Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

Francis Drake

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francis drake



No its not, Truth is never irrelevant friend.
Except it wasn't the truth and it was irrelevant, especially when you take half a sentence and criticise it.
This is what you quoted, "The point that they can't or don't to seek after God is completely irrelevant"
The following is what I actually said, which any intelligent person can see gives a completely different meaning to the half quote shown above.-
"The point that they can't or don't to seek after God is completely irrelevant for the simple reason that every single man since Adam has the revelation of God already in their heart."

If you want to challenge that statement fine, but do the full statement and do it honestly!
 
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Brightfame52

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Man by nature cannot and does not have the ability to choose the True and Living God. God must be revealed to him, Christs very words declare this Matt 11:27

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Its Christs mission to give some, not all a True Spiritual knowledge of God Jn 17:2-3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

No man by nature can or does know, choose, desire, or want, seeks the True God Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
 
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Brightfame52

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Except it wasn't the truth and it was irrelevant, especially when you take half a sentence and criticise it.
This is what you quoted, "The point that they can't or don't to seek after God is completely irrelevant"
The following is what I actually said, which any intelligent person can see gives a completely different meaning to the half quote shown above.-
"The point that they can't or don't to seek after God is completely irrelevant for the simple reason that every single man since Adam has the revelation of God already in their heart."

If you want to challenge that statement fine, but do the full statement and do it honestly!
Yes it is the truth.
 
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bling

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Man by nature cannot and does not have the ability to choose the True and Living God. God must be revealed to him, Christs very words declare this Matt 11:27

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Its Christs mission to give some, not all a True Spiritual knowledge of God
NIV starting with 25 going through 30 to give context:

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.


27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.


28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”


To begin with in verse 25 and we find out it is the wise and learned from whom the kingdom is hidden. You do not learn your way to salvation, it is by faith which a child can have.

Christ then goes on in verses 28-30 to tell us who gets the message “all you who are weary and burdened”, which is really every mature adult at some time in their life. The have to do something “Take my yoke upon you and learn from me”.

There is nothing said about “Christ’s mission to give some, not all…”, but they are to come to Him.



Jn 17:2-3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

No man by nature can or does know, choose, desire, or want, seeks the True God
NIV John 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

God gave Jesus’ authority over “all people” so he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. BUT God gave Jesus all people so “might” and not would give eternal life to all. Yes, Jesus is trying very hard to give eternal life to everyone, but people have free will and can refuse the gift.

I am not suggesting mature adult nonbelieving sinners seek God, since that action would be a worthy of something. The sinner is just accepting pure undeserved charity as pure charity, which does not make him/her deserving of the charity in any way or it would not be charity.


Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Right! Humbly accepting pure undeserved charity as charity is the opposite of working to get something, is done for selfish (selfishness being sinful) reasons, is not righteous, honorable, worthy or glorious. This warring servant of satan just: wimped out, gave up and surrendered to his hated enemy, hoping that he/she just might get a little undeserved pure charity from their enemy, even though they still hate their enemy (God).
 
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Brightfame52

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See all men by nature are spiritually dead to the True God, yet he can be alive to false gods and religion. Man naturally can choose a god, an idol from his own imagination, but he cannot choose, seek after, desire the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The word seek means :

  1. to seek out, search for
  2. to seek out, i.e. investigate, scrutinise
  3. to seek out for one's self, beg, crave
  4. to demand back, require

Man doesnt do any of these things as it regards the True and Living God

And its no coincidence its the same word that characterizes True Faith in the True God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Man naturally is at enmity against the True God in his mind , so he doesnt seek Him or desire Him Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 
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Brightfame52

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NIV starting with 25 going through 30 to give context:

25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.


27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.


28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”


To begin with in verse 25 and we find out it is the wise and learned from whom the kingdom is hidden. You do not learn your way to salvation, it is by faith which a child can have.

Christ then goes on in verses 28-30 to tell us who gets the message “all you who are weary and burdened”, which is really every mature adult at some time in their life. The have to do something “Take my yoke upon you and learn from me”.

There is nothing said about “Christ’s mission to give some, not all…”, but they are to come to Him.





Right! Humbly accepting pure undeserved charity as charity is the opposite of working to get something, is done for selfish (selfishness being sinful) reasons, is not righteous, honorable, worthy or glorious. This warring servant of satan just: wimped out, gave up and surrendered to his hated enemy, hoping that he/she just might get a little undeserved pure charity from their enemy, even though they still hate their enemy (God).
Man by nature cannot and does not have the ability to choose the True and Living God.
 
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bling

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Man by nature cannot and does not have the ability to choose the True and Living God.
Sinful man cannot and I did not say he could, but sinful man for selfish reasons (being selfish is sinful) can accept pure undeserved charity from the enemy he hates (God).
 
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Christian7777777

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This contradicts scripture as God has always been accessible. If that were not true, then man would have an excuse at the judgement.

Romans1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, suppressing the truth by unrighteousness, 19because the known of God is manifest among them, for God has revealed it to them. 20For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.



You need to know God winked at the time of ignorance and now God ( through the assurance of God raising Him from the dead) commands all men every where to repent..


Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
 
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Christian7777777

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It scarcely makes sense that God would have made creation "proclaim His glory" and that all would be "without excuse" if sin had hardened us past the point of seeking Him. I believe all humans possess the sensus divinitatis (innate sense of the divine) and ability to seek God. I also believe that God calls and convicts individuals, perhaps numerous times in the course of a life. We are still responsible for how we exercise our free will in responding. I see no dichotomy in believing we all have the ability to seek God but God must call and convict.




Nobody could seek God, that is proven, as men seek the devil ( selfishness, pride and pleasure)

God calls men out of that darkness ( by the Gospel) but the condemnation was told, men love darkness rather than light ( STILL)



Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.



John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
 
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Christian7777777

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Sinful man cannot and I did not say he could, but sinful man for selfish reasons (being selfish is sinful) can accept pure undeserved charity from the enemy he hates (God).



Sure but you just quoted hidden from the wise and prudent, so it cant be hidden from them and revealed to them at the same time.
 
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See all men by nature are spiritually dead to the True God, yet he can be alive to false gods and religion. Man naturally can choose a god, an idol from his own imagination, but he cannot choose, seek after, desire the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The word seek means :

  1. to seek out, search for
  2. to seek out, i.e. investigate, scrutinise
  3. to seek out for one's self, beg, crave
  4. to demand back, require

Man doesnt do any of these things as it regards the True and Living God

And its no coincidence its the same word that characterizes True Faith in the True God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Man naturally is at enmity against the True God in his mind , so he doesnt seek Him or desire Him Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.





The Gospel and Christ are the living word and are Spirit.


They are spoken so man can see, can hear, can understand, can believe and leave all faithlessness behind, as all the Apostles did.


After Christ was risen, the Spirit was given to the Apostles and believers, in Christs rising from the dead.


Nobody can speak about it, understand it or prevent it, as godliness is a mystery, and the same as the mystery of iniquity stands for unrighteous reasoning, so the mystery of godliness is righteous judgment.

This means, God has given commandment for all men to repent, all men can repent, but all men need to seek Gods righteously, and stop hearing deceit and vain words and attempts of unrighteous men ( God is righteous who by deed layed His life down for us to live again with Him)
 
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Francis Drake

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You need to know God winked at the time of ignorance and now God ( through the assurance of God raising Him from the dead) commands all men every where to repent..
You are not making sense, are you challenging what I posted or agreeing?
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Paul wrote Romans1 and also the above, are you claiming they are somehow different?

From Adam onwards, the Holy Spirit has revealed the basic truths of God in every man's heart. If they fail to respond to God, then they will have absolutely no excuse at the judgement. This applies to OT and NT periods.
 
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Brightfame52

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Sinful man cannot and I did not say he could, but sinful man for selfish reasons (being selfish is sinful) can accept pure undeserved charity from the enemy he hates (God).
Thats a negative. Man naturally is in opposition to God and cannot and will not be subject to Him. He hates the True God. Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
 
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Brightfame52

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The Gospel and Christ are the living word and are Spirit.


They are spoken so man can see, can hear, can understand, can believe and leave all faithlessness behind, as all the Apostles did.


After Christ was risen, the Spirit was given to the Apostles and believers, in Christs rising from the dead.


Nobody can speak about it, understand it or prevent it, as godliness is a mystery, and the same as the mystery of iniquity stands for unrighteous reasoning, so the mystery of godliness is righteous judgment.

This means, God has given commandment for all men to repent, all men can repent, but all men need to seek Gods righteously, and stop hearing deceit and vain words and attempts of unrighteous men ( God is righteous who by deed layed His life down for us to live again with Him)
See all men by nature are spiritually dead to the True God.
 
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bling

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Sure but you just quoted hidden from the wise and prudent, so it cant be hidden from them and revealed to them at the same time.
People who rely on learning, knowledge and worldly wisdom to find the truth, shun trusting (faith). If they put aside self (quit, give up, wimp out, surrender) and turn to the Creator they might hate, them God can help them.
 
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bling

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Thats a negative. Man naturally is in opposition to God and cannot and will not be subject to Him. He hates the True God. Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
I fully agree and have been saying the same thing: “Man naturally is in opposition to God and cannot and will not be subject to Him. He hates the True God.” But do we both agree that is the way sinful man starts out, yet after God showers man with unbelievable wonderful gifts man changes?
 
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Brightfame52

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Man by nature, spiritually dead, are lost and without hope Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Now i understand Paul here in the context is referring to the Gentiles, however and nevertheless this describes all men by nature in spiritual death, even jews.

Notice Paul writes these people were had no hope of Salvation, and they were without God. Why is that ? Paul is speaking spiritually, for even gentiles as creatures have God as a Creator, but spiritually they are without God and without hope. This describes the lost state of man by nature. To say man can naturally seek the True God contradicts this fact !35
 
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I fully agree and have been saying the same thing: “Man naturally is in opposition to God and cannot and will not be subject to Him. He hates the True God.” But do we both agree that is the way sinful man starts out, yet after God showers man with unbelievable wonderful gifts man changes?
Thats why Jesus said a man must be born again friend.
 
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