There is no such thing as a "rapture" for believers!!

FreeGrace2 · Jan 4, 2022

Ligurian said:
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out. And I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God: new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Revelation 11:11-12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and His throne. (Isaiah 66:7-8) (Revelation 2:27)
Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: sealed an hundred forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Revelation 14:1-4 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty-four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred forty-four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men: the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb
Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (1 Peter 1:1)
James 1:18 Of His own will begat He us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures. (James 1:1)

Jeremias 18:19 O Lord, thou art My strength, and mine help, and My refuge in days of evil: to thee the Gentiles shall come from the end of the earth, and shall say, How vain were the idols which our fathers procured to themselves, and there is no help in them.LXX
Esaias 60:14 And the sons of them that afflicted thee, and of them that provoked thee, shall come to thee in fear; and thou shalt be called Sion, the city of the Holy One of Israel.LXX

You've quoted a lot of verses. What is your point? It's always helpful to include your explanation of what these verses mean to you. We may agree or maybe not.

But I can't reply until I know what you think they mean.

Guojing · Jan 4, 2022

Ligurian said:
And the Lord said to Abram, Go forth out of thy land and out of thy kindred, and out of the house of thy father, and come into the land which I will shew thee. And I will make thee a great nation, and I will bless thee and magnify thy name, and thou shalt be blessed. And I will bless those that bless thee, and curse those that curse thee, and in thee shall all the tribes of the earth be blessed.

"I will bless those that bless thee" ... some people in every tribe will bless Abram.

If you are Abram, you will regard that promise as good news to you. Would you agree?

Guojing · Jan 4, 2022

Ed Parenteau said:
I am not the example to follow, but rather Jesus Christ and His disciples are. My question really was for you to explain why you would exclude anything in scripture from the preaching of the gospel? I don't see Paul excluding anything from it and was wondering why you did.

I was asking you a simple yes or no question, that's all.

Guojing · Jan 4, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Yes, but there's all kinds of good news, as I just gave you 1 example.

But the Bible never refers to winning the lottery.

No, you are being obtuse. The biblical gospel is the GOOD NEWS that Jesus Christ died for your sins and saves those who believe (trust) in Him for it.

Abraham knew that. In fact, Paul proved from the Scrptures (OT) that Jesus is the Christ.

So the gospel is the SAME regardless of whether OT or NT.

You haven't shown otherwise.

Nor can you.

Yes, but there's all kinds of good news

Finally you are willing to admit that there is more than 1 good news found in the Bible.

Now, that is not that difficult isn't it?

Guojing · Jan 4, 2022

Ligurian said:
But I wasn't speaking for the gentiles when I used the word "our"... didn't you know?

You are considered a gentile in the eyes of God.

Ligurian · Jan 4, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.KJV (ginomai = to cause to be ("gen"-erate)...)
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. ... 6 And He said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.KJV

FreeGrace2 said:
From v.17 many people were accusing Jesus of trying to set the Law aside, so He clarifies what He came for. He in fact DID "fulfill the Law" by keeping it perfectly, unlike any other human being.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
pleroo = to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

FreeGrace2 said:
v.18 is a reference to what will occur before the "new heaven and earth" appear. That is a direct reference to the Millennial Kingdom.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
(onoma = name, (authority, character)) (Matthew 7:25-26, Matthew 21:37)

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee; and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall command Him. And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.

John 12:48-50 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

Ligurian · Jan 4, 2022

Guojing said:
You are considered a gentile in the eyes of God.

I don't remember meeting you... so, how do you know anything about me?

Ligurian · Jan 4, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
You've quoted a lot of verses. What is your point? It's always helpful to include your explanation of what these verses mean to you. We may agree or maybe not.

But I can't reply until I know what you think they mean.

Aren't you the same person who said you don't interpret anything? Why do you ask it of me?

Guojing · Jan 4, 2022

Ligurian said:
I don't remember meeting you... so, how do you know anything about me?

Ever since the nation of Israel has fallen in the eyes of God, everyone is considered a gentile (Romans 11:11).

If you are a physical Jew, Stephen has pronounced judgement, thru the Holy Spirit, that you are also uncircumcised in God's eyes. (Acts 7:51)

Ligurian · Jan 4, 2022

Guojing said:
If you are Abram, you will regard that promise as good news to you. Would you agree?

Yes. And the people who are blessing Abram will also think that's good news.

Guojing · Jan 4, 2022

Ligurian said:
Yes. And the people who are blessing Abram will also think that's good news.

Yes, I can think of 2 examples during Jesus first coming where this was manifested

The Roman Centurion blessed Abraham's seed, by building Israel a synagogue. (Luke 7:4-5). That was why Jesus automatically agreed to meet with him and to grant him that miracle.

The Canaanite woman blessed Abraham's seed, Israel, by acknowledging her submission to Israel, that she was indeed a gentile puppy who have the right to be blessed from the bread crumbs falling from the children of Israel's table (Mark 7:28-29)

But praise the Lord now that we don't need to bless the nation of Israel, in order to be blessed. That is good news for us.

Ligurian · Jan 4, 2022

Guojing said:
Ever since the nation of Israel has fallen in the eyes of God, everyone is considered a gentile (Romans 11:11).

If you are a physical Jew, Stephen has pronounced judgement, thru the Holy Spirit, that you are also uncircumcised in God's eyes. (Acts 7:51)

1 Peter 1:1 and James 1:1 are still calling their brothers the Diaspora. For every verse you have, I have at least one from the Kingdom Gospel that says the contrary. Remember, the Gospel of the Kingdom came first. I'm sticking with the Kingdom verses... His sheep know the voice of their one shepherd. (John 10:1-5)

Guojing · Jan 4, 2022

Ligurian said:
1 Peter 1:1 and James 1:1 are still calling their brothers the Diaspora. For every verse you have, I have at least one from the Kingdom Gospel that says the contrary. And since the Gospel of the Kingdom came first... I'm sticking with the Kingdom verses... His sheep know the voice of their shepherd. (John 10:1-5)

James was written sometime in Acts 8, before Paul was saved, so naturally he will not have understood the mystery gospel that was revealed to Paul.

As for Peter, he agreed with Paul at Galatians 2/Acts 15, that he will restrict himself to the gospel of the circumcision (Galatians 2:7-9), so naturally, he won't be writing to gentiles, but only to Israel.

You are reading the Bible, yes, but you are not rightly dividing the word of Truth.

There is a reason why their books are placed by the Holy Spirit after Paul's letters. After the Body of Christ is raptured into heaven, Israel will regain her status as God's favored nation again, so the gospel of the kingdom will indeed be making a comeback.

Ligurian · Jan 4, 2022

Guojing said:
James was written sometime in Acts 8, before Paul was saved, so naturally he will not have understood the mystery gospel that was revealed to Paul.

As for Peter, he agreed with Paul at Galatians 2/Acts 15, that he will restrict himself to the gospel of the circumcision (Galatians 2:7-9), so naturally, he won't be writing to gentiles, but only to Israel.

You are reading the Bible, yes, but you are not rightly dividing the word of Truth.

There is a reason why their books are placed by the Holy Spirit after Paul's letters. After the Body of Christ is raptured into heaven, Israel will regain her status as God's favored nation again, so the gospel of the kingdom will indeed be making a comeback.

Thank you for pointing out Galatians 2:7-9... I would let it alone, but I just can't bring myself to sign-on to what I don't believe by being silent.
We CAN know what Peter was teaching, because we can prove what Jesus taught His Galilean Apostles... and since Peter was said by John to be martyred, Peter was faithful to that which Jesus taught His Galilean Apostles.
So... we CAN know that Paul's Cephas/Peter isn't Jesus' Peter, at all.
Peter/Simon-Peter/Simon/Simeon/Cephas: Why did the Lord come to the earth?

What we DO know is that the Gospel Peter taught included John 14:15-17.
So Peter's gospel's the one against which Paul proclaims anathema... Galatians 3:3-5.
And this must be about the two gospels, as well, right?
1 Corinthians 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

James seems to be very aware of what Paul wrote, because he makes several pointed attacks against it. Jude is downright livid about Paul's gospel... which may be why we see Paul complaining that people say they did bad to let grace multiply. As for 2 Peter... well, look at this:

2 Peter - 61-2.
Acts - 57-62+
1 Peter - spring 65.
What is the "Robinson Redating of the New Testament"?

Anyone know why 2 Peter is before 1 Peter, for Robinson?
And why, in the Greek, one is called Simeon Peter... a spelling found only in Luke and Acts?

Guojing · Jan 4, 2022

Ligurian said:
Thank you for pointing out Galatians 2:7-9... I would let it alone, but I just can't bring myself to sign-on to what I don't believe by being silent.
We CAN know what Peter was teaching, because we can prove what Jesus taught His Galilean Apostles... and since Peter was said by John to be martyred, Peter was faithful to that which Jesus taught His Galilean Apostles.
So... we CAN know that Paul's Cephas/Peter isn't Jesus' Peter, at all.
Peter/Simon-Peter/Simon/Simeon/Cephas: Why did the Lord come to the earth?

What we DO know is that the Gospel Peter taught included John 14:15-17.
So Peter's gospel's the one against which Paul proclaims anathema... Galatians 3:3-5.
And this must be about the two gospels, as well, right?
1 Corinthians 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

James seems to be very aware of what Paul wrote, because he makes several pointed attacks against it. Jude is downright livid about Paul's gospel... which may be why we see Paul complaining that people say they did bad to let grace multiply. As for 2 Peter... well, look at this:

You don't agree that the book of James was written sometime around Acts 8, when Jews from Jerusalem were scattered abroad from Saul's persecution?

You don't connect James 1:1 with Acts 8:1?

I agree with you that Peter taught the exact same gospel of the kingdom that Jesus taught Israel in his first coming. That was not my point.

In that gospel of the kingdom, you need works to show your faith.

FreeGrace2 · Jan 5, 2022

Guojing said:
Finally you are willing to admit that there is more than 1 good news found in the Bible.

Now, that is not that difficult isn't it?

Oh, for heaven's sake. I already proved that there are different kinds of good news.

But, there is only 1 way to be saved.

FreeGrace2 · Jan 5, 2022

Ligurian said:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.KJV (ginomai = to cause to be ("gen"-erate)...)
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. ... 6 And He said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.KJV

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
pleroo = to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
(onoma = name, (authority, character)) (Matthew 7:25-26, Matthew 21:37)

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee; and I will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them as I shall command Him. And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in My name, I will take vengeance on him.

John 12:48-50 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

I don't know what your point is by all these verses. You haven't left a comment on any of them.

Guojing · Jan 5, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Oh, for heaven's sake. I already proved that there are different kinds of good news.

But, there is only 1 way to be saved.

Just to confirm,

If you agree that gospel means good news.
If you state that you "already proved that there are different kinds of good news."

You must also conclude that you also have "already proved that there are different kinds of gospels"?

FreeGrace2 · Jan 5, 2022

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Oh, for heaven's sake. I already proved that there are different kinds of good news.

But, there is only 1 way to be saved.

Guojing said:
Just to confirm,

If you agree that gospel means good news.

If you state that you "already proved that there are different kinds of good news."

You must also conclude that you also have "already proved that there are different kinds of gospels"?

I'm tired of your continued and stubborn word games with "gospel". When I speak of the Gospel, I mean ONLY ONE way to be saved.

There is only 1 way to be saved.

If you think you can prove there are more than 1 way to be saved, you need to quote the verses on those different ways.

But I can save you a whole lot of time. There aren't. And that should be good news to you.

Ed Parenteau · Jan 5, 2022

Guojing said:
I was asking you a simple yes or no question, that's all.

Even though I asked you first, my answer is no, but Jesus and the apostles used Abraham to win Jews. Now it is your turn to answer my question. Why exclude anything from the bible when preaching the gospel? The whole bible is the good news of Jesus Christ. The gospel is like a diamond that has many facets including the good news of His kingdom, His grace, His peace etc..

There is no such thing as a "rapture" for believers!!

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