Can Salvation be lost?

Consider there are different levels or area of salvation.
There is spiritual salvation, and physical salvation.
You may lose the second if you are not careful. I think 1 John 5 addresses this:

15-16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

I read it this way:
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to (spiritual) death, he shall ask, and God will give him (physical) life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to (spiritual) death. There is sin that leads to (spiritual)death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to (spiritual) death.

So there is sin that leads to spiritual death and sin that only leads to physical death.
If we see someone sin a sin NOT unto spiritual death (IOWs unto physical death) then we can pray and save them from physical death.
If someone sins unto spiritual death, then we are not to pray for them.

A few passages that appear to back up this understanding:

Heb 2:
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

If we understand the word correctly, then not all sin has the same punishment. One does not execute someone for shop lifting. That is certainly a sin, but the punishment will match the transgression.

Deut 25
2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

The punishment for a sin should never exceed the sin.

There is the fornicating Corinthian:

1 Corin 5
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Again, the two punishments. One is destruction of the flesh; the other being lost in the day of the Lord.

Galatians 6 supports this understanding:

Gal 6
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

This is the basic reaping what you sow. That which you sow in the flesh, the destruction will be reaped in the flesh.

1. Salvation can be lost (Gal 5:4)
2. But it is also true that there are degrees of punishment Luke 12:47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will, will receive many blows, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed acts deserving of a beating, will receive only a few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

Al is Spirit and all is Spiritual, God is a Spirit, to know Jesus Christ is only after the Spirit.

With the Spirit of Christ in anyone, they know the Spirit, without the Spirit they know the physical, the flesh.



Destruction of the flesh is what we are required to do, to have the Spirit saved..



Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.




People cant pick on verses that seem to have unusual meanings.

Here is example.

All were dead, Christ therefore died for all ( who were dead) and living after the flesh ceased, we only know after the Spirit now.

The Gospel then was preached to all, as all were dead, now they must live according to God in the Spirit


2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.


1 Peter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.




This is simplicity in Christ for those that are as little children.

Among them they were approving of fornication...



1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.



Just go lower in the chapter and see that instruction is for all who do fornication who say they are believers with you, to out away from among yourselves that wicked person ( that is to be delivered to satan, as they are put away from the body of Christ)..



1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Deut 25
2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

The punishment for a sin should never exceed the sin.

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If there is a controversy between men...


Deuteronomy 25:1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.




Now God has a controversy with all nations and pleaded with all flesh...


Jeremiah 25:31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord.

SavedByGrace3 said:

Consider there are different levels or area of salvation.
There is spiritual salvation, and physical salvation.
You may lose the second if you are not careful. I think 1 John 5 addresses this:

15-16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

I read it this way:
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to (spiritual) death, he shall ask, and God will give him (physical) life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to (spiritual) death. There is sin that leads to (spiritual)death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to (spiritual) death.

So there is sin that leads to spiritual death and sin that only leads to physical death.
If we see someone sin a sin NOT unto spiritual death (IOWs unto physical death) then we can pray and save them from physical death.
If someone sins unto spiritual death, then we are not to pray for them.

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Read from the beginning of the chapter, and we are to believe that Jesus is Jesus Christ, ( the Messiah risen from the dead by the faith of the operation of God) and we are to love God that begat the Son of God from the dead ( that is the day the Son was begotten to the Father)..


Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.



Those ones born of God, love, and do not hate in sinfulness ( doing unrighteousness).

All the sin anyone does is unrighteousness, God forgives our unrighteousness when we believe in Him and are born again...



Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



The ones born of God sin not, the ones not yet born of God sin, and that sin is not unto death, as they can confess the sins and believe God will clean them from all unrighteousness, to be born again of God ( He that is begotten of God, risen with Christ, keeps himself and the wicked one then does not touch him)..



1 John 5: 16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

BobRyan said:

1. Salvation can be lost (Gal 5:4)
2. But it is also true that there are degrees of punishment Luke 12:47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accordance with his will, will receive many blows, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed acts deserving of a beating, will receive only a few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

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Something has to be found first to then be lost.

Being debtors to do the whole law ( not the parts people pick and mix, and still break the law anyway)


Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.




Jesus speaks of those who know not the will of God.....



Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.



In the end of the chapter, Jesus speaks again of these hypocrites who say they know God but who do not know God in truth or in righteousness.

Jesus tells them, although they are in ignorance and know not God, their punishment still will be as suitable for hypocrites, delivered into the prison ( from which they shall never get out, and the beating is then, is nothing compared to the prison)..



Luke 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

messianist said:

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

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2 Corinthians 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Christian7777777 said:

2 Corinthians 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

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The joys of the lord he does not leave no forsake his people

messianist said:

The joys of the lord he does not leave no forsake his people

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Jonah 2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

Do the people of the Lord ignore or hear Gods words very carefully, and they see it is they who have to forsake, TO NOT BE FORSAKEN..


Proverbs 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:

Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

messianist said:

The joys of the lord he does not leave no forsake his people

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Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Danthemailman said:

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

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Luke 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;




Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Talk gets nobody saved, nor preserved to life, it gets death for no understanding.





Proverbs 14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.


James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Christian7777777 said:

Talk gets nobody saved, nor preserved to life, it gets death for no understanding.





Proverbs 14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.


James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

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Talk is not needed he calls his people out from darkness into light guide them home

Christian7777777 said:

Jonah 2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

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For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

messianist said:

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

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Jesus did works that save us from death if we believe in what He did. To believe in what anyone claims ( teaches without deed) it is nothing. ( as faith without works is dead being alone)



Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Trivalee said:

Correction: No one has eternal life while in the flesh.

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John 5:24 does not say what you claim. It says the opposite. It clearly says he who believes HAS (as in possesses) eternal life.

It doesn't say "has a promise of a future eternal life".

Eternal life/immortality is a promise that will be redeemed FOR THOSE WHO PERSEVERED AND REMAINED FAITHFUL in Christ at the eschaton (rapture/resurrection/millennial age).

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There is NO mention of a promise in John 5:24. It speaks about POSSESSION of eternal life. Very clearly.

Please pay attention to what the bible says

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I am, but it seems that you aren't.

once saved, forever saved is unbiblical and will lead many believers to a sad end.

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I would never advise arguing against Jesus.

Je said, in John 10:28, "I give them (believers-John 5:24) eternal life and they shall never perish.

Please note that there is NO condition for recipients of eternal life to avoid perishing.

iow, recipients of eternal life shall not (cannot) perish.

How do you turn this verse into a verse that suggests one can lose eternal life?

But some of those who are against OSAS seem to take it too far. They get you saved by grace, but they put you back under the law to stay saved. So, you get saved and a few minutes later they get you lost the first time you sin. Not only do they get you lost under the law again, but they get you lost with no hope of repentance.
They call the security of the believer "Once saved always saved."
We might call their teaching "Twice lost, lost forever."