New Interpretation of the bible

BeingThere

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There is no "trinity" officially. Just as the title "Ten Commandment's" was invented as a teaching tool.

And, when the church outlined the trinity doctrine, God's "sacred breath" was given an identity, a high-sounding name, which to me makes its presence more distant and less immediate.

Sin, or "missing the mark," sounds evil and reprehensible due to ascribing culturally upon the noun, "sin." Missing the mark is more understandable, relatable and less distant; not an entity which we must run away from, but a habit we must observe, as natural and within our moral purview.

Not to cast doubt upon any translation of a holy work, but the Greek is apparently much more conversational and relatable (say some translators; I do not read Greek yet).
 
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jamiec

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The Facts and Stats on "33,000 Denominations"
by P
Now for a few facts and stats from the actual source: World Christian Encyclopedia by Barrett, Kurian, Johnson (Oxford Univ Press, 2nd edition, 2001).

The source does refer to 33000+ total "Christian" denominations, but it defines the word "denomination" as an organized Christian group within a specific country:

'Denominations. A denomination is defined in this Encyclopedia as an organized aggregate of worship centers or congregations of similar ecclesiastical tradition within a specific country; i.e. as an organized Christian church or tradition or religious group or community of believers, within a specific country, whose component congregations and members are called by the same denominational name in different areas, regarding themselves as one autonomous Christian church distinct from other denominations, churches and traditions. As defined here, world Christianity consists of 6 major ecclesiastico-cultural blocs, divided into 300 major ecclesiastical traditions, composed of over 33,000 distinct denominations in 238 countries, these denominations themselves being composed of over 3,400,000 worship centers, churches or congregations.' (Barrett et al, volume 1, page 16, Table 1-5, emphasis added)

So we have, according to Barrett's Encyclopedia:

a denomination is defined as existing within a specific country
there are 33,000+ total of these "Christian denominations" in 238 total countries
These 33,000 are subdivided into "6 major ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs", and ordering them by denomination size we have (I am rounding up or down slightly for convenience, using year 2000 figures) :

Independents (about 22000)
Protestants (about 9000)
"Marginals" (about 1600)
Orthodox (781)
Roman Catholics (242)
Anglicans (168)
So the 33,000 number is from the total of these 6 mega-blocs:

22000 + 9000 + 1600 + 781 + 242 + 168 = 33,000+
The Facts and Stats on 33000 Denominations: World Christian Encyclopedia (2001, 2nd edition)

That stupid source says there are 242 Catholic denominations. Any honest person will recognize that there is only one Catholic Church "denomination" loosely speaking.
Barrett's book counts the Catholic Church in each jurisdiction (my word) as a separate Church - so he counts 242 Catholic Churches worldwide. Even though all these 200+ are in full communion with one another, & with the Papacy, forming a single, worldwide, communion of many parts.

So the CC in Scotland, in England & Wales, in the USA, in Australia, are, for Barrett's purposes, & by the criteria he sets out & explains in his book - that those who use his stats have apparently not read - 4 separate Churches, and not 4 parts in a single world-wide Church.

The CC is separate from the bodies that are not in communion with it, such as the Old Catholic Church, the Mariavites, the Polish National Catholic Church. They are not included in the stat of 242 Catholic Churches. Likewise, there are not 168 Anglican Churches, but one Anglican Communion of many member-Churches, and a number of bodies originating in, but no longer parts of, it.

Therefore, by parity of reasoning, it follows that other communions he counts - e.g. Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Calvinism - are nowhere near as split as a careless look at his book may suggest. The Anglican Church in Spain forms a Church side by side with other Spanish Christians - but it is in full communion with Anglicans in Uganda, in Hong Kong, in England, in Scotland: these 5 Churches are not separated from each other, but are 5 Churches within the single worldwide Anglican Communion. But for Barrett's purposes, which are independent of the ecclesiologies of the various Churches, they count as 5 separate Churches, and not as 5 members of a single communion.

Equally, in Scotland, the Presbyterian Church of Scotland, the Free Church of Scotland, & the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) are three, separate, Protestant Churches. And they are each and all separate from both the Episcopalian Church in Scotland, & the Catholic Church in Scotland; as well as from Greek Orthodox & Coptic Christians in Scotland. All these 7 bodies are separate, single, unified Churches. They are evidence of the disunity among Christians - whereas counting distinct but communicating member-Churches within a single communion, is not.

Therefore, ISTM that the real number of separate Christian communions will at least be far lower than 46,000, or even than 33,000. I think these stats badly need revision. The count in the book, nation by nation, includes quasi-Christian bodies, sects & cults, which further swells the numbers.
 
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messianist

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Friend, Hebrew was my first language, my response is based on knowledge.

I did not see your answer to my question about are you...

Than again I have not read all the posts yet.
You have no knowledge
 
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klutedavid

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That's like saying that the binding, ink, paper, and print of a Bible are distractions from the Bible.
God is love.

The goal of all Christian instruction is love from a pure heart, and a sincere faith.

1 Corinthians 13
The Excellence of Love
If I speak with the tongues of mankind and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give away all my possessions to charity, and if I surrender my body so that I may glory, but do not have love, it does me no good.
 
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DamianWarS

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Tyndale translated the NT, and parts of the OT - not the whole Bible. Miles Coverdale, subsequently Bishop of Exeter under Elizabeth, finished Tyndale's work; the Coverdale Bible was published in 1537, the year following Tyndale's execution.

Tyndale's translation is a first because it's from the Hebrew and Greek

2. The 2 Wycliffite translations were made in the late 14th century, and were of the entire Bible.
The difference is his translation is from Latin

3. Parts of the Bible were translated into Old English, centuries earlier still.

...from Latin

4. Tyndale was burnt for heresy - not for translating the Bible.

What heresy was that?

1. Is that anecdote the record of something he genuinely said - or is it attributed to him on insufficient grounds ?

Tyndale's credited with it but It doesn't really matter if he said it or not, the point still holds.

2. To whom was Tyndale speaking or writing ? The anecdote is very familiar, but it is never, IME, given a context, let alone references.

It's an acecdote indeed, and that's how I use it.

That sounds rather optimistic, to say the least

I'm an optimist

That God can write straight with man's crooked lines, is no justification for the crooked lines. Accountability is not so great a good that turning what ought to be unity among Christians into a Babel of contending tongues is a price worth paying for it.

Good points but it happens to be the state of the church today.

A lot of people think certain very large, very influential, mainstream groups are heretical.

And although their doctrines have been "challenged", those groups don't "renounce" them.

There's a lot more information available for us to make informed decisions of these groups or teachings. They capture many and the Bible is not without its own warnings against such things. The corporate church as a whole is not a biblical model, and although that's an unpopular view I don't get ostracized for speaking it but it wasn't too long ago where that was not the case. People can fact check the preacher right from the pew today and that really only been a reality accessible to most in the recent 10 and even as little as 5 years.
 
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messianist

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God is love.

The goal of all Christian instruction is love from a pure heart, and a sincere faith.

1 Corinthians 13
The Excellence of Love
If I speak with the tongues of mankind and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give away all my possessions to charity, and if I surrender my body so that I may glory, but do not have love, it does me no good.
That’s one of his attributes
 
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jamiec

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God is love.

The goal of all Christian instruction is love from a pure heart, and a sincere faith.

1 Corinthians 13
The Excellence of Love
If I speak with the tongues of mankind and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give away all my possessions to charity, and if I surrender my body so that I may glory, but do not have love, it does me no good.
That is not a reason to separate Christian ethics from Christianity.

It is pointless to emphasise the importance of αγαπη-love, unless one provides some guidance as to what that implies - IOW, unless one spells out some of the implications of αγαπη-love. For example, is it consistent with αγαπη-love to:

have a same-sex boyfriend
own slaves
carry out an abortion
tell the police one's husband is likely to be a wanted criminal
marry a Christian of a different Church
marry someone of a different religion
put down one's sick dog
"pull the plug" on a terminally ill relative
drink alcohol
eat flesh meat
wear unisex clothes
favour the death penalty
earn one's living by making weapons ?

All these are either real, or entirely possible, choices for Christians to be making. To direct them to practice αγαπη-love, though good advice so far as it goes, is far too vague. Which is why Christianity both needs ethics, and, is an inescapably ethical form of religion. Christians are entirely capable of loving wrong things, of loving in the wrong measure, or of loving from bad motives - another reason that telling them to love, is not enough.
 
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messianist

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That seems an impossibly high figure. I want to see the evidence for it.

Protestants are the neighbours of other Christians - so those other Christians have a duty not to exaggerate the divisions among Protestants. I would like to see mention of the many bonds - visible & invisible - among Protestants. To mention only their visible divisions, is to leave the reader with a distorted picture.

And, the divisions in Protestantism affect all Christians - most definitely including non-Protestants. Conversely, every blessing granted to Protestantism in any of its parts, is in some way or measure a blessing to other Protestants, & to non-Protestant Christians well.

Besides, their human divisions are no bar to God's using them. If God were disabled by human sin, He would be totally helpless. The historical, human, fact of divisions upon Earth is never the whole story, because it leaves out what God does.
There is a way that seems right to man ….
 
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klutedavid

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That is not a reason to separate Christian ethics from Christianity.

It is pointless to emphasise the importance of αγαπη-love, unless one provides some guidance as to what that implies - IOW, unless one spells out some of the implications of αγαπη-love. For example, is it consistent with αγαπη-love to:

have a same-sex boyfriend
own slaves
carry out an abortion
tell the police one's husband is likely to be a wanted criminal
marry a Christian of a different Church
marry someone of a different religion
put down one's sick dog
"pull the plug" on a terminally ill relative
drink alcohol
eat flesh meat
wear unisex clothes
favour the death penalty
earn one's living by making weapons ?

All these are either real, or entirely possible, choices for Christians to be making. To direct them to practice αγαπη-love, though good advice so far as it goes, is far too vague. Which is why Christianity both needs ethics, and, is an inescapably ethical form of religion. Christians are entirely capable of loving wrong things, of loving in the wrong measure, or of loving from bad motives - another reason that telling them to love, is not enough.
You left out about another hundred or more ethical choices.

Sounds like the law revisited, a super long list of ethical rules (laws), that no one could ever obey.

We are not commanded to be an ethical person but we are commanded to love, as Christ loved us.

If you are endeavoring to love others, you will find that you are behaving far beyond, any set of ethical behaviors.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers and sisters. The one who does not love remains in death.

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let’s love one another; for love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

1 John 4:8
The one who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
 
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klutedavid

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Yeah one of many
Love is above attributes such as all powerful, all knowing, all present.

God's nature is perfect love to it's core.

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:16
We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.

1 John 4:21
And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God must also love his brother and sister.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
 
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messianist

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Love is above attributes such as all powerful, all knowing, all present.

God's nature is perfect love to it's core.

1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:16
We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.

1 John 4:21
And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God must also love his brother and sister.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
As I said it’s one of his attributes
 
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