2 kinds of Holy Spirit Fillings

Peter J Barban said:

I'm not taking a strong stand on this issue. Jesus breathed on them and said “Receive the Holy Spirit." but the Bible doesn't clearly say what the result was. As you said, it has already been discussed.

On another note, even though we know the Holy Spirit is a person, collectively, we can't stop thinking of the Holy Spirit as a depletable energy source. It's hard to understand that we can't run out of Holy Spirit and need an external refill. If anything the Holy Spirit is a continually renewing living water, always working in us, whether we notice or not.

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I'm at work currently. When I get home I'll expand on it some, but it's good that you are being flexible.

Take everything to GOD, never completely rely on men and their opinions. It's the only way you will get to the truth.

ARBITER01 said:

We just went through this in this very thread.

The consensus was that this was not an event that gave the apostles the newborn life since Thomas wasn't there when Jesus did this, and it was probably just a blessing of sorts for them while pointing towards the future event of acts 2.

The church started over in acts 2 not before that. GOD didn't discriminate and give the newborn life to some of the 120 while the rest had to wait, everyone had to wait for the arrival of The Holy Spirit to have the newborn life.

You're posting without reading much of the thread.

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I posted a whole lot more than the reference in John and my point does not hinge upon the John passage. Paul speaks of "gifts" (charisma) of the HS which is more appropriately connected with a salvation experience and used for edification of the church (inner focus) or gifts upon grace (which is what charisma means) Acts is the "gift" (dorea) of the HS and seems more outward focused. the two do not follow the same rules, the most evident is Paul teaches the charisma of the HS is discriminate but the baptism of the HS as shown in Acts is indiscriminate and all appear to receive the same from the HS. You can rationalize John 20:22 away through some group consensus but I think you've missed the point, throw it away if you want, Paul and Acts still speak of contrasting experiences. My point with John 20:22 was establishing an initiating experience that was more akin to "gifts" (charisma) of the HS than the "gift" (dorea) of the HS and consistent with the points of the article in the OP.

One of the sections of scripture on this topic that was placed on my mind by The Holy Spirit was 1 Corinthians 12:13,..

1Co 12:13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

We each had a Spiritual immersion/born again experience to where we were adopted into Christ's family and sealed with The Holy Spirit.

Now when did this Spiritual immersion happen for the apostles? I say it happened when Jesus told them it was going to happen,...

Act 1:5 for John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days after.”

This was why I was pointing to this section in Acts before in the thread. If they had received their Spiritual immersion already back when Jesus blew upon them, then Jesus would not have told them to wait for The Holy Spirit so that they could have an Immersion by Him then in acts. It would have been pointless.

ARBITER01 said:

This was why I was pointing to this section in Acts before in the thread. If they had received their Spiritual immersion already back when Jesus blew upon them, then Jesus would not have told them to wait for The Holy Spirit so that they could have an Immersion by Him then in acts. It would have been pointless.

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Unless it was two separate events. Salvation and empowering.

Question: Can you be saved and not have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

hislegacy said:

Unless it was two separate events. Salvation and empowering.

Question: Can you be saved and not have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

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An immersion is not a filling.

Certain Protestant denominations do it all the time. They take two steps and quit basically.

When we are saved we are immersed/sealed with The Holy Spirit, and then with the subsequent event we are filled with The Holy Spirit.

ARBITER01 said:

When we are saved we are immersed/sealed with The Holy Spirit, and then with the subsequent event we are filled with The Holy Spirit.

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That is what I have been saying - not the EXACT same words - but the same meaning.

hislegacy said:

Unless it was two separate events. Salvation and empowering.

Question: Can you be saved and not have the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

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Acts would say yes.

Peter J Barban said:

For me at least, it's hard to make Acts the normative experience for Christians today -one way or the other.

When in doubt I go the Apostolic letters in the New Testament. They show what was expected of the early Church/Christian experience.

For example, spiritual gifts are important, but tongues was not essential; being filled with the Spirit and Walking in the Spirit are essential, but the processes are largely ignored.

Let's not be dogmatic where the Bible is vague, especially in the work of the HolySpirit.

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Acts very clearly contrasts the experience Paul speaks of in 1 Cor 12-14. Are you saying it's better to sweep these Acts experiences under a 1st century rug? Do you have biblical presedence to do so? When you read Acts it sets an expectation of the Holy Spirit that is hard to reject. I would rather work at reconciling Paul's instruction and what actually happens in Acts than toss one out because it's too uncomfortable.

"Pray without ceasing." I Thess 5:17

"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:" I Cor 14:18 The other believers were continuing to speak in tongues. Acts 2, 4

'What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also." I Cor 14:15

Some say what about love. "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1:20-21

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues...." I Cor 12:28

Includes:
1- Personal prayer language - who,speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself..." (I Cor 14:4). I don't have to have science to support Scripture to believe it. But think it's interesting that research reveals that praying in tongues for extended periods of time improves our immune systems by 35 to 40%. Research by Dr Carl Petersen, ORU, brain specialist. Also, Jude 1:20; I Cor 14 :2, 27-28).
2 - Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit (Rom 8:26-27).
3- Warfare language - (Eph 6:18-19 The spiritual armor)
4 - Prophetic language - (I Cor 12:10; 14:5, 26)
5 - Praise language - (Acts 10:24, 45-46).
6 - Singing in the Spirit (I Cor 14:14-15).
7 - Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not a language the speaker has learned). (Acts 2: 4, 6. 8).

Jesus said " ...Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;..." Mark 16

For the most part the church would not accept the NT writers especially Paul in our congregations today --- - they speak in tongues!

I find that a funny reality.

Hark said:

The only one baptism of the Spirit which occurs at the born again of the Spirit moment at our salvation that I agree with.

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Wrong!, not only you are teaching something false brother, you are misleading people in not receiving this great blessing even to yourself too!. We need to seek being filled with the Holy spirit, maybe God fills someone when they believe, but probably no, God comes to live with us when we believe, but not neccesarily the Holy spirit is filiing us like the bible says... Ah and you will notice if you are filled with him, you will.

'You received the Holy spirit when you believed?, we even not heard of the Holy spirit they replied, and then the apostle laid hands on them and they were filled with the Holy spirit'