Baptisms
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
I thought I made sense.
What I’m basically saying is that water baptism is not said in scripture to represent the inward new north reality that we have. Abs I’m saying we don’t need water baptism now. It was an d testament shadow and ordinance
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Jesus said it's "... fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness," All 3 persons of the Godhead endorsed it (Matt 3:13-16).
"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." I John 5:7-8
"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." I John 5:7-8
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
Jesus alone could fulfill all righteousness he alone kept all the law was circumcised as a Jew and was under the law. We do not need to be under the law he fulfilled all for us. And we read that it is not by works of righteousness that we have done …it is by grace through faith we are saved. We are in Him in spirit and walk in the spirit the letter kills the spirit gives life . If you say we have to do things because Jesus did then we should all go to the temple sacrifice abs be circumcised and keep the whole law etc
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
To be immersed into a name is a different issue. In Matthew at the end we see Jesus saying to teach all nations baptizing them into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Jesus while he was on Earth said he kept the disciples in the name of the Father and he revealed the Fathers name. What dies it mean to you to be kept in the name of the Father.
"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."(John 17:6 KJV)
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."(John 17:12 KJV)
He manifested (revealed) the name and kept them in the name. The name of the Lord is a high tower, the righteous run into it and are safe.
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
Ind
Read Acts 26 and see that Paul circumcised Timothy not offend the believing Jews, abs ask should we do so today? Then read Acts 21 snd see Paul going into the temple with believing Jews who were professing believers in Jesus to do animal sacrifices and keep the whole law. And ask should we do so also today because no doubt they did it in scripture?
The answer is no, we don’t need to do those things. John’s water baptism was a old testament type one of the diverse washings imposed on the Jews until the time of reformation. Read Hebrews 9
I don’t doubt that the Jewish believers followed John’s water baptism for a long time after Jesus died, even though in Acts one he told them Johns water baptism was past and to make way for the Spirit baptism. But the early Jewish believers also went into the temple sacrificed animals still and circumcised and kept the whole law and customs for a long time after, and there is no doubt about this from scripture. So does that mean we are to do donalso because the early transition and reformation of the old to the New Testament is recorded in scripture? No, how we interpret the things done is the issue.
Read Acts 26 and see that Paul circumcised Timothy not offend the believing Jews, abs ask should we do so today? Then read Acts 21 snd see Paul going into the temple with believing Jews who were professing believers in Jesus to do animal sacrifices and keep the whole law. And ask should we do so also today because no doubt they did it in scripture?
The answer is no, we don’t need to do those things. John’s water baptism was a old testament type one of the diverse washings imposed on the Jews until the time of reformation. Read Hebrews 9
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Albion
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I was referring to Christian baptism, not what is called the Baptism of John in order to keep the two separate, as the Bible does.
"What was done" was baptism into the faith of Jesus by people who heard and believed the Gospel message, and it was done according to Christ's instructions in Matthew, not the Baptism of John.
Animal sacrifice and circumcisions are a diversion in this thread. If we're talking about the sacrament of Baptism, the New Testament makes it amply clear that this was administered to converts to the new faith, that it was on Christ's own command, that it was different from John's baptisms, and that it used water. All of that is recorded in God's word.
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ARBITER01
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It seems like you have taken on some oddball ideas from someone. I don't mean that badly, we all get misled at some point in our walk. What matters is if we take these things to GOD and ask Him to sort them out for us so we don't rely on men and their opinions all the time.
If you want to believe in a different view convening water immersion, you're welcome to, but unless you find like people who believe the same as you do, you will continue to have disagreements with other folks besides myself all the time.
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
No odd ball ideas ,all I say is clearly seen in scripture. And yes others do agree with this and have all through Christendom for centuries.
to immerse into a name (character authority, life abs power etc) is not water baptism.
We never see in scripture anyone using the formula of Matthew
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
The Jews were still practicing John’s water baptism after Christ death as scripture shows .
man’s as far as Matthew
To be immersed into a name is a different issue. In Matthew at the end we see Jesus saying to teach all nations baptizing them into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Jesus while he was on Earth said he kept the disciples in the name of the Father and he revealed the Fathers name. What dies it mean to you to be kept in the name of the Father.
"I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."(John 17:6 KJV)
"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."(John 17:12 KJV)
He manifested (revealed) the name and kept them in the name. The name of the Lord is a high tower, the righteous run into it and are safe
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
I can show clearly that the Jewish believers in Jesus still went to the temple and sacrificed animals, circumcision, kept the law and were still under the law and customs and followed Johns water baptism (Acts 10,11 15,21, etc) This is all clear in scripture. Others have seen it.
But the argument that says ,”if the majority don’t see something they must be right” is a false idea. Jesus and the apostles of his day were in the minority. Men like Luther and Huss and Wycliffe were in the minority abs would have had a similar argument used against them.
and as far as “a formula” .you know what I mean many assume Matthew 28 is a formula to water baptize. But we see no such words over others spoken in scripture and I challenge any to show the word “water” baptism In Matthew.we don’t see the word “water” there. It is added by many. Sometimes we can understand water used but not in all cases. To baptize or immerse into a name is a spiritual thing. . Jesus said he kept them in the name of the Father. What do you suppose he meant by that? Or we read that the name of the Lord is a strong tower, the righteous run INTO it and are safe. What does that mean? How do you run into the name?
more study is needed by some here to address these issues. We must not rely on man’s traditions to understand this.
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
There is no “denominations” in scripture. That is carnal to divide under names like we, read in 1 Corinthians 1
the word denomination means to make a name. The name makers were first seen when the Tower of Babel came along . Mystery Babylon is connected to this as well, but that’s a long discussion .
and if we see any believers in scripture teaching truth and we believe it it doesn’t matter if many don’t see it. We follow Christ not the crowds
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
There have been a few so called groups that hold to no water baptism over the centuries. Go read up on them. But we see Paul the apostle put an end to it in 1 Cor 1 he thanked God that he did so little if it for God sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel.
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
There have been a few so called groups that hold to no water baptism over the centuries. Go read up on them. But we see Paul the apostle put an end to it in 1 Cor 1 he thanked God that he did so little if it for God sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel.
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LoveofTruth
Christ builds His church from within us
Stick with scripture, don’t worry about man’s denominations and traditions that make the word if no effect.
if you have the witness of the Spirit abs scripture and believers, stick with that even if all others don’t see it.
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