warren Jeffs Colorado City FLDS polygamist breakaway cult, starting with Joseph Smith.

One particularly salacious episode was the murder connected with the forged Salamander Scripture, the subject of a Netflix documentary called Murder among the Mormons.

In the 19th century the Mormons also mass-murdered non-Mormon migrants passing through Utah on their way West in the infamous Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Frankly one reason why I have not explored more aggressive proselytizing against Mormons despite the large number of them in my mission field is a fear of retribution. They have a doctrine called Blood Atonement, which I believe is a major reason why Utah is the only state where the firing squad is still a method of execution. The LDS has lost much of the power it once wielded over Salt Lake City but remains dominant over Utah politics as a whole.

GreekOrthodox said:

I'm with you on that. There are 17 canonically Orthodox churches (Greek, Russian, Bulgarian etc), but we are in union on doctrine. Even within the non-canonical groups can be lumped into 2-3 categories rather than 10.

I also wonder how they count a church like "The Orthodox Presbyterian Church", the largest of the conservative Prebysterian churches. Orthodox? Presbyterian? Both?

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17? I count only 16 autocephalous churches including the OCA and the OCU, whose canonicity is disputed - not counting Macedonia, which for the moment is still schismatic, or any autonomous churches, including ROCOR, which was for a time autocephalous before its reunion with the Moscow Patriarchate, although ROCOR is very highly autonomous and as close to autocephaly as possible.

1. Albania
2. Alexandria
3. Antioch
4. Bulgaria
5. Cyprus
6. Czech Lands and Slovakia
7. Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople
8. Georgia
9. Church of Greece
10. Jerusalem
11. Orthodox Church in America (Disputed by Constantinople)
12. Orthodox Church in Ukraine (Disputed by Russia)
13. Poland
14. Romania
15. Russia
16. Serbia

The Liturgist said:

I can think of a huge number, and we’re talking LDS, not members of the Warren Jeffs Colorado City FLDS polygamist breakaway cult, starting with Joseph Smith.

One particularly salacious episode was the murder connected with the forged Salamander Scripture, the subject of a Netflix documentary called Murder among the Mormons.

In the 19th century the Mormons also mass-murdered non-Mormon migrants passing through Utah on their way West in the infamous Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Frankly one reason why I have not explored more aggressive proselytizing against Mormons despite the large number of them in my mission field is a fear of retribution. They have a doctrine called Blood Atonement, which I believe is a major reason why Utah is the only state where the firing squad is still a method of execution. The LDS has lost much of the power it once wielded over Salt Lake City but remains dominant over Utah politics as a whole.

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Not because proselytizing is useless? Jesus never suggested such a thing.

GreekOrthodox said:

Sigh, as a church tour guide during Greek festivals, I always have a number of people who have never heard of the Orthodox church. After one tour, I had someone ask if we still worshiped Zeus.

One friend of mine told me about someone asking a Russian priest "What makes you different from other Protestants?"

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I am surprised at the Orthodox church, how it could have been invisible for so long. I know from church history, you guys go way back.

You need to stand up and make people aware of your vast history.

The Liturgist said:

17? I count only 16 autocephalous churches including the OCA and the OCU, whose canonicity is disputed - not counting Macedonia, which for the moment is still schismatic, or any autonomous churches, including ROCOR, which was for a time autocephalous before its reunion with the Moscow Patriarchate, although ROCOR is very highly autonomous and as close to autocephaly as possible.

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That's my mistake. I wasnt doing a hard count but just going off a number in my noggin. Ill let you do all the hard work for me

klutedavid said:

I am surprised at the Orthodox church, how it could have been invisible for so long. I know from church history, you guys go way back.

You need to stand up and make people aware of your vast history.

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We're still a new religion to most Americans. We still have parishes that do everything in the mother tongue so we're inaccessible in some ways. Orthodoxy has also been unwelcome in America. There were laws passed to limit immigration from eastern Europe. The Greeks in 1922 formed the American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association (AHEPA) to combat the KKK Greek Town riot - Wikipedia . The Russians, well, the Cold war. Antiochians, they speak Arabic. It was only after the rise of Patriarch Iakavos who put the Orthodox church front and center in American culture.

GreekOrthodox said:

We're still a new religion to most Americans. We still have parishes that do everything in the mother tongue so we're inaccessible in some ways. Orthodoxy has also been unwelcome in America. There were laws passed to limit immigration from eastern Europe. The Greeks in 1922 formed the American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association (AHEPA) to combat the KKK Greek Town riot - Wikipedia . The Russians, well, the Cold war. Antiochians, they speak Arabic. It was only after the rise of Patriarch Iakavos who put the Orthodox church front and center in American culture.

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I disagree; I think St. Tikhon of Moscow and St. Rafael Tawaheeny made the Orthodox Church visible, and in fact, the two, working with Anglo Catholics, attempted to enter into full communion with the Episcopal Church, and even after the low churchmen scuppered that, St. Rafael still authorized Antiochians, who by the way adopted English on moving to America to the fullest extent possible, as much as the Greeks and Russians, to receive pastoral care from Episcopalians if they migrated to places where there was no Orthodox church. Needless to say this directive is no longer in effect; Orthodox-Episcopalian relations almost collapsed in the 1970s, but were already destabilized by people like Bishop Pike of San Francisco.

During the Cold War, I would argue persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church and the iconic image of St. Basils cathedral made it the most high profile Orthodox Church. Greek Orthodoxy’s moment in the sun started in the 1960s in America, with a boom in tourism to Greece, fascination with Jackie Kennedy and her marriage to Aristotle Onassis, and films set in Greece, such as the late 1960s Walt Disney classic Moonspinners, becoming more common. And then you had the King overthrown by the Colonels and that bolstered the image of the Orthodox as the persecuted church.

The Liturgist said:

I disagree; I think St. Tikhon of Moscow and St. Rafael Tawaheeny made the Orthodox Church visible, and in fact, the two, working with Anglo Catholics, attempted to enter into full communion with the Episcopal Church, and even after the low churchmen scuppered that, St. Rafael still authorized Antiochians, who by the way adopted English on moving to America to the fullest extent possible, as much as the Greeks and Russians, to receive pastoral care from Episcopalians if they migrated to places where there was no Orthodox church.

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The other big event was the conversion of about 2000 people from the Evangelical Orthodox Church into the Antiochians in California. This body was started by a couple of Campus Crusaders who began to dig into church history and discovered the Orthodox church.

GreekOrthodox said:

The other big event was the conversion of about 2000 people from the Evangelical Orthodox Church into the Antiochians in California. This body was started by a couple of Campus Crusaders who began to dig into church history and discovered the Orthodox church.

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Indeed, that had a huge effect. Some also joined the OCA, and then Christ the Savior Brotherhood, which was a reformed former cult, the Holy Order Of MANS, largely joined the OCA, with some joining the Bulgarian Church.