Which Law Paul?

HARK! said:

Which law? Paul is a slave to YHWH's law.

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HARK! said:

When God's commands are written on your heart; is that literal, or figurative?

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I give up, which is it?

If it can't be done the way it is stated, for the purpose it is stated, it probably would be figurative for
what is stated and the purpose it is stated.

The commands of God written on your heart would be the commands he has expressly given for the New Covenant, since he promised he would do this in the New Covenant, not in the Old one.

The doers of the law will be justified. Which law, the Talmud, or YHWH's Law?

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By all law given by God during the Mosaic Covenant.

To understand the context of Romans 2 is to know the apostle is referring to the Mosaic law, which likewise in context of Romans 2 means that "no one is justified by observing the law, rather through the law they became conscious of sin" (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7), and which, along with "leading them to Christ," was the purpose of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:24).

The Decalogue and Levitical laws were the condition of the Mosaic Covenant, which had been temporarily added (Galatians 3:19; Romans 5:20) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Genesis 15:6, Genesis 15:18).
Those laws were given for the purpose of revealing sin (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7) and of leading to Christ (Galatians 3:24), they were not given to make righteous, because from the beginning with Abraham, righteousness had always been by faith (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3), never by law-keeping, for "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

The law has done what it was intended to do. . .the old covenant is now obsolete. . .and we are back to a covenant of grace alone, (Ephesians 2:8-9) just as it was with Abraham.

It is for freedom (from the yoke of slavery to the law, Galatians 2:4, Galatians 5:1b) that Christ has set us free (Galatians 5:1a) and taken us back to a covenant of grace alone.

Keeping in mind that loving your neighbor as yourself is not new to the NT, but it was not part of the Mosaic law on which the temporary Mosaic Covenant was conditioned and, therefore, it remains in the New Covenant--as the law of Jesus Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), and which now fulfills that temporary Mosaic law "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

BobRyan said:

Your claim about "nothing to do with the heart" is in direct contradiction to the words of Christ that you quote in Matt 22 where "The heart" issue is the foundation of all of it. All of scripture depends on those two commandments Christ quoted from the Law of Moses - according to Him in Matt 22.

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I fail to see the connection between my post and your comment. Please elaborate.

Acts29 said:

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Statutes and Ordinances are works of the law that have nothing to do with the heart.

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Your claim about "nothing to do with the heart" is in direct contradiction to the words of Christ that you quote in Matt 22 where "The heart" issue is the foundation of all of it. All of scripture depends on those two commandments Christ quoted from the Law of Moses - according to Him in Matt 22.

Acts29 said:

I fail to see the connection between my post and your comment. Please elaborate.

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Christ claims in Matt 22 that ALL of scripture "Law AND prophets" is about the heart issue of
1. Love God with all your HEART Deut 6:5
2. Love your neighbor AS yourself Lev 19:18

God's moral law defines what sin is - Rom 3:19-20, 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT.

It includes the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

All of the moral law of God is the heart issue of either loving God with all your heart - or loving your neighbor as yourself.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP ... "

The NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-12 writes God's Word on the heart - His imperatives for mankind - known to Jeremiah and his readers (as exegesis would have it)

And that is why Rom 3:31 is so "instructive"

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid!
in fact we establish the LAW" Rom 3:31

Clare73 said:

Yes, we establish it on its right basis, which is not for the righteousness of justification, which is imputed to us by faith,

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Our focus in "not taking God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 is not to "destroy the gospel , reject Christ, find a way to heaven other than the cross". I don't think this point is even a tiny bit confusing for Christians.

As the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 point out - God's commands written on the heart under the Gospel - are not at war with grace.

LoveGodsWord said:

According to the scriptures no one is "under the law" unless they stand guilty before God of breaking the law *Romans 3:19. The new covenant promise is God's law written in the heart to love in all those who have been born again into Gods' new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Those who are born again to love according to the scriptures however do not practice known unrepentant sin which is defined in the scriptures as knowingly breaking Gods' law and not believing and following what Gods Word says (see 1 John 3:4-9; Romans 14:23)

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No one is under the law, period.

The Decalogue and Levitical laws were the condition of the Mosaic Covenant, which had been temporarily added (Galatians 3:19; Romans 5:20) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Genesis 15:6, Genesis 15:18).
Those laws were given for the purpose of revealing sin (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7) and of leading to Christ (Galatians 3:24), they were not given to make righteous, because from the beginning with Abraham, righteousness had always been by faith (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3), never by law-keeping, for "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

The law has done what it was intended to do. . .the old covenant is now obsolete. . .and we are back to a covenant of grace alone, (Ephesians 2:8-9) just as it was with Abraham.

It is for freedom (from the yoke of slavery to the law, Galatians 2:4, Galatians 5:1b) that Christ has set us free (Galatians 5:1a) and taken us back to a covenant of grace alone.

Keeping in mind that loving your neighbor as yourself is not new to the NT, but it was not part of the Mosaic law on which the temporary Mosaic Covenant was conditioned and, therefore, it remains in the New Covenant--as the law of Jesus Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), and which now fulfills that temporary Mosaic law "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

BobRyan said:

And that is why Rom 3:31 is so "instructive"

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid!
in fact we establish the LAW" Rom 3:31

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Yes, we establish it on its right basis, which is not for the righteousness of justification, which is imputed to us by faith, as it was imputed to Abraham by faith (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3), but it is for the righteousness of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit (Romans 6-7), which leads to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19).

Our focus in "not taking God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 is not to "destroy the gospel , reject Christ, find a way to heaven other than the cross". I don't think this point is even a tiny bit confusing for Christians.

As the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 point out -
God's commands written on the heart under the Gospel - are not at war with grace.

Click to expand...

God's commands written on the heart under the gospel are the law of Christ (Matthew 22:37-39) which fulfills the Old Covenant laws (Matthew 22:40) "and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

The Decalogue and Levitical laws were the condition of the Mosaic Covenant, which had been temporarily added (Galatians 3:19; Romans 5:20) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Genesis 15:6, Genesis 15:18).
Those laws were given for the purpose of revealing sin (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7) and of leading to Christ (Galatians 3:24), they were not given to make righteous, because from the beginning with Abraham, righteousness had always been by faith (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3), never by law-keeping, for "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

The law has done what it was intended to do. . .the old covenant is now obsolete. . .and we are back to a covenant of grace alone, (Ephesians 2:8-9) just as it was with Abraham.

It is for freedom (from the yoke of slavery to the law, Galatians 2:4, Galatians 5:1b) that Christ has set us free (Galatians 5:1a) and taken us back to a covenant of grace alone.

Keeping in mind that loving your neighbor as yourself is not new to the NT, but it was not part of the Mosaic law on which the temporary Mosaic Covenant was conditioned and, therefore, it remains in the New Covenant--as the law of Jesus Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), and which now fulfills that temporary Mosaic law "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

Clare73 said:

God's commands written on the heart under the gospel are the law of Christ (Matthew 22:37-39) which fulfills the Old Covenant laws (Matthew 22:40) "and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

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Christ was quoting from the Old Testament, and these are not new laws. Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18.

God wrote His laws in our hearts which means all the laws, including the Ten commandments. Hebrews 8:10, Ezekiel 31:31-33. Hebrews shows us exactly which laws changed, Jesus being our High Priest and Mediator, Jesus being our perfect sacrifice so no more food and animal offerings Hebrews 10, Col 2:14-17. The law of God is not in conflict with Christ who came to magnify the law of God Isaiah 42:21. Fulfil the law means:

1. to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
   1. of matters of duty: to perform, execute
   2. of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
   3. to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment @Freth who posted this earlier

Fulfill does not mean the opposite of what Christ said, I did not come to destroy the law, and we know this because Christ continues saying:

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Love is the fulfillment of the law, meaning when we love God, we only worship Him and no other gods, nor to we place anything above Him, which could be anything, we only bow to Him, we use His name only with sacredness and not vain it and we keep the holy day of the Lord, that He asked us to also keep holy too. Breaking the law of God is not showing love to God according to God. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

The same applies to our neighbor. We show love to them when we don't steal their things, or covet what they have, love is definitely not when we murder, and Jesus wants to not only not physically do these things, He wants to magnify His love by changing our thoughts as shown Matthew 5:21-30.

Jesus is not coming back for the lawless and right now everyone has time to repent and turn from sin and walk in the Spirit which is given to help us obey. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

God bless

SabbathBlessings said:

Christ was quoting from the Old Testament, and these are not new laws. Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18.

God wrote His laws in our hearts which means all the laws, including the Ten commandments. Hebrews 8:10, Ezekiel 31:31-33. Hebrews shows us exactly which laws changed, Jesus being our High Priest and Mediator, Jesus being our perfect sacrifice so no more food and animal offerings Hebrews 10, Col 2:14-17.

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The law was given to reveal sin (Romans 3:20, 7:7) and to lead to Christ (Galatians 3:24),
and that is particularly the Decalogue.

The Decalogue and Levitical laws were the condition of the Mosaic Covenant, which had been temporarily added (Galatians 3:19; Romans 5:20) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Genesis 15:6, Genesis 15:18).
Those laws were given for the purpose of revealing sin (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7) and of leading to Christ (Galatians 3:24), they were not given to make righteous, because from the beginning with Abraham, righteousness had always been by faith (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3), never by law-keeping, for "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

The law has done what it was intended to do. . .the old covenant is now obsolete. . .and we are back to a covenant of grace alone, (Ephesians 2:8-9) just as it was with Abraham.

It is for freedom (from the yoke of slavery to the law, Galatians 2:4, Galatians 5:1b) that Christ has set us free (Galatians 5:1a) and taken us back to a covenant of grace alone.

Keeping in mind that loving your neighbor as yourself is not new to the NT, but it was not part of the Mosaic law on which the temporary Mosaic Covenant was conditioned and, therefore, it remains in the New Covenant--as the law of Jesus Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), and which now fulfills that temporary Mosaic law "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

The law of God is not in conflict with Christ who came to magnify the law of God Isaiah 42:21. Fulfil the law means:

1. to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
   1. of matters of duty: to perform, execute
   2. of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
   3. to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment @Freth who posted this earlier

Fulfill does not mean the opposite of what Christ said, I did not come to destroy the law, and we know this because Christ continues saying:

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Love is the fulfillment of the law, meaning when we love God, we only worship Him and no other gods, nor to we place anything above Him, which could be anything, we only bow to Him, we use His name only with sacredness and not vain it and we keep the holy day of the Lord, that He asked us to also keep holy too. Breaking the law of God is not showing love to God according to God. John 14:15, John 15:10, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6

The same applies to our neighbor. We show love to them when we don't steal their things, or covet what they have, love is definitely not when we murder, and Jesus wants to not only not physically do these things, He wants to magnify His love by changing our thoughts as shown Matthew 5:21-30.

Jesus is not coming back for the lawless and right now everyone has time to repent and turn from sin and walk in the Spirit which is given to help us obey. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

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Clare73 said:

Yes, we establish it on its right basis, which is not for the righteousness of justification, which is imputed to us by faith, as it was imputed to Abraham by faith (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3), but it is for the righteousness of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit (Romans 6-7), which leads to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19).

God's commands written on the heart under the gospel are the law of Christ (Matthew 22:37-39) which fulfills the Old Covenant laws (Matthew 22:40) "and whatever other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

The Decalogue and Levitical laws were the condition of the Mosaic Covenant, which had been temporarily added (Galatians 3:19; Romans 5:20) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Genesis 15:6, Genesis 15:18).
Those laws were given for the purpose of revealing sin (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7) and of leading to Christ (Galatians 3:24), they were not given to make righteous, because from the beginning Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), and which now fulfills that temporary Mosaic law "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).with Abraham, righteousness had always been by faith (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3), never by law-keeping, for "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

Keeping in mind that loving your neighbor as yourself is not new to the NT, but it was not part of the Mosaic law on which the temporary Mosaic Covenant was conditioned and, therefore, it remains in the New Covenant--as the law of Jesus Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), and which now fulfills that temporary Mosaic law "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

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I notice you quote a lot from Paul in regard to being lawless, but Peter gives us this warning about Paul's writings you might want to consider:

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Th error of wicked means lawless: The error of the wicked.--Better, the error of the lawless (2Peter 2:7), but not "the seduction" or "deceit of the lawless," as some would render it. It is the same word as occurs at the end of 2Peter 2:18, and it implies wandering from the path, but not leading others astray. The context, not the word itself, shows that there was seduction. "The lawless" are the false teachers and scoffers. . . .

2 Peter 3:17 Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing. (biblehub.com)

No one ever quotes this verse from Paul which sums up what really matters, according to Paul.
1 Cor 7:19 but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Notice those who DO the commandments of God are BLESSED, not cursed and this is right before the Second Coming of our Savior!

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

SabbathBlessings said:

I notice you quote a lot from Paul in regard to being lawless, but Peter gives us this warning about Paul's writings you might want to consider:

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Paul is lawless?

Does Peter's warning apply to you?

I notice you do not demonstrate any Biblical error in my post.

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Th error of wicked means lawless: The error of the wicked.--Better, the error of the lawless (2Peter 2:7), but not "the seduction" or "deceit of the lawless," as some would render it. It is the same word as occurs at the end of 2Peter 2:18, and it implies wandering from the path, but not leading others astray. The context, not the word itself, shows that there was seduction. "The lawless" are the false teachers and scoffers. . . .

2 Peter 3:17 Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing. (biblehub.com)

No one ever quotes this verse from Paul which sums up what really matters, according to Paul.
1 Cor 7:19 but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Notice those who DO the commandments of God are BLESSED, not cursed and this is right before the Second Coming of our Savior!

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

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BobRyan said:

Your claim about "nothing to do with the heart" is in direct contradiction to the words of Christ that you quote in Matt 22 where "The heart" issue is the foundation of all of it. All of scripture depends on those two commandments Christ quoted from the Law of Moses - according to Him in Matt 22.



Christ claims in Matt 22 that ALL of scripture "Law AND prophets" is about the heart issue of
1. Love God with all your HEART Deut 6:5
2. Love your neighbor AS yourself Lev 19:18

God's moral law defines what sin is - Rom 3:19-20, 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT.

It includes the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

All of the moral law of God is the heart issue of either loving God with all your heart - or loving your neighbor as yourself.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP ... "

The NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:6-12 writes God's Word on the heart - His imperatives for mankind - known to Jeremiah and his readers (as exegesis would have it)

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I think you missed the point of my post in distinguishing between the matters of the heart and ordinances. In the law, for example, there are rules for dealing with leprosy. This is not a heart issue, nor does it have anything to do with loving God or one's neighbor. Though a religious spirit cannot see the distinctions.

Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Clare73 said:

The law was given to reveal sin (Romans 3:20, 7:7) and to lead to Christ, and that includes the Decalogue.


The Decalogue and Levitical laws were the condition of the Mosaic Covenant, which had been temporarily added (Galatians 3:19; Romans 5:20) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace (Genesis 15:6, Genesis 15:18).
Those laws were given for the purpose of revealing sin (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7) and of leading to Christ (Galatians 3:24), they were not given to make righteous, because from the beginning with Abraham, righteousness had always been by faith (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3), never by law-keeping, for "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

Keeping in mind that loving your neighbor as yourself is not new to the NT, but it was not part of the Mosaic law on which the temporary Mosaic Covenant was conditioned and, therefore, it remains in the New Covenant--as the law of Jesus Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), and which now fulfills that temporary Mosaic law "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10).

.

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Do you understand there is more than one set of laws in scripture that serves different purposes? You seem to be mixing up the laws and twisting scripture to you own demise. All bible has to reconcile, and God's commandments are not cursed.

According to Paul:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

According to John:
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

According to James:

James 1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

An than we have Jesus telling us though our obedience we show our love. John 14:15, John 15:10

John again tells us:
1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. Jesus kept the commandments as our perfect example.

SabbathBlessings said:

Do you understand there is more than one set of laws in scripture that serves different purposes?

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My response (post #109) clearly stated with which laws I am dealing.

You seem to be mixing up the laws and twisting scripture to you own demise. All bible has to reconcile, and God's commandments are not cursed.

According to Paul:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

According to John:
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

According to James:

James 1:25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

An than we have Jesus telling us though our obedience we show our love. John 14:15, John 15:10

John again tells us:
1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. Jesus kept the commandments as our perfect example.

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Clare73 said:

Paul is lawless?

Does Peter's warning apply to you?

I notice you do not demonstrate any Biblical error in my post.

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

Click to expand...

I never said Paul was lawless, but this teaching that Paul is okay with being lawless or that the law of God is cursed, is not what Paul is teaching. God cannot have anything cursed in heaven and the law of God that was written by the finger of God, kept in the ark of the covenant of the Most Holy part of Temple of God, written in our hearts and minds is also in heaven. Revelation 11:19. The law of God is not cursed; it reflects the very nature of our Savior and is a tutor to bring us to Christ. Galatians 3:24. We do not keep the law to be saved, we keep it because it is a fruit of our faith.

All of the bible applies to all of us.

SabbathBlessings said:

I never said Paul was lawless, but this
teaching that Paul is okay with being lawless or that
the law of God is cursed, is not what Paul is teaching.

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Strawman. . .

You do need to heed Peter's warning.

God cannot have anything cursed in heaven and the law of God that was written by the finger of God, kept in the ark of the covenant of the Most Holy part of Temple of God, written in our hearts and minds is also in heaven. Revelation 11:19. The law of God is not cursed; it reflects the very nature of our Savior and is a tutor to bring us to Christ. Galatians 3:24. We do not keep the law to be saved, we keep it because it is a fruit of our faith.

All of the bible applies to all of us.

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Clare73 said:

My response (post #109) clearly stated with which laws I am dealing.

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The Decalogue is the Ten Commandments, and they are not temporary as you teach.

Psalm 89:34 My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

Matthew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

And shown in heaven Revelation 11:19.

Acts29 said:

I think you missed the point of my post in distinguishing between the matters of the heart and ordinances. In the law, for example, there are rules for dealing with leprosy.

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Jesus said "if you love me Keep My Commands" - the health Laws God gave promote health as it turns out. God dealt with leprosy by isolating the person that had it ... from the rest of the population.

By contrast we have "moral laws of God" in places like the Ten Commandments. So for example -- coveting does not cause you to "catch leprosy" or to lose an arm... but it is still wrong according to God.

SabbathBlessings said:

The Decalogue is the Ten Commandments, and they are not temporary as you teach.

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Assertion without Biblical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

Demonstrate my Biblical error.

Psalm 89:34 My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

And shown in heaven Revelation 11:19.

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SabbathBlessings said:

The Decalogue is the Ten Commandments, and they are not temporary .

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Good point about a Bible detail that is so easy to see for almost all Bible scholars on planet Earth.

Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 point out - God's commands written on the heart under the Gospel - are not at war with grace.

Clare73 said:

Now that faith in Christ has come (the Mosaic law fulfilling its purpose and now being fulfilled in the NT law of Christ, Matthew 22:37-40), we are no longer under the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13) nor under the supervision of the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:25).

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If we are taught to come to Christ through the law, reverting from the law is reverting from Christ. We don't need a tutor if we obey the law of God. (Doers of the Word)

The covenant (agreement) is what changed, not the law of God.

SabbathBlessings said:

If we are taught to come to Christ through the law, reverting from the law is reverting from Christ. We don't need a tutor if we obey the law of God. (Doers of the Word)

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The problem with that is the tutor/guardian is the Mosaic law (Galatians 3:24). . .so if we don't need a tutor/guardian, then we don't need the Mosaic law. . .which is precisely what the NT teaches in Galatians 3:25.

From the beginning with Abraham in the covenant of grace (Genesis 15:18), righteousness was by grace through faith (Genesis 15:6)--no law keeping.

God temporarily added law-keeping to that covenant of grace, not to make righteous--which was by faith only--but to reveal sin (Romans 3:20, 7:7) and to lead to Christ (Galatians 3:24).

Now that faith in Christ has come (the law is no longer needed to reveal sin or to lead to Christ for the Holy Spirit does that now), we are no longer under the supervision--tutorship--guardianship of the law (Galatians 3:25).

The law has done what it was intended to do. . .the old covenant is now obsolete. . .and we are back to a covenant of grace alone, (Ephesians 2:8-9) just as it was with Abraham.

It is for freedom (from the yoke of slavery to the law, Galatians 2:4, Galatians 5:1b) that Christ has set us free (Galatians 5:1a) and taken us back to a covenant of grace alone.

That is the gospel! (Galatians 1:6-8)

The covenant (agreement) is what changed, not the law of God.

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Doesn't matter whether it changed or not, we are no longer under its supervision.

We have been freed from a yoke of slavery (Galatians 5:1) to the law (Galatians 2:4).
We are not under its curse, for it is not given for the righteousness of justification, which is by faith only, as it was for Abraham (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3).

The law is for the righteousness of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit (Romans 6-7), which leads to righteousness (Romans 6:16) leading to holiness (Romans 6:19), and does not curse us, ever.

So yes, the law has "changed," it cannot curse us.