Holy Shall You Be, for I Am Holy.

HARK! · Dec 4, 2021

(CLV) 1Pt 1:14
As obedient children, not configuring to the former desires, in your ignorance,

There is a word that we don't very often hear from the pulpit.

(CLV) 1Pt 1:15
but, according as He Who calls you is holy, you also become holy in all behavior,

Peter tells us to be holy. What does this mean?

(CLV) 1Pt 1:16
because it is written that, Holy shall you be, for I am holy.

Where is this written?

Perhaps this will give us a clue as to how to be holy through obedience.

This is the preamble to Leviticus 19.

(CLV) Lv 19:1
Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying:

(CLV) Lv 19:2
Speak to the whole congregation of the sons of Israel, and you will say to them: Holy shall you become, for I am holy, Yahweh your Elohim.

He then goes on to explain that we must fear our fathers and mothers, observe his Sabbaths, reject idols, speaks of peace sacrifices (not sin sacrifices), speaks of leaving provisions for the hungry, prohibits falsely swearing in his name, speaks of paying your workers on time and against extortion, speaks of not doing bad things to the deaf and blind, speaks of righteous judgement, speaks against defamation, speaks of not hating your brother, and admonishing companions who are sinning, not to avenge, nor be resentful, but to love your associate as yourself, to observe YHWH's statutes, and so on.

He closes this chapter with this:

(CLV) Lv 19:37
Hence you will observe all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them: I am Yahweh.

He defines it again concerning dietary laws.

(CLV) Lv 11:45
For I, Yahweh, am the One bringing you up from the land of Egypt, to be your Elohim; so you will become holy, for I am holy.

(CLV) Lv 11:46
This is the law about the beast, the flyer and every living soul moving in the water and about every soul swarming on the land,

(CLV) Lv 11:47
to differentiate between the unclean and the clean, between the animal which may be eaten and the animal which may not be eaten.

...And he repeats it in Leviticus 20:

(CLV) Lv 20:25
Hence you will make a separation between the clean beast and the unclean and between the unclean flyer and the clean; and you shall not make your souls abominable by a beast or by a flyer or by anything that moves on the ground which I have separated for you to consider it unclean.

Abominable souls...WOW!

(CLV) Lv 20:26
So you will become holy to Me, for I, Yahweh, am holy, and I am separating you from the peoples to become Mine.

Peter then goes on to say that YHWH judges impartially according to our work. He doesn't keep two sets of books.

(CLV) 1Pt 1:17
And if you are invoking the Father, Who is judging impartially according to each one's work, you may behave, for the time of your sojourn, with fear,

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

Shabbat shalom!

BobRyan · Dec 5, 2021

HARK! said:
(CLV) 1Pt 1:14
As obedient children, not configuring to the former desires, in your ignorance,

There is a word that we don't very often hear from the pulpit.

(CLV) 1Pt 1:15
but, according as He Who calls you is holy, you also become holy in all behavior,

Peter tells us to be holy. What does this mean?

(CLV) 1Pt 1:16
because it is written that, Holy shall you be, for I am holy.

Where is this written?

Perhaps this will give us a clue as to how to be holy through obedience.

This is the preamble to Leviticus 19.

(CLV) Lv 19:1
Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying:

(CLV) Lv 19:2
Speak to the whole congregation of the sons of Israel, and you will say to them: Holy shall you become, for I am holy, Yahweh your Elohim.

He then goes on to explain that we must fear our fathers and mothers, observe his Sabbaths, reject idols, speaks of peace sacrifices (not sin sacrifices), speaks of leaving provisions for the hungry, prohibits falsely swearing in his name, speaks of paying your workers on time and against extortion, speaks of not doing bad things to the deaf and blind, speaks of righteous judgement, speaks against defamation, speaks of not hating your brother, and admonishing companions who are sinning, not to avenge, nor be resentful, but to love you associate as yourself, to observe YHWH's statutes, and so on.

He closes this chapter with this:

(CLV) Lv 19:37
Hence you will observe all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them: I am Yahweh.

He defines it again concerning dietary laws.

(CLV) Lv 11:45
For I, Yahweh, am the One bringing you up from the land of Egypt, to be your Elohim; so you will become holy, for I am holy.

(CLV) Lv 11:46
This is the law about the beast, the flyer and every living soul moving in the water and about every soul swarming on the land,

(CLV) Lv 11:47
to differentiate between the unclean and the clean, between the animal which may be eaten and the animal which may not be eaten.

...And he repeats it in Leviticus 20:

(CLV) Lv 20:25
Hence you will make a separation between the clean beast and the unclean and between the unclean flyer and the clean; and you shall not make your souls abominable by a beast or by a flyer or by anything that moves on the ground which I have separated for you to consider it unclean.

Abominable souls...WOW!

(CLV) Lv 20:26
So you will become holy to Me, for I, Yahweh, am holy, and I am separating you from the peoples to become Mine.

Peter then goes on to say that YHWH judges impartially according to our work. He doesn't keep two sets of books.

(CLV) 1Pt 1:17
And if you are invoking the Father, Who is judging impartially according to each one's work, you may behave, for the time of your sojourn, with fear,

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

Shabbat shalom!

That post makes a very good case for obedience instead of rebellion against God. I think scripture is pretty consistent on that message as we see in Romans 2.

HARK! · Dec 5, 2021

BobRyan said:
That post makes a very good case for obedience instead of rebellion against God. I think scripture is pretty consistent on that message as we see in Romans 2.

Yes, YHWH is impartial. Our great, great, Grand Daddy is not so much what he is concerned with; as he is with those who show their faith in him, through obedience to his instructions.

Acts29 · Dec 9, 2021

HARK! said:
(CLV) 1Pt 1:14
As obedient children, not configuring to the former desires, in your ignorance,

There is a word that we don't very often hear from the pulpit.

(CLV) 1Pt 1:15
but, according as He Who calls you is holy, you also become holy in all behavior,

Peter tells us to be holy. What does this mean?

(CLV) 1Pt 1:16
because it is written that, Holy shall you be, for I am holy.

Where is this written?

Perhaps this will give us a clue as to how to be holy through obedience.

This is the preamble to Leviticus 19.

(CLV) Lv 19:1
Yahweh spoke to Moses, saying:

(CLV) Lv 19:2
Speak to the whole congregation of the sons of Israel, and you will say to them: Holy shall you become, for I am holy, Yahweh your Elohim.

He then goes on to explain that we must fear our fathers and mothers, observe his Sabbaths, reject idols, speaks of peace sacrifices (not sin sacrifices), speaks of leaving provisions for the hungry, prohibits falsely swearing in his name, speaks of paying your workers on time and against extortion, speaks of not doing bad things to the deaf and blind, speaks of righteous judgement, speaks against defamation, speaks of not hating your brother, and admonishing companions who are sinning, not to avenge, nor be resentful, but to love your associate as yourself, to observe YHWH's statutes, and so on.

He closes this chapter with this:

(CLV) Lv 19:37
Hence you will observe all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them: I am Yahweh.

He defines it again concerning dietary laws.

(CLV) Lv 11:45
For I, Yahweh, am the One bringing you up from the land of Egypt, to be your Elohim; so you will become holy, for I am holy.

(CLV) Lv 11:46
This is the law about the beast, the flyer and every living soul moving in the water and about every soul swarming on the land,

(CLV) Lv 11:47
to differentiate between the unclean and the clean, between the animal which may be eaten and the animal which may not be eaten.

...And he repeats it in Leviticus 20:

(CLV) Lv 20:25
Hence you will make a separation between the clean beast and the unclean and between the unclean flyer and the clean; and you shall not make your souls abominable by a beast or by a flyer or by anything that moves on the ground which I have separated for you to consider it unclean.

Abominable souls...WOW!

(CLV) Lv 20:26
So you will become holy to Me, for I, Yahweh, am holy, and I am separating you from the peoples to become Mine.

Peter then goes on to say that YHWH judges impartially according to our work. He doesn't keep two sets of books.

(CLV) 1Pt 1:17
And if you are invoking the Father, Who is judging impartially according to each one's work, you may behave, for the time of your sojourn, with fear,

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

Shabbat shalom!

Your whole post is good, and I agree across the board with the points you are making.

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but I'd like to address the "dietary laws." As I understand it, the eating of the clean and unclean animals in the law have nothing at all to do with food. The clean and unclean animals are people. To start:

Genesis 9:1 So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Are the children of Israel among the sons of Noah? Yes. God gave all things for food, except blood. God's declaration/promise was not overthrown by Moses. Once God made a promise, that is it. Therefore, the clean and unclean animals in the law MUST be about something else. A mystery.

Mark 7:18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”

Jesus expected them to know the law, which is about matters of the heart. External things like food have no effect on the heart. Jesus is the one who gave the law to Moses, so I'm confident He understood it.

John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

Eating/drinking blood was forbidden back in Genesis. Therefore, Jesus' statement must be symbolic.

Acts 10:11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

17 Now while Peter wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant, behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate

Peter had a vision of unclean animals and was told to eat. While wondering what it meant reps of Cornelius arrived. The vision meant it was time to take the gospel to the unclean animals, the gentiles. It was never about food.

Epistle of Barnabas 10:1 Now, in that Moses said, "Ye shall not eat swine, nor an eagle, nor a hawk, nor a crow, nor any fish which has no scales on itself," he included three doctrines in his understanding.
2 Moreover he says to them in Deuteronomy, "And I will make a covenant of my ordinances with this people." So then the ordinance of God is not abstinence from eating, but Moses spoke in the spirit.
3 He mentioned the swine for this reason: you shall not consort, he means, with men who are like swine, that is to say, when they have plenty they forget the Lord, but when they are in want they recognise the Lord, just as the swine when it eats does not know its master, but when it is hungry it cries out, and after receiving food is again silent.
4 "Neither shalt thou eat the eagle nor the hawk nor the kite nor the crow." Thou shalt not, he means, join thyself or make thyself like to such men, as do not know how to gain their food by their labour and sweat, but plunder other people's property in their iniquity, and lay wait for it, though they seem to walk in innocence, and look round to see whom they may plunder in their covetousness, just as these birds alone provide no food for themselves, but sit idle, and seek how they may devour the flesh of others, and become pestilent in their iniquity.
5 "Thou shalt not eat," he says, "the lamprey nor the polypus nor the cuttlefish." Thou shalt not, he means, consort with or become like such men who are utterly ungodly and who are already condemned to death, just as these fish alone are accursed, and float in the deep water, not swimming like the others but living on the ground at the bottom of the sea.

This is an early Christian writing that explains what the unclean animals are really about. (The text is longer but I clipped it short. I'm sure you can find it if you want to read further.) In ancient times just about everyone was a farmer to some degree. Everyone would be familiar with the way animals behaved in regard to their master. The lamb is clean because it obeys the shepherd. The locust is clean because it is drawn to light. Etc. Thus, be like them. The eating of the clean and unclean animals is about how to walk with God, obey Him, and how not to. The words are spirit and life, not about food.

Anyway, this was a long post and you may, or may not, agree. I just wanted to share what I believe.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

HARK! · Dec 11, 2021

Acts29 said:
Your whole post is good, and I agree across the board with the points you are making.

I hope this isn't too far off topic, but I'd like to address the "dietary laws." As I understand it, the eating of the clean and unclean animals in the law have nothing at all to do with food. The clean and unclean animals are people. To start:

This is certainly relevant to the topic.

Acts29 said:
Genesis 9:1 So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.

Are the children of Israel among the sons of Noah? Yes. God gave all things for food, except blood. God's declaration/promise was not overthrown by Moses. Once

God made a promise, that is it. Therefore, the clean and unclean animals in the law MUST be about something else. A mystery.

We need to be careful not to rely on the biases of the translators.

Noah already knew the difference between the clean and the unclean animals, before they entered the ark.

YHWH's word doesn't change. YHWH didn't give every moving thing for food; so what did he give?

רמש

What does this word mean?

(CLV) Gn 1:24
And Elohim said: Let the earth bring forth the living soul, each according to its kind: domestic beast, creeper (רמש) and land animal, each according to its kind. And it came to be so.

If it meant every animal; why does YHWH make a distinction from the very beginning?

Acts29 said:
Mark 7:18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”

Jesus expected them to know the law, which is about matters of the heart. External things like food have no effect on the heart. Jesus is the one who gave the law to Moses, so I'm confident He understood it.

This passage has nothing to do with eating unclean animals. That would be a clear violation of YHWH's word. The Pharisees would have loved to have had an opportunity to catch Yahshua sinning. That didn't happen. This is regarding a man made rule about eating bread before washing one's hands. The external things that are being spoken of here is hand dirt.

Acts29 said:
John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

Eating/drinking blood was forbidden back in Genesis. Therefore, Jesus' statement must be symbolic.

Indeed!

(CLV) Dt 8:3
So He made you humble and let you hunger; then He fed you with the manna which neither you had known, nor had your fathers known, that He might make you realize that not on bread it alone shall the human live, for by every utterance from the mouth of Yahweh shall the human live.

Yahshua, was YHWH's word made flesh.

Acts29 said:
Acts 10:11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” 14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

17 Now while Peter wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant, behold, the men who had been sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon’s house, and stood before the gate

Peter had a vision of unclean animals and was told to eat. While wondering what it meant reps of Cornelius arrived. The vision meant it was time to take the gospel to the unclean animals, the gentiles. It was never about food.

Peter did not defile himself with unclean animals.

He explained what this vision meant.

(CLV) Ac 10:28
Besides, he averred to them, "You are versed in the fact how illicit it is for a man who is a Jew to join or come to another tribe, and God shows me not to say that any man is contaminating or unclean.

Those who use this passage as an excuse to violate YHWH's instructions, somehow miss this part.

Acts29 said:
Epistle of Barnabas 10:1 Now, in that Moses said, "Ye shall not eat swine, nor an eagle, nor a hawk, nor a crow, nor any fish which has no scales on itself," he included three doctrines in his understanding.
2 Moreover he says to them in Deuteronomy, "And I will make a covenant of my ordinances with this people." So then the ordinance of God is not abstinence from eating, but Moses spoke in the spirit.
3 He mentioned the swine for this reason: you shall not consort, he means, with men who are like swine, that is to say, when they have plenty they forget the Lord, but when they are in want they recognise the Lord, just as the swine when it eats does not know its master, but when it is hungry it cries out, and after receiving food is again silent.
4 "Neither shalt thou eat the eagle nor the hawk nor the kite nor the crow." Thou shalt not, he means, join thyself or make thyself like to such men, as do not know how to gain their food by their labour and sweat, but plunder other people's property in their iniquity, and lay wait for it, though they seem to walk in innocence, and look round to see whom they may plunder in their covetousness, just as these birds alone provide no food for themselves, but sit idle, and seek how they may devour the flesh of others, and become pestilent in their iniquity.
5 "Thou shalt not eat," he says, "the lamprey nor the polypus nor the cuttlefish." Thou shalt not, he means, consort with or become like such men who are utterly ungodly and who are already condemned to death, just as these fish alone are accursed, and float in the deep water, not swimming like the others but living on the ground at the bottom of the sea.

This is an early Christian writing that explains what the unclean animals are really about. (The text is longer but I clipped it short. I'm sure you can find it if you want to read further.) In ancient times just about everyone was a farmer to some degree. Everyone would be familiar with the way animals behaved in regard to their master. The lamb is clean because it obeys the shepherd. The locust is clean because it is drawn to light. Etc. Thus, be like them. The eating of the clean and unclean animals is about how to walk with God, obey Him, and how not to. The words are spirit and life, not about food.

Anyway, this was a long post and you may, or may not, agree. I just wanted to share what I believe.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

I've read the Epistle of Barnabus before.

Some don't accept it. I'll respond with what widely accepted scripture tells us about what the future holds.

(CLV) Isa 66:15
For behold, Yahweh, with fire shall He come, And His chariots like a sweeping whirlwind, To bring back His anger with fury, And His rebuke with blazes of fire.

(CLV) Isa 66:16
For with fire Yahweh shall come to judge, And with His sword upon all flesh; And Yahweh's slain will be multitudinous.

(CLV) Isa 66:17
Those who sanctify themselves And who cleansed themselves for the gardens, going after one in their midst, Eating the flesh of swine and the abominable thing and the rodent, They shall be swept up together, averring is Yahweh;

Shabbat shalom.

Acts29 · Dec 11, 2021

HARK! said:
We need to be careful not to rely on the biases of the translators.

Noah already knew the difference between the clean and the unclean animals, before they entered the ark.

YHWH's word doesn't change. YHWH didn't give every moving thing for food; so what did he give?

רמש

What does this word mean?

(CLV) Gn 1:24
And Elohim said: Let the earth bring forth the living soul, each according to its kind: domestic beast, creeper (רמש) and land animal, each according to its kind. And it came to be so.

If it meant every animal; why does YHWH make a distinction from the very beginning?

Describing different kinds of animals at creation has no relation to the promise to Noah and his sons concerning food. I understand the many centuries of tradition assuming food has anything to do with righteousness. I, myself, am of Israel, tribe of Levi, house of Aaron. My family has been believers as far back as I can know. I also understand, to accept the fact that the clean and unclean animals have nothing to do with food, is a nearly impossible thing to swallow. The traditions have been around a long time. However, most traditions reject Jesus also so length of time doesn't make them right. (Also, I am not trying to change your mind. Who am I? Simply conversing.)

HARK! said:
This passage has nothing to do with eating unclean animals. That would be a clear violation of YHWH's word. The Pharisees would have loved to have had an opportunity to catch Yahshua sinning. That didn't happen. This is regarding a man made rule about eating bread before washing one's hands. The external things that are being spoken of here is hand dirt.

I do recognize the context of the situation beginning with hand dirt. However, Jesus' statement was much broader.

So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him,
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him

The Greek uses the combination of "no" and "everything" which essentially means "nothing." Whatever, whatsoever thing, nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him. The context was about eating. Surely, Jesus understood what He said. The statement isn't limited or qualified by anything. In fact, Jesus made sure they knew He was including all food.

Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?” 20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.”

HARK! said:
Peter did not defile himself with unclean animals.

He explained what this vision meant.

(CLV) Ac 10:28
Besides, he averred to them, "You are versed in the fact how illicit it is for a man who is a Jew to join or come to another tribe, and God shows me not to say that any man is contaminating or unclean.

Those who use this passage as an excuse to violate YHWH's instructions, somehow miss this part.

Does that mean you think it was just a coincidence that God showed Peter the unclean animals and said "Eat" at the very moment he was being summoned to lead the very first gentile convert? You are actually making my point for me. God showed Peter unclean animals. Peter correctly understood that the vision was about man, not food! If God used unclean animals to symbolically speak about people in Acts, why do you think the very same was not also meant in Moses?

14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”

What does this mean to you? Did God delete all the dietary laws of Moses here? What did God cleanse exactly?

HARK! said:
(CLV) Isa 66:15
For behold, Yahweh, with fire shall He come, And His chariots like a sweeping whirlwind, To bring back His anger with fury, And His rebuke with blazes of fire.

(CLV) Isa 66:16
For with fire Yahweh shall come to judge, And with His sword upon all flesh; And Yahweh's slain will be multitudinous.

(CLV) Isa 66:17
Those who sanctify themselves And who cleansed themselves for the gardens, going after one in their midst, Eating the flesh of swine and the abominable thing and the rodent, They shall be swept up together, averring is Yahweh;

Shabbat shalom.

Yes, absolutely. Still not about food. It is about people.
Take Elijah being feed by ravens twice a day. He wasn't fed by unclean birds, but unclean people. Ravens do not labor for what they eat. They simply steal from another's labor. The ravens are bureaucrats. Obediah, working for the king, fed the prophets hidden in caves. Other bureaucrats fed Elijah. It is all about people.

The law and prophets teach about righteousness, the ways of God. Faith is accounted as righteousness. Doing what God said in obedience is righteousness. What does food have to do with righteousness?

I am as much a "literal interpretation" person as any. Words of spirit are exceptions. I realize it is not easy to accept that a thing that appears one way is actually another thing entirely.
Anyway, if I have planted any seed that strikes at your spirit at all, ask God to give you a dream about this. He will. I'm serious. He will. Right now, many many people around the world are having dreams from God. The days of Joel are coming soon.

Acts29 · Dec 11, 2021

More examples of animals referring to people in scripture.

Deuteronomy 25:4 “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.

This means, do not silence God's workers. Treading out the grain is about doing the first teaching to the people, separating the grain from the straw. Jesus, Himself, has the winnowing fan to do the fine separation of the grain that has already been separated.

Exodus 23:19 ... You shall not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.

This means, do not persecute the righteous by calling good evil and evil good. Goats are clean. Its mothers milk is the righteousness that comes from God as food to the soul. Those who take what is good and make it evil so as to persecute the righteous are boiling a young goat in its mothers milk. This is not about meat and cheese!

HARK! · Dec 11, 2021

Acts29 said:
Describing different kinds of animals at creation has no relation to the promise to Noah and his sons concerning food. I understand the many centuries of tradition assuming food has anything to do with righteousness. I, myself, am of Israel, tribe of Levi, house of Aaron. My family has been believers as far back as I can know. I also understand, to accept the fact that the clean and unclean animals have nothing to do with food, is a nearly impossible thing to swallow. The traditions have been around a long time. However, most traditions reject Jesus also so length of time doesn't make them right. (Also, I am not trying to change your mind. Who am I? Simply conversing.)

I appreciate the conversation; although I wasn't presenting an argument, so much as I was presenting a question.

It seems that you are missing my point.

Acts29 said:
3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.

(CLV) Gn 9:3
Every moving (רמש) animal that s is alive, shall be yours for food; as with the green herbage, I give to you everything.

I'm using a "literal" translation. The word (רמש) was translated as "moving" and the word animal was added in this translation. It is being translated into general terms, to include every moving animal.

I will now continue to compare every other verse in the TaNaK, where this word can be found

(CLV) Gn 1:24
And Elohim said: Let the earth bring forth the living soul, each according to its kind: domestic beast, creeper (רמש) and land animal, each according to its kind. And it came to be so.

Here the same word is being used to make a distinction (for obvious reasons) between the "creeper" (whatever that is) and every other land animal. I suppose that birds and fish don't creep; but this is just a wild guess on my part; but I'm not convinced that "creeper" is the correct definition. I feel confident that the (רמש) is not a domestic animal.

(CLV) Gn 1:25
Elohim made the land animal according to its kind, the domestic beast according to its kind, and every creeper (רמש) of the ground according to its kind. And Elohim saw that it was good.

YHWH repeats that distinction here.

(CLV) Gn 1:26
And Elohim said: Let Us make humanity in Our image and according to Our likeness. Let them hold sway over the fish of the sea and over the flyer of the heavens, over the domestic beast, over every land animal and over every creeper (רמש) that is creeping on the earth.

Here YHWH makes a distinction between the (רמש) and every other land animal, and fish, and birds.

(CLV) Gn 6:7
So Yahweh said: I shall wipe out humanity that I have created, off the surface of the ground, from human unto beast, unto the creeper (רמש) and unto the flyer of the heavens; for I regret that I have made them.

Here YHWH makes a distinction between a beast, a (רמש), and a bird. From this I would gather that a (רמש) is neither a beast, nor a bird.

(CLV) Gn 6:20
Of the flyer according to its kind, of the beast according to its kind, and of every creeper (רמש) of the ground according to its kind, from all shall they come in pairs to you to stay alive.

YHWH repeats the distinction between birds, beasts, and every (רמש) here.

(CLV) Gn 7:14
they and every wild animal according to its kind, and every domestic beast according to its kind, and every creeper (רמש) that was creeping (רמש) on the earth according to its kind, and every flyer according to its kind, every bird, every winged thing.

Here YHWH draws a distinction between every wild animal, every domestic beast, every bird, and every (רמש).

From this I would gather that a (רמש) is not a wild animal, nor a domesticated beast, nor a bird of any kind.

(CLV) Gn 7:23
Thus He had wiped out everyone who had risen on the surface of the ground, from human unto domestic beast, unto the creeper (רמש) and unto the flyer of the heavens; they were wiped off the earth; only Noah remained and those with him in the ark.

Here we see yet another distinction between the (רמש), domestic beasts, and birds.

(CLV) Gn 8:17
Every wild animal that is with you, some of all flesh among the flyer and the domestic beast, also every creeper (רמש) that is creeping (רמש) on the earth, bring them forth with you, so they can swarm in the earth and be fruitful and increase on the earth.

Here we see yet another distinction between every wild animal, every bird, every domesticated beast, and every (רמש).

(CLV) Gn 8:19
Every wild animal, every creeper (רמש) and every flyer, everything moving on the earth, they came forth from the ark by their families.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

(CLV) 1Ki 4:33
He spoke about the trees, from the cedar of the Lebanon unto the hyssop which is coming forth in the sidewall. He spoke about the beast and on the flyer, about the reptile (רמש) and on the fish.

Here this translator rendered (רמש) as "reptile"

Why the change? Are not crocodiles wild animals? Maybe something was lost in the translation. I know that I was.

The CLV prides itself for translating the same word, the same way, throughout their translation.

They failed to meet their own standard.

(CLV) Ps 104:25
This sea, great and wide on all hands; The creeper (רמש) is there, and it is numberless, Animals, both small and great;

So there are (רמש) in the sea too? Here David draws a distinction between the (רמש) and animals.

(CLV) Ps 148:10
Wild animal and every domestic beast, Reptile (רמש) and winged bird,

Here the CLV translates (רמש) as "reptile" again; yet David draws a distinction between the (רמש) and wild animals.

(CLV) Ezk 8:10
So I entered and saw, and behold, every style of reptile (רמש) and abominable beast, and all the idol clods of the house of Israel were delineated on the sidewall all around.

Another distinction between the beast and the (רמש).

(CLV) Ezk 38:20
The fish of the sea, the flyer of the heavens, the wild animal of the field, every creeping (רמש) thing that moves about on the ground and every human who is on the surface of the ground will quake before Me; the mountains will be demolished, the cliffs will fall, and every wall shall fall to the earth.

Here the (רמש) moves on the ground. David mentioned that they are in the sea. So from this I can derive that the (רמש) lives both on land, and in the sea. It would seem that they don't fly.

(CLV) Ho 2:18
I will contract for them a covenant in that day with the animal of the field, And with the fowl of the heavens, And the reptile (רמש) of the ground. I shall also banish bow and sword and battle weapon from the earth, And I will cause them to lie down in serenity.

Here again we see the (רמש) on the ground; but it is not an animal of the field.

I suppose that is limited to creeping.

(CLV) Hab 1:14
You are making humanity like the fish of the sea, Like the moving (רמש) creature with not ruler over it.

Here Habakkuk seems to be using the (רמש) to express a multitude. Reptiles generally aren't known for moving in swarms.

So I ask again:

HARK! said:
רמש

What does this word mean?

Here is what I get with Google translate:

Acts29 · Dec 11, 2021

HARK! said:
I appreciate the conversation; although I wasn't presenting an argument, so much as I was presenting a question.

It seems that you are missing my point.

(CLV) Gn 9:3
Every moving (רמש) animal that s is alive, shall be yours for food; as with the green herbage, I give to you everything.

I'm using a "literal" translation. The word (רמש) was translated as "moving" and the word animal was added in this translation. It is being translated into general terms, to include every moving animal.

I will now continue to compare every other verse in the TaNaK, where this word can be found

(CLV) Gn 1:24
And Elohim said: Let the earth bring forth the living soul, each according to its kind: domestic beast, creeper (רמש) and land animal, each according to its kind. And it came to be so.

Here the same word is being used to make a distinction (for obvious reasons) between the "creeper" (whatever that is) and every other land animal. I suppose that birds and fish don't creep; but this is just a wild guess on my part; but I'm not convinced that "creeper" is the correct definition. I feel confident that the (רמש) is not a domestic animal.

(CLV) Gn 1:25
Elohim made the land animal according to its kind, the domestic beast according to its kind, and every creeper (רמש) of the ground according to its kind. And Elohim saw that it was good.

YHWH repeats that distinction here.

(CLV) Gn 1:26
And Elohim said: Let Us make humanity in Our image and according to Our likeness. Let them hold sway over the fish of the sea and over the flyer of the heavens, over the domestic beast, over every land animal and over every creeper (רמש) that is creeping on the earth.

Here YHWH makes a distinction between the (רמש) and every other land animal, and fish, and birds.

(CLV) Gn 6:7
So Yahweh said: I shall wipe out humanity that I have created, off the surface of the ground, from human unto beast, unto the creeper (רמש) and unto the flyer of the heavens; for I regret that I have made them.

Here YHWH makes a distinction between a beast, a (רמש), and a bird. From this I would gather that a (רמש) is neither a beast, nor a bird.

(CLV) Gn 6:20
Of the flyer according to its kind, of the beast according to its kind, and of every creeper (רמש) of the ground according to its kind, from all shall they come in pairs to you to stay alive.

YHWH repeats the distinction between birds, beasts, and every (רמש) here.

(CLV) Gn 7:14
they and every wild animal according to its kind, and every domestic beast according to its kind, and every creeper (רמש) that was creeping (רמש) on the earth according to its kind, and every flyer according to its kind, every bird, every winged thing.

Here YHWH draws a distinction between every wild animal, every domestic beast, every bird, and every (רמש).

From this I would gather that a (רמש) is not a wild animal, nor a domesticated beast, nor a bird of any kind.

(CLV) Gn 7:23
Thus He had wiped out everyone who had risen on the surface of the ground, from human unto domestic beast, unto the creeper (רמש) and unto the flyer of the heavens; they were wiped off the earth; only Noah remained and those with him in the ark.

Here we see yet another distinction between the (רמש), domestic beasts, and birds.

(CLV) Gn 8:17
Every wild animal that is with you, some of all flesh among the flyer and the domestic beast, also every creeper (רמש) that is creeping (רמש) on the earth, bring them forth with you, so they can swarm in the earth and be fruitful and increase on the earth.

Here we see yet another distinction between every wild animal, every bird, every domesticated beast, and every (רמש).

(CLV) Gn 8:19
Every wild animal, every creeper (רמש) and every flyer, everything moving on the earth, they came forth from the ark by their families.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

(CLV) 1Ki 4:33
He spoke about the trees, from the cedar of the Lebanon unto the hyssop which is coming forth in the sidewall. He spoke about the beast and on the flyer, about the reptile (רמש) and on the fish.

Here this translator rendered (רמש) as "reptile"

Why the change? Are not crocodiles wild animals? Maybe something was lost in the translation. I know that I was.

The CLV prides itself for translating the same word, the same way, throughout their translation.

They failed to meet their own standard.

(CLV) Ps 104:25
This sea, great and wide on all hands; The creeper (רמש) is there, and it is numberless, Animals, both small and great;

So there are (רמש) in the sea too? Here David draws a distinction between the (רמש) and animals.

(CLV) Ps 148:10
Wild animal and every domestic beast, Reptile (רמש) and winged bird,

Here the CLV translates (רמש) as "reptile" again; yet David draws a distinction between the (רמש) and wild animals.

(CLV) Ezk 8:10
So I entered and saw, and behold, every style of reptile (רמש) and abominable beast, and all the idol clods of the house of Israel were delineated on the sidewall all around.

Another distinction between the beast and the (רמש).

(CLV) Ezk 38:20
The fish of the sea, the flyer of the heavens, the wild animal of the field, every creeping (רמש) thing that moves about on the ground and every human who is on the surface of the ground will quake before Me; the mountains will be demolished, the cliffs will fall, and every wall shall fall to the earth.

Here the (רמש) moves on the ground. David mentioned that they are in the sea. So from this I can derive that the (רמש) lives both on land, and in the sea. It would seem that they don't fly.

(CLV) Ho 2:18
I will contract for them a covenant in that day with the animal of the field, And with the fowl of the heavens, And the reptile (רמש) of the ground. I shall also banish bow and sword and battle weapon from the earth, And I will cause them to lie down in serenity.

Here again we see the (רמש) on the ground; but it is not an animal of the field.

I suppose that is limited to creeping.

(CLV) Hab 1:14
You are making humanity like the fish of the sea, Like the moving (רמש) creature with not ruler over it.

Here Habakkuk seems to be using the (רמש) to express a multitude. Reptiles generally aren't known for moving in swarms.

So I ask again:

Here is what I get with Google translate:

View attachment 309325

I do see the distinctions, but they are distinctions without a real difference given the context. The current Hebrew manuscripts are not the only time this promise to Noah and his sons is recorded.

(CLV) Gn 9:3
Every moving (רמש) animal that s is alive, shall be yours for food; as with the green herbage, I give to you everything.

9:3 LXX And every reptile which is living shall be to you for meat, I have given all things to you as the green herbs.

Jubilees 6:6 And behold I have given unto you all beasts, and all winged things, and everything that moves on the earth, and the fish in the waters, and all things for food; as the green herbs, I have given you all things to eat.

Josephus Book 1 Chapter 3 section 8: However, I require you to abstain from shedding the blood of men, and to keep yourselves pure from murder; and to punish those that commit any such thing. I permit you to make use of all the other living creatures at your pleasure, and as your appetites lead you; for I have made you lords of them all, both of those that walk on the land, and those that swim in the waters, and of those that fly in the regions of the air on high, excepting their blood, for therein is the life.

In your own version above, why did God say "I give to you everything" if He was only talking about bugs, or a very limited selection of animals? Who eats bugs? Looking at all four accounts, it seems rather obvious what God intended. All things were given for food. Does this answer your question?

Search

Search

Holy Shall You Be, for I Am Holy.

HARK!

שמע

More options

BobRyan

Junior Member

More options

HARK!

שמע

More options

Acts29

Active Member

More options

HARK!

שמע

More options

Acts29

Active Member

More options

Acts29

Active Member

More options

HARK!

שמע

More options

Acts29

Active Member

More options

Similar threads