COVID and Those Crazy Israelis

BigDaddy4

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Wasn't it just a few months ago that posters on here were holding up COVID vaccination data from Israel as proof that vaccinations weren't working?

Interesting read...

Research shows huge benefit of COVID-19 booster shots

Booster shots drove down cases of severe COVID-19 and death in older Israelis and reduced infections in senior citizens and middle-aged adults, the research shows. But boosters prevented new infections most dramatically in 16- to 29-year-olds — a finding with potentially far-reaching implications.

 

ralliann

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Wasn't it just a few months ago that posters on here were holding up COVID vaccination data from Israel as proof that vaccinations weren't working?
And? Obviously they were not.
Interesting read...

Research shows huge benefit of COVID-19 booster shots

Booster shots drove down cases of severe COVID-19 and death in older Israelis and reduced infections in senior citizens and middle-aged adults, the research shows. But boosters prevented new infections most dramatically in 16- to 29-year-olds — a finding with potentially far-reaching implications.
And? Needing boosters proves the vaccines alone were not working. I am glad the boosters are doing well, but I don't get your point?
 
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Nithavela

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And? Obviously they were not.

And? Needing boosters proves the vaccines alone were not working. I am glad the boosters are doing well, but I don't get your point?
Boosters are part of a vaccination. It's nothing different than some vaccines (even non-covid vaccines) requiring a second dose.
 
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rambot

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And? Obviously they were not.

And? Needing boosters proves the vaccines alone were not working. I am glad the boosters are doing well, but I don't get your point?
Really? What's different, about the boosters?
 
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ralliann

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Boosters are part of a vaccination. It's nothing different than some vaccines (even non-covid vaccines) requiring a second dose.
But, the point in even bringing up vaccines alone, before boosters were even available? What was said was true, as it is true today. Vaccines were not that effective, as they still are not. Therefore a booster is needed.
 
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Nithavela

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But, the point in even bringing up vaccines alone, before boosters were even available? What was said was true, as it is true today. Vaccines were not that effective, as they still are not. Therefore a booster is needed.
The booster is just another dose of vaccine.
 
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ralliann

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Really? What's different, about the boosters?
No. The op spoke about vaccines not being that effective. This was before boosters were even developed. The vaccines themselves alone were not that effective. It was true and it is still true. I don't know why it was even an issue in the op.
The booster is just another dose of vaccine.
So? What was said at that time was true.
 
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Nithavela

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No. The op spoke about vaccines not being that effective. This was before boosters were even developed. The vaccines themselves alone were not that effective. It was true and it is still true. I don't know why it was even an issue in the op.

So? What was said at that time was true.
The vaccines were effective. That has been well established with evidence.
 
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BigDaddy4

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And? Obviously they were not.

And? Needing boosters proves the vaccines alone were not working. I am glad the boosters are doing well, but I don't get your point?
And if one has a problem with getting a vax shot in the first place, which, as I recall, was the argument being made previously, then a booster certainly won't help. Duh? :scratch:
 
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BigDaddy4

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No. The op spoke about vaccines not being that effective. This was before boosters were even developed. The vaccines themselves alone were not that effective. It was true and it is still true. I don't know why it was even an issue in the op.
Probably because you don't understand the difference between the vaccine and the booster?
 
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ralliann

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Probably because you don't understand the difference between the vaccine and the booster?
That does not matter. Why bring up something that was true at the time? Just to argue over it? So far more is needed. So far that is. we will see if more or more is needed or not. I hope the boosters are enough.
 
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Aldebaran

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Boosters are part of a vaccination. It's nothing different than some vaccines (even non-covid vaccines) requiring a second dose.

After only 6 months?
 
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ralliann

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After only 6 months?
Perhaps. But if that is found to be true (time will tell) it will be true that the vaccine and booster does not work. Maybe another booster will ensue. But it will be true at that time all the same.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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And? Needing boosters proves the vaccines alone were not working. I am glad the boosters are doing well, but I don't get your point?

Well, to clarify, there's a difference between the understood concept that not every vaccine confers lifetime protective benefits, and needs to be boosted if the protection starts to wane...and the types of theories we were seeing trotted out on a near daily basis about how "they don't work" almost from the moment of their initial rollout.

Long before the "waning factor" even kicked in and the two-dose was still holding up well, there were already the usual suspects on here clinging to any report they could find about a breakthrough infection, or a few people who died from covid post vaccination as a means to claim "see, those jabs don't work!"

There were already people at this point in time:
upload_2021-12-10_16-20-11.png


...saying things like "6 people died of covid today in Israel, 3 of them were fully vaccinated...so see!, Half of the people dying are fully vaccinated" to try to prove some sort of point. (completely ignoring the fact that deaths had gone way down, and using faulty math that ignored the fact that the numbers were what they were because the majority of people were vaccinated)

The kind of faulty logic we heard being trotted out from that crew resembled something like the following-
3 out of the 100 unvaccinated died
3 out of the 1,000,000 vaccinated died
Therefore, both groups are equally vulnerable. See!, both sides had 3 deaths!
 
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ralliann

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Well, to clarify, there's a difference between the understood concept that not every vaccine confers lifetime protective benefits, and needs to be boosted if the protection starts to wane...and the types of theories we were seeing trotted out on a near daily basis about how "they don't work" almost from the moment of their initial rollout.
The same is true of pro vaxxers. So, is it just to argue now?
Long before the "waning factor" even kicked in and the two-dose was still holding up well, there were already the usual suspects on here clinging to any report they could find about a breakthrough infection, or a few people who died from covid post vaccination as a means to claim "see, those jabs don't work!"
Lots of stuff said by the other side too.
There were already people at this point in time:
View attachment 309282

...saying things like "6 people died of covid today in Israel, 3 of them were fully vaccinated...so see!, Half of the people dying are fully vaccinated" to try to prove some sort of point. (completely ignoring the fact that deaths had gone way down, and using faulty math that ignored the fact that the numbers were what they were because the majority of people were vaccinated)

The kind of faulty logic we heard being trotted out from that crew resembled something like the following-
3 out of the 100 unvaccinated died
3 out of the 1,000,000 vaccinated died
Therefore, both groups are equally vulnerable. See!, both sides had 3 deaths!
Hmm hmm. Love to argue your choices is all. Let's just wait and see.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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After only 6 months?

We do flu shots once a year. For people who travel to places where it's prevalent, malaria shots are once a year.

There are other common vaccines you'll notice in this list that have familiar sounding recommendations as far as the scheduling of of the 3-dose regimen.
https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/patient_care/immunizations/adult-immunization-schedule.pdf
(A couple referencing the first two doses 4 weeks apart, then dose number 3 six to eight months later)

For adults who are getting vaccinated for the first time who never completed their primary vaccine 3-dose series, they recommend the timing be:
• For unvaccinated adults, administer the first 2 doses at least 4 weeks apart and the third dose 6 to 12 months after the second.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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The same is true of pro vaxxers. So, is it just to argue now?
Lots of stuff said by the other side too.

The difference is that the pro-vaccine side has aggregated data to back up our assertions that they are effective.

Both sides say lots of stuff, but one side (the pro-vaccine side) doesn't have to rely on isolated anecdotes, out-of-context numbers, the unreliable VAERS database, and doesn't have to practically court conspiracy theorists as allies in order to argue our side's position.
 
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ralliann

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The difference is that the pro-vaccine side has aggregated data to back up our assertions that they are effective.
Oh is that why they didn't know they wouldn't work?
Both sides say lots of stuff, but one side (the pro-vaccine side) doesn't have to rely on isolated anecdotes, out-of-context numbers, the unreliable VAERS database, and doesn't have to practically court conspiracy theorists as allies in order to argue our side's position.
So, do tell from your data. How many boosters before this pandemic is absolutely over? You didn't know it then and you don't know it now. Lets just wait and see, as the "data" and "stats" are all changing as we go.
 
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