Mass Formation Pyschosis and Moral Decay

I don't think I've ever read a sadder more incoherent pile of nonsense.

Also, why did you tack "moral decay" on the end of the thread title?

That's an interesting hypothesis. What I don't like is how using the notion of hypnosis can make it seem like those under hypnosis aren't responsible for their participation. Even if we buy into some group narrative/formation to avoid our daily troubles, it doesn't absolve us of culpability when we perpetuate the recipe that ends in totalitarianism. Still, it is super strange how people get caught up in these narratives and then just give themselves over to it.

"And all the people answered and said, 'His blood be on us and on our children.'" (Matthew 27:25)

So, yes humans are capable of this.

Rachel20 said:

An example would be if you believe murder is wrong, but go along with the group that it's ok

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Nobody thinks murder is ok. Murder implies a judgment has been made: "That killing was wrong; we'll convict the perpetrator of murder".

Everyone thinks that some level of killing is necessary. E.g., capital punishment, eating meat, bombing people who fly planes into building or even eating carrots, potatoes, and peanuts. (And no, I did NOT say everyone agrees with all of these. I'm saying that as far as I know everyone agrees with at least one of these or equivocates on the word "killing".)

Rachel20 said:

I'm defining "moral decay" as the relinquishing of own's own morals & principles (for whatever reason).

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And I would say if a person can let go of one's values which are good, this would be because the person has the character to do this. The character was not committed to those values, maybe you could say.

Years ago, I had religious values which I had been taught in order to get to Heaven. But my character and values for loving were horrible; I could practice Ten Commandments, supposedly, but also I could look down on a woman not so beautiful and favor a woman who looked quite attractive. So I was clueless when it came to love; I did not have character for loving. And my faulty character made me so I could fool myself in how I evaluated companionship. So, putting this together with what we are talking about > when ones let go of good values and go along with wrong people, their character is already there in them, to have them able to do this, I would say. They could be religious, respectable, but turn against God, like all those Jewish mommies and daddies who cried for Jesus Christ's blood to be on them and on their children. We need how God changes our character so we are not so ready to be available to Satan.

public hermit said:

What I don't like is how using the notion of hypnosis can make it seem like those under hypnosis aren't responsible for their participation.

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Ok . . . years ago, in college, I think . . . I was told that a person under hypnosis can not be brought to do something which is against the person's conscience.

Rachel20 said:

Although Dr Desmet seems to treat it as a real mental illness, I'm not sure there's no self-control still involved (and therefore culpability).

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Like what I offer about hypnosis > even if a person is sick, the person's real character can come out. So . . . offering this as my opinion > if a mental illness is truly a medical problem, it is only a physical problem; and our character is spiritual . . . not what a physical thing can control.

But our spiritual character can come out reacting to what is going on in our bodies. We might cooperate with the physical problem, if our character is ok with how we react.

Now, in the case of Germans doing what they did to Jews, those doing that had the character to be ok with hating and killing Jews. But Jesus commands us to love even our enemies. And ones hated and killed Native Americans, fighting to take lands from sovereign Native Nations . . . even though God's word commands us not to covet what belongs to our neighbor.

But the character can be there, hidden even from the view of the person. I doubt those Jews grew up meditating on how they were going to curse themselves and their own children with the shed blood of Jesus. But they had the character making them able to be so deceived and to so hate.

A character problem, then, is not a physical brain medical problem; character is spiritual, deeper than our physical bodies with our physical brains. And only God is able to truly change our character > if I can give in to lust or hate or bitterness or other anti-love things, then, I do not need to put some "mental illness" euphemism label on a sin problem; I need to seek our Father for how He alone is able to correct us > Hebrews 12:4-14.

I think of this > conceit can make us able to look down on and even be willing to kill someone else. Ones could feel superior to Jesus; so they could feel ok with killing even Jesus. Certain Americans felt Indians were inferior and so it was ok to kill their mothers and children, even, in order to conquer their lands. And, of course, only certain Germans felt they were too good for the Jews and that they were fine to kill them.

Conceit is anti-love, then, and can change a person to become an active murderer.

And, of course, a person's mind can get very messed up, in the process of conceit, so the person can then have medical problems of various sorts. I think various mainstream medical people understand how spiritual problems can have medical effects. For only one example, if a person gives in to stress, stress can mess with a person's immune system.

But Jesus gives us "rest for your souls", we have in Matthew 11:28-30. And this rest against stress is spiritual. And fear and worry are spiritual problems which can have emotional and medical effects; but God's love is almighty against fear > 1 John 4:18.

But, now that I think of it . . . conceit can have a lot to do with how people can become against each other and not have loving prayer of hope for each other > love "hopes all things," we have in 1 Corinthians 13:7. And this love cures our character so we are mentally sound with love for any and all people > 2 Timothy 1:7.

com7fy8 said:

Ok . . . years ago, in college, I think . . . I was told that a person under hypnosis can not be brought to do something which is against the person's conscience

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That could be. What I know of hypnosis is what I've seen on TV or movies, so I really don't know. It always seems like those under hypnosis are effectively controlled by the hypnotist.

A quick search brought up this guy, who seems to be a hypnotist/entertainer. He claims it's a collaborative effort. If that's the case, which I have no idea one way or the other, then my concerns about culpability probably aren't on target.

Is Hypnosis Mind Control? Brainwashing? The "Secret" Revealed...

Edit: This link is better, and also says it's not mind control.

I think the OP hypothesis is more about suggestions or narratives that 1) make sense of current states of affairs with very general claims, and 2) provide a focus besides the struggles of everyday life. It's certainly not hypnosis in a strict sense, so maybe the term is being used in a very loose sense

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...-trance/201509/is-total-mind-control-possible

Rachel20 said:

I don't understand why you're not still on target? If it's a collaborative effort, then there's a willingness there

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I think my main concern was framing the phenomenon in such a way that could seem to absolve individuals of culpability. Take this line from the first link:

These hypnotized by this process are unable to recognize the lies and misrepresentations they are being bombarded with on a daily basis, and actively attack anyone who has the temerity to share information with them which contradicts the propaganda that they have come to embrace

If I am unable to recognize the lies and misrepresentations I'm bombarded with, am I culpable for reacting as if they are true?

If we take your example of the drug addict, there is a moment when she knows her choice to use the 1st time could lead down a nasty road. Maybe she doesn't know it by experience, but she knows from the plethora of examples out there that it often turns out bad. So, she goes forward with some culpability in so far as she knows that much.

How might that play out for someone buying into propaganda? I think we have a constant responsibility to be critical. I worry (only slightly) that a hypothesis such as this one, mass hypnosis, doesn't take into account the fact we should always come to truth claims with some tendency to consider them critically. If I've been hypnotized by large narratives, I've essentially gotten lazy in my duty to secure some sense of truth as far as I am able. That's really what amazes me. People lay down and accept narratives mostly, I think, because they meet some need not necessarily related to truth, which is a point where I agree with the article.

Rachel20 said:

I also related in spiritual terms when I watched his interview. One of the 4 preconditions was a type of despair over the meaninglessness of ones life. It's hard to see a Christian having this problem since the way gives us meaning. But for those that don't know the Lord, I would think it would be like the "stones of emptiness" spoken in scripture. Then there's the idea of God bringing delusion on those that reject the love of the truth, etc... What would that kind of mass delusion look like? Probably like the one Desmet is describing (imo)

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Paul had a lot to say about delusion.

Who is the liar? John explains.


If Satan is the father of lies, then we have to go back to the very first lie ever told to see what the lie is.

In this one act, he became the father of lies, and a murderer from the beginning, because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

The lie perpetuates through sin. Take a look at Revelation 22.


Paul goes into detail about who God sends delusion to in Romans 1.

How does the above tie in with Mass Formation Psychosis and Moral Decay?

If Satan is the father of lies, it stands to reason that he is behind the perpetual spreading of lies that deceive the whole world. This would also mean that he is responsible for long-term deception—indoctrination, predictive programming, moral decay—you name it.

The original lie from which all other lies proceed is that there is no consequence for disobedience of God. I don't think of it as mass psychosis at all, because it's not some fluke, not some mental illness, it's the result of sin and the ongoing satanic agenda that will not end until the second coming.

Rachel20 said:

I'm not sure what the general population were thinking in 1930s Germany

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Then why not find out, instead of allowing your ignorance to fuel the level of gullibility required to swallow this hypnosis nonsense.

Nazi indoctrination and anti-Semitic beliefs in Germany

It is utterly reprehensible and immoral that anyone would peddle garbage that equates Nazi Germany to life saving vaccines. Talk about moral decay.

Rachel20 said:

He isn't equating Nazi Germany to the vaccines, but to the measures being taken against the unvaxxed. An example from the Times of India:

MADURAI: People without Covid-19 vaccination certificates wo ..

Read more at:
Vaccination certificate to be mandatory for entry into public places in Madurai district from Dec 13 | Madurai News - Times of India

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Right. Stopping people from entering stores and entertainment areas because they refuse to have a sense of civic duty is just like rounding them up for execution.

Immoral and reprehensible.