2 kinds of Holy Spirit Fillings

topher694 said:

Yep, I called it out and he didn't seem to like it or even understand.

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I think he is a forum troll. There's no way,... absolutely no way that this person has been with The Lord 50 years and can be this messed up in any sort of proper understanding of scripture.

At this point I can't stop laughing at some of the stuff he posts, lol.

Hark said:

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

The message is that we are a new creature in Christ Jesus able to hold the new wine hence the forever indwelling Holy Spirit and how they are both preserved is a testimony that we are saved since salvation.

To infer a continual filling is to deny the vessel as able to hold the wine to be preserved.

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You seem to be conflating the indwelling of the Holy Spirit with being filled with the Holy Spirit. Here is a good article on the difference between the two: What is the Difference Between the Indwelling of the Spirit and Being Filled by the Spirit? - Think Life Change

Furthermore, it is entirely possible for a Christian to lose the influence of the Holy Spirit upon their life and even apostatize:

2 Peter 2:20-22:


Ephesians 4:25-32:


1 Thessalonians 5:16-22:

Hark said:

If you read the end of that chapter, they were new believers for how they sold everything, laying it at the apostle's feet in distributing it evenly among that new community of 5,000 believers.

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Not all of them were new believers, at the very least Peter and John were among them, and probably many other long-term disciples too. Moreover, the text is explicitly talking about the empowering of servants for preaching, meaning that they were already saved (a servant is already saved, and therefore is already indwelled with the Holy Spirit):

29 And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

Hark said:

But at which point, Paul was not saved until he was born again of the Spirit.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

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So are you saying that the apostles were not saved prior to Pentecost (Acts 2)?

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Before verse 4, none of them were saved?

Hark said:

Again, they were not saved yet having not the Holy Spirit yet but just water baptized in Jesus's name. even Simon had to have his sights lifted up higher in coming to Jesus rather than looking at Philip and now Peter & john as if they are the ones doing all these miracles. They had to come to Jesus in believing in Him in order to be saved rather than thinking so as through them.

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They had to be saved according to Mark 16:15-16:

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Then read Acts 8 again:

12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. 14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Hark said:

So that verse is not really a call to seek to be filled with the Person of the Holy Spirit but rather remain filled as in self control.

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Because you can lose the filling

Hark said:

This verse below in addition to Matthew 9:17 is why there is no more filling to be had after our salvation for that would go against the promise from Jesus after coming to & believing in Him to be saved.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

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In John 6:35-40 Jesus is talking about eternal life (after the resurrection), in which He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:4).

But that's obviously not true of this earthly life, which is full of ups and downs.

Moreover, asking for more of the Holy Spirit is completely biblical. See Luke 11:5-13:

5 And he said to them, “Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, 6 for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything’? 8 I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs. 9 And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. 11 What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; 12 or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

Why would a son (who is already saved, and therefore already indwelled) ask for the Holy Spirit ???

Because it is possible to experience greater fillings and manifestations of the Holy Spirit

ARBITER01 said:

I think he is a forum troll. There's no way,... absolutely no way that this person has been with The Lord 50 years and can be this mess up in any sort of proper understanding of scripture.

At this point I can't stop laughing at some of the stuff he posts, lol.

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It's funny, sad and frustrating all rolled into one.

hislegacy said:

Explain:

John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Did Jesus lie? Did Jesus not know He couldn't give the Holy Spirit? Why would Jesus say "Receive the Holy Spirit" if He didn't have the Holy Spirit to give?

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At this point in scripture, the only thing that Jesus did was direct them toward what they should receive.

You've taken on an idea that you think is true, so let's take this one step at a time.

What we pay attention to is what happened in acts, not what happened over in John, because what happened in acts was the actual beginning of the church,...

Act 1:4 And assembling together with them, He charged them not to leave Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father, “which you heard of Me;
Act 1:5 for John indeed immersed in water, but you will be immersed in the Holy Spirit not many days after.”

What was the promise of The Father? The Holy Spirit's arrival.

You're believing that The Holy Spirit was already given to the disciples over in John, yet we have Jesus telling them to wait and receive The Holy Spirit over in acts??? Does that make sense at all? It shouldn't.

hislegacy said:

Explain they received from Jesus then -

- John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

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A temporary infilling just like He did for His disciples in Matthew 10th chapter which included Judas Iscariot whom was not really a believer. That s how it was for all saints in the O.T. for when they had the Holy Spirit as a temporary infilling; not a forever indwelling as that can only happen at salvation for all who believe in Him when He was no longer present with them but gone to the Father.

ARBITER01 said:

At this point in scripture, the only thing that Jesus did was direct them toward what they should receive.

You've taken on an idea that you think is true, so let's take this one step at a time.

What we pay attention to is what happened in acts, not what happened over in John, because what happened in acts was the actual beginning of the church,...

Act 1:4 And assembling together with them, He charged them not to leave Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father, “which you heard of Me;
Act 1:5 for John indeed immersed in water, but you will be immersed in the Holy Spirit not many days after.”

What was the promise of The Father? The Holy Spirit's arrival.

You're believing that The Holy Spirit was already given to the disciples over in John, yet we have Jesus telling them to wait and receive The Holy Spirit over in acts??? Does that make sense at all? It shouldn't.

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That doesn't in any way address my question:

Explain:

John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Did Jesus lie? Did Jesus not know He couldn't give the Holy Spirit? Why would Jesus say "Receive the Holy Spirit" if He didn't have the Holy Spirit to give?

Hark said:

A temporary infilling just like He did for His disciples in Matthew 10th chapter which included Judas Iscariot whom was not really a believer. That s how it was for all saints in the O.T. for when they had the Holy Spirit as a temporary infilling; not a forever indwelling as that can only happen at salvation for all who believe in Him when He was no longer present with them but gone to the Father.

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Sorry, I find zero sustaining evidence of a temporary infilling -

hislegacy said:

That doesn't in any way address my question:

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Yes it does, you're still wanting me to answer your section of scripture when I already did so with acts.

Point 2,...

Notice what Jesus says,...

Act 1:5 for John indeed immersed in water, but you will be immersed in the Holy Spirit not many days after.”

If the disciples were already sealed with The Holy Spirit over in John, ie had received a portion of Him inside and been regenerated, then why did Jesus say they would be immersed in Him over in acts??

Why didn't Jesus tell them they would be "filled" with The Holy Spirit instead since they already had been sealed with The Holy Spirit?

You see how this idea you've taken on creates a contradiction doctrinally in scripture?

TruthSeek3r said:

You seem to be conflating the indwelling of the Holy Spirit with being filled with the Holy Spirit. Here is a good article on the difference between the two: What is the Difference Between the Indwelling of the Spirit and Being Filled by the Spirit? - Think Life Change

Furthermore, it is entirely possible for a Christian to lose the influence of the Holy Spirit upon their life and even apostatize:

2 Peter 2:20-22:

20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”​

Ephesians 4:25-32:

25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil. 28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. 29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.​

1 Thessalonians 5:16-22:

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies, 21 but test everything; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.​

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Ephesians 4:30 explains how that seal of adoption is permanent as unto that day of redemption. That seal is not going anywhere just as that foundation laid by Jesus Christ is not going anywhere. So that is why we are to be held accountable for what we sow towards for our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Not all of them were new believers, at the very least Peter and John were among them, and probably many other long-term disciples too. Moreover, the text is explicitly talking about the empowering of servants for preaching, meaning that they were already saved (a servant is already saved, and therefore is already indwelled with the Holy Spirit):

29 And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

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If they were already saved when they had prayed that prayer, then why sell all that they have, laying it at the apostles feet before distributing evenly to every member as if being that new community of 5,000 believers? So no. When Peter & John got arrested, they potential 5,000 believers were not saved yet.

So are you saying that the apostles were not saved prior to Pentecost (Acts 2)?

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Before verse 4, none of them were saved?

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Correct.

They had to be saved according to Mark 16:15-16:

15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

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Again the promise of the forever indwellling holy Ghost will only come at our salvation when Jesus was no longer present with them. John 14:1-3 John 14:16-17 & John 14:25-26

Then read Acts 8 again:

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out of bracket so you can see this truth that they never had the Holy Spirit yet.

12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. 14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Because you can lose the filling

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But that is not what had happened there. They never had Him.

In John 6:35-40 Jesus is talking about eternal life (after the resurrection), in which He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:4).

But that's obviously not true of this earthly life, which is full of ups and downs.

Click to expand...

But Jesus is with us always per Matthew 28:20 & so is that seal of adoption Ephesians 4:30

Moreover, asking for more of the Holy Spirit is completely biblical. See Luke 11:5-13:

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Out of bracket so you can read those verses.

5 And he said to them, “Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, 6 for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything’? 8 I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs. 9 And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. 11 What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; 12 or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

Why would a son (who is already saved, and therefore already indwelled) ask for the Holy Spirit ???

Because it is possible to experience greater fillings and manifestations of the Holy Spirit

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I read the emboldened red that after having asked he would not ask for that Holy Spirit again. Luke 11:9-13 testify to that reality clearer after knocking at the door of Jesus Christ metaphorically.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

That means after the promise has bene given, no believer should ask for the holy Spirit again unless they make the Father look evil as if He did not give the Holy Spirit the first time for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ. So I do not see any continual filling of the Spirit but an assurance that we will never hunger nor thirst to be filled again after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

That is Good News to me in being always Spirit filled since salvation as a testimony from God that we are always saved.

hislegacy said:

That doesn't in any way address my question:

Explain:

John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Did Jesus lie? Did Jesus not know He couldn't give the Holy Spirit? Why would Jesus say "Receive the Holy Spirit" if He didn't have the Holy Spirit to give?


Sorry, I find zero sustaining evidence of a temporary infilling -

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Only God can cause the increase so I leave you in His hands.

TruthSeek3r said:

Because you can lose the filling

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Ah ah ah,.... you can quench The Holy Spirit in you,... but you do not lose Him.

All of your post was really good though!

First off, this post is not pointing fingers at any individual, but is simply and observation coming from a place of considerable experience on this topic.

When writing to the Corinthians in 1 Cor 3, the Apostle Paul basically said, ya'll have been, and still are, too immature for the meat of the word, you are only capable of handling the milk of the word. This means that everything that follows is what Paul considers "milk" for the spiritually immature. Including 1 Cor 12, 13 & 14 and the gifts of the Spirit.

When talking to the immature Corinthian church Paul gave ordered lists, descriptions and instructions on these things. What is the point? Nitpicking about details and definitions is immaturity, not maturity. When writing to mature churches Paul didn't define every little thing. Instead he encouraged them by saying things like, "continue to walk in the Spirit". The mature believers didn't need definitions, or to argue over which words were used. They knew the Spirit. They knew how to act upon His unction. They had been successful in it before, so Paul just encouraged them: "Keep doing what you have been doing!"

If "filled", "refilled", "one filling", "two filling", "indwelled" or any other similar language were actually important Jesus could have easily indicated as much. But He didn't. He said they'd get the Holy Spirit and power. He told them to wait for it in Jerusalem. He didn't tell them what it would be like when it came... why? Because when it came they KNEW it. There was no denying it. Call it whatever you what. Give it whatever name seems fitting. It doesn't matter because THIS is what Jesus was talking about, there's no doubt about it. In fact the only time we see such things directly addressed is when Paul is admonishing them for their petty arguing over them.

It should be no different today. You can calling it a "filling" or a "baptism" or whatever you want. Perhaps it came when you got saved, perhaps it came after, but regardless of those details, I KNOW I HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT! There can be do doubt. "This is that" which the prophet spoke of and the more I walk in it (versus debate it) the more I get to know Him, and the better I can follow His leading.

Understand, milk isn't a bad thing, we all start there, but... Drinking milk and proclaiming it is meat is not good. Arguing over whose milk is better for you is not good. When those things start happening it crosses over from the natural spiritual growth process to a religious system similar to what the Pharisees did: argue over the minutia, pridefully thinking you've got it all figured out, but in reality actually hindering others rather than helping them.

Hark said:

Ephesians 4:30 explains how that seal of adoption is permanent as unto that day of redemption. That seal is not going anywhere just as that foundation laid by Jesus Christ is not going anywhere. So that is why we are to be held accountable for what we sow towards for our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

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Again, those passages are talking about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, not the infilling. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is a different experience. Here are a couple of good articles on the difference between the two:

Filling versus Indwelling by the Holy Spirit - Armour's Answers

What is the Difference Between the Indwelling of the Spirit and Being Filled by the Spirit? - Think Life Change

Hark said:

If they were already saved when they had prayed that prayer, then why sell all that they have, laying it at the apostles feet before distributing evenly to every member as if being that new community of 5,000 believers? So no. When Peter & John got arrested, they potential 5,000 believers were not saved yet.

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That's absurd. Read Acts 2:40-47:


Acts 2:47 cannot be more explicit: "... those who were being saved".

Tons of believers were already being saved. Thousands. And that's two chapters before Acts 4.

So no, they were already saved.

Moreover, Acts 4:31 says: And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

Note the word "all". They were ALL filled, including Peter, John and many other believers that were ALREADY SAVED as Acts 2:47 EXPLICITLY states.

Hark said:

Correct.

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That's absurd. Are you really saying that the apostles were lost prior to Acts 2?

They lived with Jesus for 3.5 years, they saw Him in resurrected form for 40 days, Jesus was their Master, Lord and Savior, they were all together in the upper room for about 10 days in prayer and probably fasting, waiting for the promise, and are you really going to say that no one of the apostles was saved? Sorry, but that just makes no sense whatsoever.

Hark said:

Again the promise of the forever indwellling holy Ghost will only come at our salvation when Jesus was no longer present with them. John 14:1-3 John 14:16-17 & John 14:25-26

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And again you seem to be confusing the indwelling of the Holy Spirit with the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Please refer to the links at the top of this post.

Hark said:

out of bracket so you can see this truth that they never had the Holy Spirit yet.

12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. 14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

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Verse 15 is saying that they hadn't received the Holy Spirit yet in a supernatural, manifest manner. That's why it says "for he had not yet fallen on any of them", it is talking about the Holy Spirit falling upon them in supernatural fashion, as the baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2, with supernatural manifestations. That's why Simon was astonished by this power and said:


Acts 8 is talking about the supernatural baptism of the Holy Spirit with clear manifestations (to the point that Simon was tempted to offer money to the Apostles in exchange for this power), not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Hark said:

But Jesus is with us always per Matthew 28:20 & so is that seal of adoption Ephesians 4:30

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Again, refer to the links at the top on the difference between the indwelling and the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Hark said:

That means after the promise has bene given, no believer should ask for the holy Spirit again unless they make the Father look evil as if He did not give the Holy Spirit the first time for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ. So I do not see any continual filling of the Spirit but an assurance that we will never hunger nor thirst to be filled again after coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

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Which is completely refuted by Acts 4:31. They were already saved, and yet they prayed to God, and they received a fresh infilling of the Holy Spirit to continue to preach the gospel with boldness, with signs and wonders.

29 And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

ARBITER01 said:

Yes it does, you're still wanting me to answer your section of scripture when I already did so with acts.

Point 2,...

Notice what Jesus says,...

Act 1:5 for John indeed immersed in water, but you will be immersed in the Holy Spirit not many days after.”

If the disciples were already sealed with The Holy Spirit over in John, ie had received a portion of Him inside and been regenerated, then why did Jesus say they would be immersed in Him over in acts??

Why didn't Jesus tell them they would be "filled" with The Holy Spirit instead since they already had been sealed with The Holy Spirit?

You see how this idea you've taken on creates a contradiction doctrinally in scripture?

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That doesn’t answer my question regarding them receiving the Holy Spirit in John 20.

ARBITER01 said:

Act 1:5 for John indeed immersed in water, but you will be immersed in the Holy Spirit not many days after.”

If the disciples were already sealed with The Holy Spirit over in John, ie had received a portion of Him inside and been regenerated, then why did Jesus say they would be immersed in Him over in acts??

Why didn't Jesus tell them they would be "filled" with The Holy Spirit instead since they already had been sealed with The Holy Spirit?

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It looks like being immersed/baptized in the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit are equivalent expressions:

Acts 1:4-8 (YLT)


Acts 2:4 (YLT)

TruthSeek3r said:

It looks like being immersed/baptized in the Holy Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit are equivalent expressions:

Acts 1:4-8 (YLT)

4 And being assembled together with them, he commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he,] `Ye did hear of me;
5 because John, indeed, baptized with water, and ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit -- after not many days.'
6 They, therefore, indeed, having come together, were questioning him, saying, `Lord, dost thou at this time restore the reign to Israel?'
7 and he said unto them, `It is not yours to know times or seasons that the Father did appoint in His own authority;
8 but ye shall receive power at the coming of the Holy Spirit upon you, and ye shall be witnesses to me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and unto the end of the earth.'​

Acts 2:4 (YLT)

4 and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare.​

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Not at all.

This is where I was mentioning to Topher about getting in the weeds on the subject,...

To be born again means you were immersed "in" The Holy spirit where He applied the blood of Jesus to your human spirit and renewed it into His likeness.

When we are water immersed/baptised, it is to declare what has happened to us spiritually,... we are immersed in the water,..water being symbolic of The Holy Spirit, and we are then raised out of the water demonstrating newness of life,.. ie born again.

To be filled of The Holy Spirit means that your whole human spirit within you receives a greater amount throughout your torso inside, and this also brings in the gifts of The Spirit. When you are born again you are only sealed with The Holy Spirit,... have a portion of Him within you. Filling brings in the fullness of Him within you.

The differences being that one speaks of the new life, and the other speaks of a greater step or furtherance in that new life.

It's better to keep them separate.

hislegacy said:

That doesn’t answer my question regarding them receiving the Holy Spirit in John 20.

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They didn't, in fact they couldn't have because The Holy Spirit was not yet given to Jesus to be poured out unto us.

The church started in acts 2, not before that.

ARBITER01 said:

Not at all.

This is where I was mentioning to Topher about getting in the weeds on the subject,...

To be born again means you were immersed "in" The Holy spirit where He applied the blood of Jesus to your human spirit and renewed it into His likeness.

When we are water immersed/baptised, it is to declare what has happened to us spiritually,... we are immersed in the water,..water being symbolic of The Holy Spirit, and we are then raised out of the water demonstrating newness of life,.. ie born again.

To be filled of The Holy Spirit means that your whole human spirit within you receives a greater amount throughout your torso inside, and this also brings in the gifts of The Spirit. When you are born again you are only sealed with The Holy Spirit,... have a portion of Him within you. Filling brings in the fullness of Him within you.

The differences being that one speaks of the new life, and the other speaks of a greater step or furtherance in that new life.

It's better to keep them separate.

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Then what do you make of the two passages I explicitly quoted? Acts 1:4-8 is very evidently referring to the experience the disciples went through in Acts 2:4, yet the vocabulary used in each passage is different. What do we make of that?

TruthSeek3r said:

Then what do you make of the two passages I explicitly quoted? Acts 1:4-8 is very evidently referring to the experience the disciples went through in Acts 2:4, yet the vocabulary used in each passage is different. What do we make of that?

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Check your translation.

Baptized is not a translated word, it is a transliterated word. The Greek word means to immerse, dip, or cleanse, and when translated correctly like that, it brings out the meaning better.

Do understand something here, Acts 2 brought about two things to the 120 in the room, they were immersed in The Holy Spirit and renewed, then they were immediately filled with The Spirit and the gifts operating through them. This happened to Cornelius's household also.

GOD bypassed water immersion in these two events. GOD made these two events happen back to back for the different groups involved (Jew and Gentile) where we have to seek the filling of The Holy Spirit nowadays after we are born again and water immersed, but that is the example of Jesus though, each being separate.

ARBITER01 said:

They didn't, in fact they couldn't have because The Holy Spirit was not yet given to Jesus to be poured out unto us.

The church started in acts 2, not before that.

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Thank you for repeating the answer. It brings back the question again of what Jesus was speaking of when He said “Receive the Holy Spirit”? He didn’t say wait, the term was present tense.

can you please explain what Jesus was speaking of?

hislegacy said:

Thank you for repeating the answer. It brings back the question again of what Jesus was speaking of when He said “Receive the Holy Spirit”? He didn’t say wait, the term was present tense.

can you please explain what Jesus was speaking of?

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You can't rely on Greek tenses over this, nice try.

When was The Holy Spirit poured out?

I'll answer that for you,...

Act 2:33 Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear.

It didn't happen prior to Acts 2, sorry.