Children of wrath by nature vs Vessels of Wrath

Brightfame52 said:

Your position is very dishonorable to the blood of Christ. I will end it with that.

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Election has a list, a to do list, sanctification of the Spirit, ( God justified in the Spirit and Christ was delivered for our offences, have His blood which justifies us, by Him being risen.

It is unto obedience of the faith of Christ who was obedient unto death to again give that blood.

The blood of sprinkling speaks better things than Abel, and those things that are spoken by Christ guide our feet into the way of peace ( of Christ)..




Philippians 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Brightfame52 said:

People are not redeemed by Faith.

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People are created by faith, God is faith and God is love, and through love and faith ( of Christ) they were redeemed.

The blood of Christ is living, and also speaks when sprinkled, and it is those things spoken that guide our feet to the way of peace..


Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Brightfame52 said:

Reprobation, the Decree of God

Robert Purnell (1606-1666)

Reprobation is the wise, just, and absolute decree of God, passing by and leaving some men unto themselves, to suffer them to fall, and to inflict upon them eternal punishment deserved by their sins, for the praise of His unspeakable great justice (Rom 9:11, 13, 22; Jude 4; Jer 6:30).

The causes of this decree are the absolute will and good pleasure of God (Mat 11:26; Rom 9:13).

The end of this decree is not the condemnation of the creature, but the manifestation of God’s justice (Rom 9:22). Yet election and reprobation, in a sense, are not the causes of salvation and damnation: Christ is the proper and meritorious cause of salvation; sin [is] the proper and meritorious cause of damnation. Election and reprobation are but precedent43 acts or decrees, and the causes of salvation and damnation come in between the causes and the execution thereof. It is the fore appointment of certain angels and men unto everlasting dishonor: God of His own free will determining to pass them by, refuse, or cast off, and for sin to condemn and punish them with everlasting death (Pro 16:4; Exo 9:16; Rom 9:17; 2Ti 2:20; Mat 25:41).

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The wicked desire not the knowledge of Gods ways, is it not true ?


Job 21:13 They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave.
14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.
15 What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?
16 Lo, their good is not in their hand: the counsel of the wicked is far from me.



They did not like to retain God in their knowledge ( the wicked) so God gave them over to reprobate minds ( by seeking wealth and all for themselves)



Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Should look into blood a bit better.



Without shedding of blood there is no remission, and Christ gave knowledge of salvation to His people by that remission of their sins ( by the blood shed and sprinkled)

Now the blood of sprinkling speaks to guide our feet to the way of peace ( salvation)



Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

We also have to drink the blood of Christ, and eat His body, and we have to take heed how we drink.

If we drink and eat unworthily, we drink damnation, not DISCERNING.

If we DOUBT ( have faith in the blood of Christ) WE ARE DAMMED, as we eat not of FAITH....


John 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.


1 Corinthians 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.


Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

testifier_uk said:

That says about people who have a hard and unrepentant heart, but if they have repented thy have a new soft heart of flesh given..



Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

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Paul said because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart. Yes they have a hardened heart because they have hardened their heart. He also said that God’s kindness and patience is leading them to repentance but because they have hardened their heart they are storing up God’s wrath upon them on judgement day. The point is that God has enabled them to repent but they are not willing to comply.

testifier_uk said:

The Holy Spirit is the love of God, it casts out fear, otherwise they are in fear which is why they deny Christ..


Mark 14:50 And they all forsook him, and fled.
51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:
52 And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.


Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

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There are many reasons why some fall away and they’re not always due to fear. Some simply desire sin more than they desire to serve God. Even Jesus Himself experienced fear in the olive groves in Gethsemane when He was sweating blood and asked The Father to take this cup of suffering from His lips. No one is completely fearless when they receive the Holy Spirit.

testifier_uk said:

They had interest but where not His sheep as He said unto them..

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

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That was two different events.

“At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:22-23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In John 10 Jesus is in Jerusalem. The “porch of Solomon is in Jerusalem”


“That day Jesus went out of the house and was sitting by the sea.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In Matthew 13 Jesus was near the sea which the closest sea would be the Dead Sea which is 20 miles from Jerusalem.

testifier_uk said:

Jesus speaks in parables as i is the hidden mystery of God as just quoted..


1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

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Jesus specifically said “he who has ears to hear let him hear”.

“For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

testifier_uk said:

They all fled, if you call that confessing Him before men...


Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

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They didn’t all deny Christ. They fled the guards not Jesus.

testifier_uk said:

The Spirit does all things, as the flesh profits nothing.


John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

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It’s puzzling that you quoted Galatians 5:16 right after Paul said this to these very same Galatians.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Your posting a lot of scriptures out of context. Yes IF we walk in the Spirit He will guide us that doesn’t mean that everyone who has received the Holy Spirit will walk in the Spirit.

“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ephesians 4:17-32 on into Ephesians 5:1-6 is written to “the Saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ” and it’s all about not grieving the Spirit.

testifier_uk said:

Before the Spirit was given, of course they have doubts and little faith, and sink, after the Spirit all is new and all old is passed away. That is born again, the Apostles could not be born again until Christ was risen.

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They were already walking in the Spirit Jesus specifically stated that they were not of the flesh they were not of this world. A person is either of the flesh and this world or of the Spirit.

testifier_uk said:

We have faith when it is given by the Spirit and, we hear the words of Spirit and life, to have faith.

Also God gives that faith for purpose, it does not return to Him void.

But, that is why the Spirit of the fear of God is given, as it was in Christ, so we do not depart from the Lord and His ways and do not forget to have mercy and compassion.



Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

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Jesus specifically said in John 15:6 “anyone who does not abide in Me is cast away to either and cast into the fire to be burned.” He also said in John 15:2 The Father cuts off every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit. No one comes to Christ unless The Father draws Him. No one can be in Christ without faith.

BNR32FAN said:

Paul said because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart. Yes they have a hardened heart because they have hardened their heart. He also said that God’s kindness and patience is leading them to repentance but because they have hardened their heart they are storing up God’s wrath upon them on judgement day. The point is that God has enabled them to repent but they are not willing to comply.

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They are impenitent, as all are, in a hardened through sin heart ( all were sinners and thus all were hardened)

Everybody then opposes themselves ( by doing works of darkness that keep them from the light of Christ)

Now God may give them repentance and it is His decision, not theirs, and not anyone's.



2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

BNR32FAN said:

There are many reasons why some fall away and they’re not always due to fear. Some simply desire sin more than they desire to serve God. Even Jesus Himself experienced fear in the olive groves in Gethsemane when He was sweating blood and asked The Father to take this cup of suffering from His lips. No one is completely fearless when they receive the Holy Spirit.

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Jesus cast out fear, that is what perfect love of Christ does.


Who does not cast out fear is not made perfect in love, we fear God or fear man..


Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

BNR32FAN said:

That was two different events.

“At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:22-23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In John 10 Jesus is in Jerusalem. The “porch of Solomon is in Jerusalem”


“That day Jesus went out of the house and was sitting by the sea.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In Matthew 13 Jesus was near the sea which the closest sea would be the Dead Sea which is 20 miles from Jerusalem.

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There is one event to all, to be or not to be...sheep.


Here in Matthew 24 Jesus is in the temple, at Jerusalem, and is giving His parables of the kingdom, the same as the Jews who asked Him to tell them plainly, and He answered, His sheep hear and they did not hear, because they are not His sheep, and again how all are separated the sheep from the goats, the kingdom prepared for the sheep from the foundation of the world..

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?







Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:




Jesus again speaking in the mount of Olives..



John 8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.




What e see is that the Jews sought to kill Jesus because they had interest in His word, but that it had no place in them ( so they hated and killed Him without a cause)


Why can they not UNDERSTAND ?

Because Jesus had said, you are not my sheep and because they ARE OF THEIR FATHER, THE DEVIL

They cant hear Gods words by NOT BEING OF GOD..



John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

BNR32FAN said:

Jesus specifically said “he who has ears to hear let him hear”.

“For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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Deuteronomy 29:4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

BNR32FAN said:

They didn’t all deny Christ. They fled the guards not Jesus.

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Yes anyone who seeks to save their life shall lose it, we are to not love our life until death, but to stand firm in the testimony of Christ until they slayed them.

We see that way exampled in the Apostles only when they have thew Holy Spirit, bold. brave and fearless..




Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

BNR32FAN said:

It’s puzzling that you quoted Galatians 5:16 right after Paul said this to these very same Galatians.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Your posting a lot of scriptures out of context. Yes IF we walk in the Spirit He will guide us that doesn’t mean that everyone who has received the Holy Spirit will walk in the Spirit.

“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ephesians 4:17-32 on into Ephesians 5:1-6 is written to “the Saints in Ephesus who are faithful to Christ” and it’s all about not grieving the Spirit.

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Yes I quoted the difference between flesh and Spirit in all quotes.

Galatians begins with that distinction, how Christ made us free from the bondage of sin ( which has its strength in the law of sin and death)

We were only made free when Christ died in the flesh to quicken us in the Spirit.



Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;




All who receive the Spirit walk in the Spirit, nothing says otherwise anywhere.

Ephesians 4 confirms ( as does all scriptures) they the ones of the Spirit are the ones renewed in the spirit of their mind, which is the new man put on ( through the Spirit as the new man is the Lord from Heaven) Also not done for the Apostlesuntil Jesus came to them in the Spirit of truth..


Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.


John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.


1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

BNR32FAN said:

They were already walking in the Spirit Jesus specifically stated that they were not of the flesh they were not of this world. A person is either of the flesh and this world or of the Spirit.

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The Spirit needs to be put in them and then they can walk in the Spirit.

Before the Spirit of Christ was given to them( not until Christ risen and glorified) they and all had the spirit of disobedience, all were children of wrath as told..


Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.