The ghettoization of traditional Catholics

In one of the video’s most jarring segments, prior to Pfleger’s arrival, a woman reads a reflection on racism, gun violence, and other social ills. The woman shouts at some points, while figures near the altar, including some dressed in hooded cloaks that resemble Ku Klux Klan robes, dramatize her words. (You can watch the segment at the 38:00 mark in the video below.)

Did Father Michael Pfleger's Christmas Eve Mass in Chicago go too far?

A lot more detail in the latest post. I think I would of left.

Michie said:

More on the Chicago Mass.

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‘He Must Decrease, I Must Increase’ — As Cupich Suppresses Traditional Worship, Video of Chicago Mass Divides Catholics

Did Father Michael Pfleger's Christmas Eve Mass in Chicago go too far?

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It does seem a tad, just a tad, imbalanced to go after the traditionalist and let this kind of stuff go on.

chevyontheriver said:

It does seem a tad, just a tad, imbalanced to go after the traditionalist and let this kind of stuff go on.

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More than a tad. He went after the St. Michael prayer as well.

Michie said:

A lot more detail in the latest post. I think I would of left.

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I almost walked out of a mass once. This event? I would have left with you. I'm not sure what it was.

chevyontheriver said:

I almost walked out of a mass once. This event? I would have left with you. I'm not sure what it was.

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Why did you walk out the first time?

Michie said:

More than a tad. He went after the St. Michael prayer as well.

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I missed that. In these dark times the prayer to St. Michael seems so appropriate that to not have it seems irresponsible.

Here is the long form:

O GLORIOUS Prince of the heavenly host, Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in the battle and fearful warfare that we are waging against the principalities and powers, against the rulers of this world of darkness, against the evil spirits. Come thou to the assistance of men, whom Almighty God created immortal, making them in His own image and likeness and redeeming them at a great price from the tyranny of Satan. Fight this day the battle of the Lord with thy legions of holy Angels, even as of old thou didst fight against Lucifer, the leader of the proud spirits and all his rebel angels, who were powerless to stand against thee, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And that great dragon was cast forth, the ancient serpent, who is called the devil and satan, who seduces the whole world; and he was cast forth upon Earth, and his angels were sent with him.

But behold! the ancient enemy of mankind and a murderer from the beginning has been fiercely aroused. Changing himself into an angel of light, he goes about with the whole multitude of the wicked spirits to invade the earth and blot out the Name of God and of His Christ, to plunder, to slay, and to consign to eternal damnation the souls that have been destined for a crown of everlasting life. This wicked serpent, like an unclean torrent, pours into men of depraved minds and corrupt hearts the poison of his malice, the spirit of lying, impiety and blasphemy, and the deadly breath of impurity and every form of vice and iniquity.

Be favorable to Thy Church, the Bride of the Lamb without spot, whose enemies have filled to overflowing with gall and inebriated with wormwood. They have laid profane hands upon Her most sacred treasures. Where the See of the most blessed Peter and the Chair of Truth has been constituted as a light to the nations, there they have placed a throne of their abomination and impiety; so that with the Pastor struck, they may prevail to disperse the flock.

Therefore, most invincible Leader, be with the people of God against this spiritual wickedness and bring about victory. Thou art venerated by Holy Church as Her guard and patron; Thou art glorified as our defender against the impious powers of earth and of hell. Unto thee the Lord hath handed over the souls of the redeemed to be placed in happiness above.

Entreat the God of peace, to obliterate satan beneath our feet, lest he prevail further to hold men captive, and to injure the Church. Offer our prayers in the sight of the Most High, so that the mercy of the Lord may swiftly overtake us, and apprehend the dragon, the ancient serpent, who is the devil and satan, and send him bound into the abyss, so that he may seduce the nations no more.

Henceforth having been confided to thy escort and protection, we sacred ministers by the authority of the Holy Mother Church [if recited by a cleric of the order of exorcist or above, say instead: by our authority], do undertake to repel the infestations of diabolical deceit in the Name of Jesus Christ, Our God and Lord.

V. Behold the Cross of the Lord; be scattered hostile powers.
R. The Lion of the tribe of Juda has conquered, the root of David.
V. Let Thy mercies be upon us, O Lord.
R. As we have hoped in Thee.
V. O Lord, hear my prayer.
R. And let my cry come unto Thee.

[If recited by at least a deacon add the following:]
V. The Lord be with you all.
R. And with thy spirit.

Let us pray.

O God, and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ, we invoke Thy Holy Name, and we humbly implore Thy clemency so that, through the intercession of Mary, the Immaculate ever-Virgin Mother of God, of blessed Michael the Archangel, of blessed Joseph, the Spouse of the same blessed Virgin, of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and of all the Saints, Thou may deign to offer us aid against satan, and all the other unclean spirits, who wander through the world to injure the human race and to destroy souls. We ask this through Christ Our Lord.

Amen.

Michie said:

Why did you walk out the first time?

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Almost. And it was a long time ago. Maybe about 1985. One of those hip new priests minted in about 1970. I don't remember the details. And of course I only contemplated walking out but didn't have the backbone to do it.

this years NO midnight mass was so disturbing with the female reader wearing a mini skirt and bare legs, sitting on the altar in a chair right across from Father, who had to tolerate sitting in his chair with her directly in his line of site as he prepared to read the holy gospel in full vestments to honor and glorify God, while across from him sat a woman whose mini skirt was now just barely covering her groin with bare legs and high heels, and a low cut blouse. The direct opposites right in front of the tabernacle, of pride and selfishness and look at me not at Christ, and a humble servant dressed for a King.

The point is that they have forgotten that they are in the House of the Lord, and all eyes should be focused upon Him not you. She dressed like being up there was an opportunity to showcase herself and her body, showing no humility nor any meekness.

Trad Catholics never dress like this ever, and being there is divine. I do appreciate all the fine ladies there and the gentlemen and all the lovely children.

It goes to the thread, that its very hard to get to the tlm in my area, so this beauty is being ghettoized, leaving an often lost NO service to attend, where often beach shorts and flip flops are welcome.

So I wonder if God is just glad you came, so even if that's what you came in, then please come in.

right?

joymercy said:

this years NO midnight mass was so disturbing with the female reader wearing a mini skirt and bare legs, sitting on the altar in a chair right across from Father, who had to tolerate sitting in his chair with her directly in his line of site as he prepared to read the holy gospel in full vestments to honor and glorify God, while across from him sat a woman whose mini skirt was now just barely covering her groin with bare legs and high heels, and a low cut blouse. The direct opposites right in front of the tabernacle, of pride and selfishness and look at me not at Christ, and a humble servant dressed for a King.

The point is that they have forgotten that they are in the House of the Lord, and all eyes should be focused upon Him not you. She dressed like being up there was an opportunity to showcase herself and her body, showing no humility nor any meekness.

Trad Catholics never dress like this ever, and being there is divine. I do appreciate all the fine ladies there and the gentlemen and all the lovely children.

It goes to the thread, that its very hard to get to the tlm in my area, so this beauty is being ghettoized, leaving an often lost NO service to attend, where often beach shorts and flip flops are welcome.

So I wonder if God is just glad you came, so even if that's what you came in, then please come in.

right?

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These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. The hierarchy has failed us, as evidenced by the priest tolerating the woman in the miniskirt. Where is the zeal for God’s house? If the priest were in personi christi, He would be like the actor in Jesus Christ Superstar (I hate that movie because it is so blasphemous, but that is another story, although it does have some really good dramatic effects). My Temple should be a House of prayer, but you have made it a den of lust, GET OUT! And I don’t buy the feminist line that men just have dirty minds. Yeah, I know that I have concupiscence and have impure thoughts, but do you want me to get over lust by watching more inappropriate content? GOD FORBID!!
The only way to get over lust is to run away like Joseph did in the Egyptian man’s house
Even then he was falsely accused and wound up in prison, but he kept his purity.
No immodest dress should not be tolerated by any Catholic woman. Christ said it inevitable that offenses come, but whoa to the one by whom they come. The Muslims put us to shame by covering up, but we cannot even cover up cleavage and wear skirts below the knee? Even some of our nuns don’t wear habits anymore. How does that honor God?
Satan must really be laughing at us. We as laymen should take the lead. We don’t need to make a scene at Mass, but we should raise our objections. We could say, you know that Christ said that if we even look at a woman with lust, we have committed adultery in our hearts. Why do we allow our women to induce men to adultery right before and during communion?
The only way for a man to be safe is to cover his eyes or leave. Hmmm, a Mass with half naked women and no men. Would that get the message across? I could see the priest being warned ahead of time, and the lector coming out and giving the announcement. Ladies, today Father is going to say Mass ad Orientum, because he wants to honor God, you can stay and watch the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, but canon law does not compel father to offer you communion, as you are obviously in sin. I would encourage you to go to confession and come back covered up next time

boughtwithaprice said:

And I don’t buy the feminist line that men just have dirty minds. Yeah, I know that I have concupiscence and have impure thoughts, but do you want me to get over lust by watching more inappropriate content? GOD FORBID!!
The only way to get over lust is to run away like Joseph did in the Egyptian man’s house
Even then he was falsely accused and wound up in prison, but he kept his purity.
No immodest dress should not be tolerated by any Catholic woman. Christ said it inevitable that offenses come, but whoa to the one by whom they come. The Muslims put us to shame by covering up, but we cannot even cover up cleavage and wear skirts below the knee?

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Just to clue you in, in a friendly sort of way, lots of women have dirty minds too. So even men need to dress with modesty, not like they are at the beach or going to the beach right after mass. Long pants and respectable shirts.

chevyontheriver said:

Just to clue you in, in a friendly sort of way, lots of women have dirty minds too. So even men need to dress with modesty, not like they are at the beach or going to the beach right after mass. Long pants and respectable shirts.

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We should all dress like we are going to meet the highest dignitary we can think of, because we are. That is our Lord Jesus Christ on the altar, and He sacrificed Himself for you. He does not need us at church, but we certainly need Him. Dress accordingly. A poor man does not need to buy a tuxedo, but put on your Sunday best.
I agree that it would be very bad if women came dressed modestly, but men came in beach clothes

Fenwick said:

The one thing that the Vatican and the TC minions may not have included in their calculus, is that if they're going to force trads either into excommunication or into Novus Ordo Masses, us trads are going to make a mess of things by making priests like Fr. Pfleger miserable with an endless barrage of complaints and protest so long as they celebrate the Mass with such indignity.

Like we said in another thread, hagan lio.

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Oh, the return of tradition minded Catholics to the parishes that they left could make it very miserable for pastoral sorts of pastors who pretend to be inclusive of everybody. Imagine all of the people requesting canon 1, imagine if they joined the choir but didn't want to sing Kumbaya, preferring a Sanctus? Imagine all of the restricted giving for things father mushyliturgy would have to contend with.

Hagan lio, as pope Francis has said many times!

Father just wants everyone to know that they are loved and he is just glad that you came, to be honest here....

But I do see the interior disposition on display.

One is a servant of God, the other suffers from a darkened intellect.

What then to do?

He also cannot say anything due to people who have filed complaints and priests forced out for "treatment"

There are wealthier families who are so very proud of their grand daughter who got to be "chosen" to do the reading on Christmas eve.

What a political nightmare, and absolute minefield.

Dressed intentionally like that, then received communion herself, meant she received unworthily, a mortal sin, yes?

Mortal sin requires prior knowledge and full intent. Society has so degraded that it is hard to judge the knowledge of her heart. Maybe she ditzily thought she just wanted to look pretty? I just know that I would not want to be before Our Lord and have to explain to Him why I dressed like that, or did not tell her to cover up

Thank you. Father has suffered so very greatly for his vocation and is often in physical agony.

Its become obvious how much he loves The Church.

I have no doubt he would give his very life for others.

I had hoped for the same love for others and for Christ to be on display during mass from the laity.

But it has become a social club, and to be honest, I just don't see the shamefully dressed women in line at confession-ever.

They are not living their faith-or maybe they don't know it at all.

So is it our interior life that needs work here?

ps-lets just face it...good priests are getting removed

its pretty terrifying for them to walk this fine line

Fenwick said:

Right, if we're forced to go back we can flood the phone lines, inboxes, and parish office waiting rooms with complaints, suggestions, and requests.

Father, please pray the Roman Canon during the consecration.

Father, please think about saying Mass ad orientem at least one Mass per Sunday.

Father, please hold a Marty Haugan album burning party in the parish parking lot.

Father, if this parish wants my tithe maybe drop the EMHCs, girl altar servers, and guitar music.

Ok the last one is extortion, but you get my drift.

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Please father can we have bells?
Please father can we have adoration?
Please father can we have confession more often?
Please father can we have silence before mass?
Please father can we have a study group on Sarcosanctum Concilium to see what it really says?
Father, why are there no seminarians from this parish?
Father, why are there no altar boys in this parish?
Father, is the old altar rail in storage somewhere? Can we put it back?