Concern about theology.…

Blaise N said:

Please,I’m in tears right now,can someone please help explain any bigger picture to help me in understanding because I’ll accept advice no matter how small.

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That is called paralysis by analysis.

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
In all your ways acknowledge Him,

No one gets this all at once.
Pick a church that works right now. God can correct you as you go.

Blaise N said:

Hi everyone

I really need questionnaire help…

*So as a pre-note it is not my intention to insult anyone on either side of the theological spectrum*

So I’m very confused on which theological side is true or right.

On one side there are Arminians calling Calvinists heretics,a false religion,and cruel

Then in the other side there are Calvinists calling Arminians Decieved,sugar coated,and heretics as well

And then there’s me,All day I’ve been anxious.I can’t tell if it’s conviction,but I’ve been convinced to repent of what I believe Calvinists call true.I have never found Calvinism or reformed theology comforting.
It’s brought me anxiety,doubts,immense fear.I’ve constantly doubted I’d God loves me,wether he wants to save me,and wether he desires to help me because of reformed theology.

But then at the same time Calvinists saying things like “my way or the highway(to hell)”
I’m just so scared,I don’t know what side is true,I don’t know what sides interpretation of scripture is correctz

Here are scriptures that trouble me:

“who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1st Timothy 2:4,where Calvinists say all means “all the elect” which always brings me anxietyand never has never brought me comfort.

and Arminians say all as in all who desire to be saved and God desires to save all but still respects free wil

and then Calvinists abiding to tulip and their acronym definition of limited atonement where it says “Christ only died for the elect”
Which has also never brought me comfort and constantly makes me doubt,though I don’t follow Calvinism,what if I’m not an elect,then “God is angry at me and doesn’t want anything to do with me”

Then the scripture that scares me the most in general and specifically today,Hebrews 6:4-6

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,” which makes me tremendously worried that “If reformed theology is false,then I’ve committed apostasy following a heresy and now I’m scared I’m condemned forever regardless that I want to repent of it and not return”and “that I should just turn away”-scary part which I’m rejecting


Please,I’m in tears right now,can someone please help explain any bigger picture to help me in understanding because I’ll accept advice no matter how small.

Click to expand...

I'm not in a position to call either Calvinists or Arminians heretical. I take somewhat of a middle approach. There is limited predestination in Scripture, but there is also clear choice and responsibility. And I do believe in eternal security.

I think you should avoid the Calvinist vs Arminian debate, at least until your faith and mind are in better places.

I get where your coming from, the other one that hits hard is make sure of your calling and election.

Try free grace, forget the others.

Grace Evangelical Society

Blaise N said:

I’m very confused on which theological side is true or right

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God is not on erred about whether you are acalvanist,Armenia, baptist, methodist, or any other is.

Weare saved through our faith/trust in Jesus and his resurrection.

MayI suggest that you talk to your minister.

Blaise N said:

Christ only died for the elect”

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Do you really think Jesus Christ of Nazareth only died for a few? At some point common sense needs to kick in right ? Keep it simple Blaise!
Blessings

I have been teaching the Bible for 40 years, you can be saved and godly while believing in Calvinism or Arminianism.

Believing in Christ, you can please him by following these verses:
Micah 6:8-10
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.


While not easy, pleasing God is as simple as
-acting justly
-loving mercy
-walking humbly with God

Blaise N said:

Hi everyone

I really need questionnaire help…

*So as a pre-note it is not my intention to insult anyone on either side of the theological spectrum*

So I’m very confused on which theological side is true or right.

On one side there are Arminians calling Calvinists heretics,a false religion,and cruel

Then in the other side there are Calvinists calling Arminians Decieved,sugar coated,and heretics as well

And then there’s me,All day I’ve been anxious.I can’t tell if it’s conviction,but I’ve been convinced to repent of what I believe Calvinists call true.I have never found Calvinism or reformed theology comforting.
It’s brought me anxiety,doubts,immense fear.I’ve constantly doubted I’d God loves me,wether he wants to save me,and wether he desires to help me because of reformed theology.

But then at the same time Calvinists saying things like “my way or the highway(to hell)”
I’m just so scared,I don’t know what side is true,I don’t know what sides interpretation of scripture is correctz

Here are scriptures that trouble me:

“who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1st Timothy 2:4,where Calvinists say all means “all the elect” which always brings me anxietyand never has never brought me comfort.

and Arminians say all as in all who desire to be saved and God desires to save all but still respects free wil

and then Calvinists abiding to tulip and their acronym definition of limited atonement where it says “Christ only died for the elect”
Which has also never brought me comfort and constantly makes me doubt,though I don’t follow Calvinism,what if I’m not an elect,then “God is angry at me and doesn’t want anything to do with me”

Then the scripture that scares me the most in general and specifically today,Hebrews 6:4-6

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,” which makes me tremendously worried that “If reformed theology is false,then I’ve committed apostasy following a heresy and now I’m scared I’m condemned forever regardless that I want to repent of it and not return”and “that I should just turn away”-scary part which I’m rejecting


Please,I’m in tears right now,can someone please help explain any bigger picture to help me in understanding because I’ll accept advice no matter how small.

Click to expand...

Hi Blaise. If I had remained in Calvinism I would have lost my faith. I was having doubts about it, for example, where were simple working class people in this denomination? Did God only favour middle class professionals who were also pew sitting theologians? This is in the UK by the way.

After much study of the early church fathers, I mean the ones who were divinized, or who attained theosis, none taught TULIP. It all started with Augustine, who changed the interpretation of Romans 7 to a new one. He was not recognized as a pillar of the church till much later.

So I think that Calvinism and Arminianism are both unbalanced and the truth is in the middle - that there is a specific day (or period) for each men, as Christ enlightens every man that comes into the world, in which he can accept this light and come to salvation or can quench it. But the timing is God's. God is no respecter of persons and desires every man to be saved which means zero if on is a Calvinist and cherry picks verses.

Those who are elected are those who are to be formed in His image and as this involves great suffering, are the ones who consent to it.

Blaise N said:

And then there’s me,All day I’ve been anxious.I can’t tell if it’s conviction,but I’ve been convinced to repent of what I believe Calvinists call true.I have never found Calvinism or reformed theology comforting.

Click to expand...

I did not even know that Calvinism was a thing until recent debates with people who believed it. I then went on a journey to discover what I really believed. My thoughts on the topic can be read Is Predestination real? | Everybody Matters Ministry I still do not believe in Calvinism.

Blaise N said:

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,” which makes me tremendously worried that “If reformed theology is false,then I’ve committed apostasy following a heresy and now I’m scared I’m condemned forever regardless that I want to repent of it and not return”and “that I should just turn away”-scary part which I’m rejecting

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I thought I would do a second post on Hebrews 6. The passage has to be read in the light of other scripture. The key part of the passage is:

Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

But if you understand the cross correctly, it is Jesus' righteous life given for a lifetime of sins.

Heb 9:27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

In order to crucify Christ again, a person would have had to die in their sins. Which makes sense in the light of other scripture, which allows the sinner repentance.

Jas 5:19-20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Blaise N said:

Hi everyone

I really need questionnaire help…

*So as a pre-note it is not my intention to insult anyone on either side of the theological spectrum*

So I’m very confused on which theological side is true or right.

On one side there are Arminians calling Calvinists heretics,a false religion,and cruel

Then in the other side there are Calvinists calling Arminians Decieved,sugar coated,and heretics as well

And then there’s me,All day I’ve been anxious.I can’t tell if it’s conviction,but I’ve been convinced to repent of what I believe Calvinists call true.I have never found Calvinism or reformed theology comforting.
It’s brought me anxiety,doubts,immense fear.I’ve constantly doubted I’d God loves me,wether he wants to save me,and wether he desires to help me because of reformed theology.

But then at the same time Calvinists saying things like “my way or the highway(to hell)”
I’m just so scared,I don’t know what side is true,I don’t know what sides interpretation of scripture is correctz

Here are scriptures that trouble me:

“who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1st Timothy 2:4,where Calvinists say all means “all the elect” which always brings me anxietyand never has never brought me comfort.

and Arminians say all as in all who desire to be saved and God desires to save all but still respects free wil

and then Calvinists abiding to tulip and their acronym definition of limited atonement where it says “Christ only died for the elect”
Which has also never brought me comfort and constantly makes me doubt,though I don’t follow Calvinism,what if I’m not an elect,then “God is angry at me and doesn’t want anything to do with me”

Then the scripture that scares me the most in general and specifically today,Hebrews 6:4-6

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,” which makes me tremendously worried that “If reformed theology is false,then I’ve committed apostasy following a heresy and now I’m scared I’m condemned forever regardless that I want to repent of it and not return”and “that I should just turn away”-scary part which I’m rejecting


Please,I’m in tears right now,can someone please help explain any bigger picture to help me in understanding because I’ll accept advice no matter how small.

Click to expand...

If God did anything on the cross it should prove, above anything else, that He is love, that He loves all with a love that would endure all in order to save all. The elect are no more than those who come to Him, and still remain with Him at the end of the day. And He, alone, knows their names with absolute certainty but He desires everyone to turn to Him, for none to perish. He doesn’t care if your theology is perfect; He just wants us to come to Him, to love Him because He first loved us, to love others as He does. The rest is more or less trivia.

Maybe switch off from reading other peoples theology views for a while and just focus on Jesus. He will be searching our heart not our interpretation. I think too many people waste time debating when they could be talking to God or witnessing.
I joined here to find a sort of christian support base at the time I was broken due to loss of a child and I found instead disillusion and confusion to the point I too doubted my own beliefs.
It is damaging to others and new christians especially to read the back and forth debates when really, the only one who knows for sure is God.
He loves you and he died for you because you are his beloved child, you belong to him. Thats all that we essentially need to know for now .

Blaise N said:

Hi everyone

I really need questionnaire help…

*So as a pre-note it is not my intention to insult anyone on either side of the theological spectrum*

So I’m very confused on which theological side is true or right.

On one side there are Arminians calling Calvinists heretics,a false religion,and cruel

Then in the other side there are Calvinists calling Arminians Decieved,sugar coated,and heretics as well

And then there’s me,All day I’ve been anxious.I can’t tell if it’s conviction,but I’ve been convinced to repent of what I believe Calvinists call true.I have never found Calvinism or reformed theology comforting.
It’s brought me anxiety,doubts,immense fear.I’ve constantly doubted I’d God loves me,wether he wants to save me,and wether he desires to help me because of reformed theology.

But then at the same time Calvinists saying things like “my way or the highway(to hell)”
I’m just so scared,I don’t know what side is true,I don’t know what sides interpretation of scripture is correctz

Here are scriptures that trouble me:

“who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1st Timothy 2:4,where Calvinists say all means “all the elect” which always brings me anxietyand never has never brought me comfort.

and Arminians say all as in all who desire to be saved and God desires to save all but still respects free wil

and then Calvinists abiding to tulip and their acronym definition of limited atonement where it says “Christ only died for the elect”
Which has also never brought me comfort and constantly makes me doubt,though I don’t follow Calvinism,what if I’m not an elect,then “God is angry at me and doesn’t want anything to do with me”

Then the scripture that scares me the most in general and specifically today,Hebrews 6:4-6

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,” which makes me tremendously worried that “If reformed theology is false,then I’ve committed apostasy following a heresy and now I’m scared I’m condemned forever regardless that I want to repent of it and not return”and “that I should just turn away”-scary part which I’m rejecting


Please,I’m in tears right now,can someone please help explain any bigger picture to help me in understanding because I’ll accept advice no matter how small.

Click to expand...

We know:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9 KJV

1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 1 Tim. 2: 1-6

If God desires all men to be saved, as I believe 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 declares, and not everyone is saved, those two axioms, seem contradictory. So how does one interpret 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 without concluding that God does not desire all to be saved.

The only way Calvinism interpret 2 Peter and 1 Timothy is to say Peter and Paul are only talking to those already saved (elect), and walkway, but even though Paul and Peter are addressing just Christians, does not mean they are not presenting a truth about God’s Love for all people who ever lived (this is the Love we are to have for all people). Paul is definitely addressing no Christians in the context talking about praying for “all people” and including “kings and all in authority” and “one God” would include non-Christians also.

By saying God is not wanting and is not patient with the non-elect to have knowledge, be saved, repent, and not perish, means God is not “Loving” toward the lost, yet “Loving” toward other lost sinners. We are to Love everyone and I really try to Love all and desiring none to be lost, perish, not have knowledge, and not repent.

The answer to God’s selection mechanism has nothing to do with some being worthy, deserving, righteous, honorable or “better” then other people not saved. It all starts with why God made humans in the first place and man’s objective while here on earth:

There are just somethings God cannot do, since they are impossible to do, like:

Create a clone of Jesus (Jesus is not a “made” individual, but is deity which has always existed), you just cannot “make” something that has always existed. Jesus is thus perfect, where made individuals can only be made as good as any being could be made (very good by God’s standard).

We are made “very good”, so what is the really important thing we lack that keeps us from being “perfect” like Christ is perfect? This goes back to our earthly objective, what we are here on earth to try to obtain and it is nothing we can work for, deserve, earn, or payback, so it can only come to us as a pure undeserving gift, which we have to humbly accept it as pure undeserved charity.

The greatest gift God could give us is to be like He is and that is Love. God is doing and allowing everything to help us humbly accept as pure undeserved charity, His Love, so, we can Love like He Loves.

The “problem” is Godly type Love cannot be planted into a human (made instinctive to humans) since that would not be Godly type Love but a robotic type Love (a knee jerk reaction). And, Godly type Love cannot be forced on a person making them accept it, since that would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun. It would not be loving on God’s part nor would the Love we received be Godly type Love.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By accepting God’s forgiveness, we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50. Sin is made unbelievably huge so the forgiveness is unbelievably huge resulting in an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love).

The real issue is with the fact humans have a hard time humbling themselves to the point of accepting pure undeserved charity (no one likes to take charity and will do almost anything to avoid taking charity). Accepting charity is like the opposite of working to obtain something, but that is the only one way to first obtain “Love”. Those teaching God does the selection independent of any human thought, are also saying you do not have to humble accept God’s pure undeserved charity, since you got God’s charity prior to humbly accepting it.

Yes, God is wanting and is offering to everyone eternal life, which comes with accepting forgiveness and Love, but few are willing and wanting to accept this charity, so they would be unhappy in heaven where there is only Godly type Love (unselfish and unconditional type Love). God does not want unhappy people in heaven (those desiring only a carnal type Love, wanting to be “Loved” for the way they want others to perceive them to be).

The ”choice” humans make that provides God with a “reason” for some and not others is not some noble, honorable, deserving, worthy or righteous choice, but the very simple selfish choice to: be macho, hang in there, be a good soldier of satan, and being willing to take the punishment you fully deserve or wimp out, give up and surrender to your hated enemy and even though you hate this enemy just be willing for selfish reasons (sinful reasons) to humbly accept His pure undeserving charity.

As far as “faith” goes, all mature adults have been gifted by with a “natural” faith, which allows them to trust people and things and they can use it to trust in objects made with human hands. Directing this God given “faith” toward a benevolent creator allows the person to have an illogical hope that benevolent Creator might just provide them with some undeserved charity.


Much more can be said this is brief.

If Calvinism is true, there's nothing you can do to change your fate(whatever it is) anyway so why worry about it?

If Arminianism is true, you may choose to embrace the offer of salvation God has made you freely. So embrace it.

Ultimately, though, the question is far overblown and sides villified when the distance between soteriologies that fall under the Christian umbrella isn't that great and is often embellished in polemic literature. Rather than fretting over getting to the right theology, seek to find rest in Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to convict you that He died for you.

This is not a salvation issue. Both sides believe we are justified by faith, and that our ability to have faith is a result of God’s grace.

Calvinism does not lead to paralysis. Calvinists still need to follow Jesus. Coming to have faith is pretty much the same in both communities. Calvinism is really more something that applies in retrospect for people who are believers. It’s an understanding that everything you thought and did that resulted in faith was a result of God's plan to redeem us.

Calvinists think God normally works through means, so we are still called to preach and help others understand. It’s just that doing so is seen as part of God's plan.

I believe Solomon gives us the basic advice the to fear the Lord and keep His commandments ( see Ecclesiastes 12:12-14). This is what the Lord asks of us with the emphasis on love ( John 14:15-18). As the Lord said by keeping His commandments the Holy Spirit will guide us ( of course we must use our minds) as we strive to keep the commandments in this difficult world ( John 16:33). The commandments of the Lord being ( see Matthew 22:36-40, Matthew 7:12, Matthew 19:16-19, Romans 13:8-10 etc.). Our basic ways of keeping the commandments are by alms giving and prayer for ourselves and others ( Matthew 6:1-15). This is how are saved by grace, through faith to be lived out in works ( Ephesians 2:8-10).

Some sound, basic theology is helpful in that we know our God ( Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ) like in the Apostles’ Creed:

The Apostles' Creed | EWTN

I am personally neither. Both Calvin and Arminius started from assumptions that are basically Augustinian. Augustine felt that we were so corrupted by sin that we couldn’t come to faith without God regenerating us. Both sides agreed with that. But Arminius felt we could resist that and Calvin didn’t.

But there’s another assumption that both accepted, that because of original sin we start out as unacceptable to God. We have to be saved, or we’re doomed. The difference is over the exact mechanism by which God works to save us.

Jesus doesn’t seem to have assumed that. For him, God is our father. He loves us because of that. Sure, we can reject him. When people who were opposed to God’s purposes changed, Jesus said salvation had come to them. But I see no sign — at least in the Synoptics — that he thought everyone was in this position.

Calvin — and I think Arminius as well — believed that God would only accept perfection, for which he used the term righteousness. Because we are incapable of that, we are all rejects. In order to be acceptable to God, we have to have Christ’s righteousness imputed to us. I don’t think Paul says this, and I’m quite sure Jesus doesn’t. The term "righteousness” in both OT and NT means a life acceptable to God, but not perfection. Plenty of people are called righteous. It means they are followers of God, that their lives show evidence of it, but not that they are perfect. Rather, they are humble and repentant.

I think Jesus’ parental analogy changes the conversation. You don’t have to do anything (or have anything done to you) to be acceptable to your parents. You can, however, rebel. So I’m not necessarily implying universalism. The Jewish tradition, for example, would say that worshiping a false God meant you repudiated your Father. For Jesus, the main causes of rejection seemed to be abusing others (and at times, even not being useful to others — bearing fruit) and opposing the Gospel (which for him was about things like forgiveness, not holding proper doctrine).

hedrick said:

This is not a salvation issue. Both sides believe we are justified by faith, and that our ability to have faith is a result of God’s grace.

Calvinism does not lead to paralysis. Calvinists still need to follow Jesus. Coming to have faith is pretty much the same in both communities. Calvinism is really more something that applies in retrospect for people who are believers. It’s an understanding that everything you thought and did that resulted in faith was a result of God's plan to redeem us.

Calvinists think God normally works through means, so we are still called to preach and help others understand. It’s just that doing so is seen as part of God's plan.

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Yes, its seems to me that its largely a matter of perspective-over academic points. At the end of the day I think most Christians know intuitively that they're compelled and enjoined in some manner to simply act more justly, walk more humbly, be more merciful, than if they had never come to Christ.

Blaise N said:

Hi everyone

I really need questionnaire help…

*So as a pre-note it is not my intention to insult anyone on either side of the theological spectrum*

So I’m very confused on which theological side is true or right.

On one side there are Arminians calling Calvinists heretics,a false religion,and cruel

Then in the other side there are Calvinists calling Arminians Decieved,sugar coated,and heretics as well

And then there’s me,All day I’ve been anxious.I can’t tell if it’s conviction,but I’ve been convinced to repent of what I believe Calvinists call true.I have never found Calvinism or reformed theology comforting.
It’s brought me anxiety,doubts,immense fear.I’ve constantly doubted I’d God loves me,wether he wants to save me,and wether he desires to help me because of reformed theology.

But then at the same time Calvinists saying things like “my way or the highway(to hell)”
I’m just so scared,I don’t know what side is true,I don’t know what sides interpretation of scripture is correctz

Here are scriptures that trouble me:

“who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1st Timothy 2:4,where Calvinists say all means “all the elect” which always brings me anxietyand never has never brought me comfort.

and Arminians say all as in all who desire to be saved and God desires to save all but still respects free wil

and then Calvinists abiding to tulip and their acronym definition of limited atonement where it says “Christ only died for the elect”
Which has also never brought me comfort and constantly makes me doubt,though I don’t follow Calvinism,what if I’m not an elect,then “God is angry at me and doesn’t want anything to do with me”

Then the scripture that scares me the most in general and specifically today,Hebrews 6:4-6

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,” which makes me tremendously worried that “If reformed theology is false,then I’ve committed apostasy following a heresy and now I’m scared I’m condemned forever regardless that I want to repent of it and not return”and “that I should just turn away”-scary part which I’m rejecting


Please,I’m in tears right now,can someone please help explain any bigger picture to help me in understanding because I’ll accept advice no matter how small.

Click to expand...

Hi friend, I am an eternalist. Basically, texts warning about falling into sin are written from a Pastor's perspective in this limited life view. Texts related to eternal life was written from God's perspective because He is outside of time and can see all of time at once.