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Conversion and OCD

Bob8102

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JD Greear wrote a book called Stop Asking Jesus Into Your Heart: How to know for sure you are saved. He says that by the time he was eighteen, he had asked Jesus into his heart five thousand times. He acknowledges that he has OCD tendencies. I propose that those who keep giving their life to Christ over and over are doing what God wants them to do. Here’s why. In today’s reading in Oswald Chambers devotional book, My Utmost for His Highest, for December 28, the title is “Continuous Conversion.” Here it is:

“’Except ye be converted and become as little children…’ Matthew 18:3”

“These words of our Lord are true of our initial conversion, but we have to be continuously converted all the days of our lives, continually turn to God as children. If we trust our wits instead of to God, we produce consequences for which God will hold us responsible. Immediately our bodies are brought into new conditions by the providence of God, we have to see that our natural life obeys the dictates of the Spirit of God. Because we have done it once is no proof we shall do it again. The relation of the natural to the spiritual is one of continuous conversion, and it is the one thing we object to. In every setting in which we are put, the Spirit of God remains unchanged and our salvation unaltered, but we have to ‘put on the new man.’ God holds us responsible every time we refuse to convert ourselves, our reason for refusing is wilful obstinacy. Our natural life must not rule, God must rule in us.

“The hindrance of our spiritual life is that we will not be continually converted, there are wadges of obstinacy where our pride spits at the throne of God and says – I won’t. We deify independence and wilfulness and call them by the wrong name. What God looks on as obstinate weakness, we call strength. There are whole tracts of our lives which have not yet been brought into subjection, and it can only be done by this continuous conversion. Slowly but surely we can claim the whole territory for the Spirit of God.”

Grantley Morris has produced a website for Christians with OCD. He says that OCD continually afflicts the sufferer with false alarms. He suggests accepting this state of being as the apostle Paul accepted his thorn in the flesh. He said God can use OCD to make one spiritually stronger. Mitzi VanCleve wrote a book called Strivings Within – The OCD Christian, subtitled “Overcoming doubt in the storm of anxiety.” She says that she and a number of other Christians have or have had this problem with doubt of salvation. She says that John Bunyan. Author of Pilgrim’s Progress, had OCD and she quotes him. She says that he eventually made the decision that whether he was going to heaven or going to hell, he was for going on in his Christian life. She suggests Christian OCD sufferers make the same decision. I find that advice hard to take. I’d rather say, if I’m going to heaven, I’m for going on in my Christian life. But OCD is a neurological condition and it will not let up for the rest of the person’s life. The experts on Christian OCD say to learn to manage it, but not to expect it to go away.

Grantley Morris, like Oswald Chambers, talks about the connection between the natural and spiritual. He says that when Christ was tempted in the wilderness, Satan took advantage of an abnormal condition in the Lord’s body: extreme hunger. Morris says that the devil’s forces also take advantage of the neurological condition of OCD sufferers. But having just read Oswald Chambers today, I am adding a new thought to the matter of OCD and Christians. God uses OCD in Christians to drive them to continuous conversion. Continuous conversion of the type Chambers talks about.



I believe in salvation in a moment; that is thoroughly biblical. I believe in the eternal security of the believer; that is also thoroughly biblical. The New Testament repeatedly makes reference to believers having been converted once in the past. But just like the Bible talks about both predestination and free will – these are two sides of the same supernatural coin, which we cannot understand right now, at least - the Bible also presents other paradoxes of the supernatural realm. One is the Bible’s insistence on the believer’s eternal security versus statements in the Bible such as, “He who endures to the end will be saved.” We cannot figure out supernatural things with our natural minds; the supernatural truth is paradoxical. Just as the best advice is not to get caught up in thoughts about pre-destination, but rather to concentrate on “repent and believe the gospel,” (“God is willing that none should perish but that all should come to repentance”), the best advice for those driven to repeatedly give their lives to Christ is: keep it up! This is continuous conversion, which Oswald Chambers says God wants of all of us.
 

Kermos

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Conversion refers to being born afresh in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 18:3, John 3:3-8). Conversion is not portrayed as a "continuous" process in the Bible.

God takes the children of God on a walk called sanctification. Sanctification is portrayed as a continuous process in the Bible.

Nowhere in the Bible does God state that mankind was imparted a free-will to choose God unto salvation.

In fact, the Word of God is very clear as this other thread on ChristianForums.com illumines scripturally, the will of God exclusively (1) chooses the children of God (John 15:16, John 15:19), (2) causes the children of God to believe in Jesus (John 6:29), (3) wrings good deeds/works/fruit in the children of God (John 3:21), (4) births/generates the children of God anew (John 3:3-8), (5) is the source of righteous repentance in the children of God (Matthew 11:25) , and (6) is the fountain of love in the children of God (John 13:34).
 
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Bob8102

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Conversion refers to being born afresh in the Holy Spirit (Matthew 18:3, John 3:3-8). Conversion is not portrayed as a "continuous" process in the Bible.

God takes the children of God on a walk called sanctification. Sanctification is portrayed as a continuous process in the Bible.

Nowhere in the Bible does God state that mankind was imparted a free-will to choose God unto salvation.

In fact, the Word of God is very clear as this other thread on ChristianForums.com illumines scripturally, the will of God exclusively (1) chooses the children of God (John 15:16, John 15:19), (2) causes the children of God to believe in Jesus (John 6:29), (3) wrings good deeds/works/fruit in the children of God (John 3:21), (4) births/generates the children of God anew (John 3:3-8), (5) is the source of righteous repentance in the children of God (Matthew 11:25) , and (6) is the fountain of love in the children of God (John 13:34).
I see you are concentrating on the Predestination/Election side of the coin. But free will is on the other side of the coin.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I see you are concentrating on the Predestination/Election side of the coin. But free will is on the other side of the coin.
Not that I agree with you that free will is "on the other side of the coin", but that is hardly the point. Whether one believes in freewill or not, conversion, i.e. being born again, is a one-time thing. Walking with God begins there, and that is when a first-time-surrender to God occurs. But continual or even continuous surrendering is not conversion, but the characteristic mode of growth in the Lord. From the first drink, the Living Water continues to flow.

Theologically, Regeneration is not the same as Sanctification, though the power and behind both is of God.
 
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Kermos

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I see you are concentrating on the Predestination/Election side of the coin. But free will is on the other side of the coin.

The Bible is not a coin to be flipped at man's self will (2 Peter 2:9-10), that by man's concocted free will, mere man insinuates precepts into the Scriptures (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God is immutable, and the Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

The absence of any scriptural support for free will in your post is very telling because nowhere in the Bible does God state that mankind was imparted a free-will to choose Christ Jesus unto salvation.
 
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