Does "Israel" mean "the church"?

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jgr

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The kingdom of God will become the ruling kingdom here on this earth over all kingdoms when Jesus returns, to rule and reign this earth from Jerusalem.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Both the gospel of the Kingdom and the gospel of Salvation are the substance of the Lord's prayer,

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. [the gospel of the Kingdom]

Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [the gospel of Salvation]

Fulfilled long ago in and by Christ.

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 9:35
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Mark 1:14
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 
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Biblewriter

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Thus you believe, in contradiction and denial of the following EXPLICITLY STATED SCRIPTURE:

1. That the first covenant is not old, decayed, and vanished.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

2. That the first covenant is not taken away.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Every one of these accusations is a blatant lie.
 
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Biblewriter

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What do we call people today who are trumpeting the notion that 2/3 of all Jews need to be slaughtered sometime in our future?

I think there's a name for that.
That is a false accusation. I neither said, nor implied, that this SHOULD happen. I pointed out that God EXPLICITLY SAID that it WILL happen.
 
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Guojing

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Many people insist that in Bible prophecy, the many promises made to “Israel,” actually meant “the church.” This doctrine is defended by a wide spectrum of ideas. One end of this spectrum is a claim that all the promises of God are conditional, and that “Israel,” having failed to meet the conditions of the promises made to her, lost them, and they were transferred to “the church.” At the opposite end of ths spectrum is a claim that there has only been one single “people of God” throughout all the ages. So this one “people of God,” which were called “Israel” in the Old Testament, are the same people that are now called “the church.” But however this doctrine is reached, the people who teach it insist that it is clearly taught in the New Testament. This claim, however, is factually incorrect. There are, indeed, a few places in the New Testament that can rationally be INTERPRETED to mean that “the church” is “Israel.” But there is NOT EVEN ONE passage, anywhere in the entire Bible, that actually SAYS that. So this doctrine is UNQUESTIONABLY based on INTERPRETATION, rather than on EVEN ONE actual statement of scripture.

But while they INTERPRET the name “Israel” to mean “the church,” this INTERPRETATION falls down when we come to the many other names used by God in making the many promises found in the Old Testament. For God did not JUST promise end time blessings to the NATION of Israel. (And, yes, He actually did specifically use the word “NATION.”) He also made similar promises to each of the ancient sub-nations of Ephraim and Judah, and to each of the twelve tribes of Israel by name. And no scripture even HINTS at an idea that ANY of these fourteen other names means “the church.”

This INTERPRETATION also breaks down when we come to God’s EXPLICITLY STATED promises concerning a PLOT OF REAL ESTATE in the Middle East. Ezekiel 36:1-10 promises the “mountains of Israel,” along with “the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken,” that they will again be “inhabited” by “all the house of Israel, all of it.” Further, Ezekiel 47:13-20 SPECIFICALLY defines the borders of this PLOT OF REAL ESTATE, and the following chapter, Ezekiel 48, specifies how this PLOT OF REAL ESTATE will be divided among the twelve tribes of Israel, naming each tribe, and specifying the location of its individual PLOT OF REAL ESTATE. There is no rational way to even PRETEND that all this refers to “the church.”

The end result of this doctrine is that these people are using THEIR INTERPRETATIONS of the MEANINGS of some scriptures that NEVER, EVEN ONCE, actually SAY what they INTERPRET them to MEAN, as an excuse to DENY that other scriptures MEAN what they EXPLICITLY SAY.

This question could be phrased more clearly. Israel the nation, in the OT days was a church.

Whenever you see the word “church” in the Bible, it does not necessarily refer to the Church the Body of Christ. “Church” simply means “a called-out assembly.” There are three “churches” in Scripture: the Mosaic Church, the Messianic Church, and the Mystery Church.

The Mosaic Church is mentioned in Acts 7:38, when the Prophet Stephen refers to the nation Israel as “the church in the wilderness.” The LORD had just called out Israel from Egyptian bondage. Certainly, that “church” had nothing to do with the Body of Christ—it was the nation Israel, a separate and distinct entity. This Mosaic Church derives its name from Moses, the man whom God used to lead Israel from Egypt to the edge of the Promised Land.

The Greek word ecclesia (often translated “church”) is correctly translated “assembly” in Acts 19:32. The King James translators did not use the word “church” here because it was not a group of believers, but rather a mob of pagan worshippers who were angry with the Apostle Paul after he spoke against their mythological goddess Diana. Again, “church” does not always mean “a group of believers;” likewise, “church” in the Bible does not always refer to the Church the Body of Christ. The context determines the definition of the term.
 
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Guojing

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The gospel of the Kingdom of God was preached by the disciples to the towns and cities in Israel as Jesus sent them to do before Jesus was crucified and rose on the third day.

The Kingdom of God was taken from that generation of Jews who ended up going into captivity.

The gospel of Salvation, which Jesus in Luke 24:44-48, after His resurrection, told the disciples (and later Paul) to go out and preach to the nations is for the propitiation of sins and eternal life was available to all to whom it was preached.

The gospel of the Kingdom of God is collective, while the gospel of Salvation is directed at individuals.

You may be keen on this, to support some of your points

difference between 2 gospels Source March 2021 Berean spotlight magazine.jpg
 
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Douggg

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Fulfilled long ago in and by Christ.

Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 4:23
And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Matthew 9:35
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Mark 1:14
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
jgr, you are making my point. Before the cross and the resurrection - Jesus sent the diciples out to preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God to the nation of Israel... but do not go to the gentiles, Matthew 10:5. Differently, the gospel of Salvation was to be spread to the nations, in Luke 24:44-48, beginning in Jerusalem.
 
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Guojing

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jgr, you are making my point. Before the cross and the resurrection - Jesus sent the diciples out to preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God to the nation of Israel... but do not go to the gentiles, Matthew 10:5. Differently, the gospel of Salvation was to be spread to the nations, in Luke 24:44-48, beginning in Jerusalem.

This is interesting, when Jesus told them the "Great Commission", the final verse in Matthew 28:20 stated that they are to teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you

Do you mean to say that "all things" excluded Matthew 10:5?

Did the 11 understood Jesus as meaning they are now to preach to the gentiles as well, starting from the book of Acts?
 
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jgr

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jgr, you are making my point. Before the cross and the resurrection - Jesus sent the diciples out to preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God to the nation of Israel... but do not go to the gentiles, Matthew 10:5. Differently, the gospel of Salvation was to be spread to the nations, in Luke 24:44-48, beginning in Jerusalem.

Douggg, Christ established His Kingdom at His first coming.

If that's your point, I fully agree.
 
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jgr

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This question could be phrased more clearly. Israel the nation, in the OT days was a church.

Whenever you see the word “church” in the Bible, it does not necessarily refer to the Church the Body of Christ. “Church” simply means “a called-out assembly.” There are three “churches” in Scripture: the Mosaic Church, the Messianic Church, and the Mystery Church.

The Mosaic Church is mentioned in Acts 7:38, when the Prophet Stephen refers to the nation Israel as “the church in the wilderness.” The LORD had just called out Israel from Egyptian bondage. Certainly, that “church” had nothing to do with the Body of Christ—it was the nation Israel, a separate and distinct entity. This Mosaic Church derives its name from Moses, the man whom God used to lead Israel from Egypt to the edge of the Promised Land.

The Greek word ecclesia (often translated “church”) is correctly translated “assembly” in Acts 19:32. The King James translators did not use the word “church” here because it was not a group of believers, but rather a mob of pagan worshippers who were angry with the Apostle Paul after he spoke against their mythological goddess Diana. Again, “church” does not always mean “a group of believers;” likewise, “church” in the Bible does not always refer to the Church the Body of Christ. The context determines the definition of the term.

The true Church has always been the assembly of the faithful and obedient.

It was not the nation of Israel, but rather the faithful obedient remnant within the nation.

Today it is the faithful obedient remnant within the world.

An assembly determined spiritually.

By faith and obedience.

And nothing else.
 
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Guojing

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The true Church has always been the assembly of the faithful and obedient.

It was not the nation of Israel, but rather the faithful obedient remnant within the nation.

Today it is the faithful obedient remnant within the world.

An assembly determined spiritually.

By faith and obedience.

And nothing else.

Yes but not all assemblies are "faith and obedience". The one in Acts 19 is not
 
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Douggg

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Douggg

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This is interesting, when Jesus told them the "Great Commission", the final verse in Matthew 28:20 stated that they are to teach them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you

Do you mean to say that "all things" excluded Matthew 10:5?

Did the 11 understood Jesus as meaning they are now to preach to the gentiles as well, starting from the book of Acts?
The gospel of the Kingdom of God and the gospel of Salvation will be preached unto all nations.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 
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Guojing

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Douggg

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Is that a yes, that means you believe the 11 understood that command as to preach to all gentiles as well?
Yes, the gospel of the Kingdom of God and the gospel of Salvation were together the great commission.

When Jesus returns, the kingdoms of this world will have been taken from Satan's kingdom and become the kingdoms of God and His Christ.
 
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parousia70

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That is a false accusation. I neither said, nor implied, that this SHOULD happen. I pointed out that God EXPLICITLY SAID that it WILL happen.

So you Don't think it SHOULD happen then? or you do?
 
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jgr

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Yes but not all assemblies are "faith and obedience". The one in Acts 19 is not

If it was not and is not an assembly of faith and obedience, then it was not and is not an assembly of the true Church.
 
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jgr

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"Thine is the Kingdom" declares the Fulfillment of the Gospel of the Kingdom, in and by Christ at His First Coming.

Daniel 2:44 prophesies that Fulfillment, in and by Christ at His First Coming.

Daniel 7:27 prophesies that Fulfillment, in and by Christ at His First Coming.

Jesus got His Timing right.

When He said "the time is fulfilled", He wasn't referring to a dispensationalized decapitation of unknown occurrence thousands of years into the future.

It was fulfilled reality when He announced it.

Mark 1
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
 
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parousia70

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Spiritual Jew

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The kingdom of God will become the ruling kingdom here on this earth over all kingdoms when Jesus returns, to rule and reign this earth from Jerusalem.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Both the gospel of the Kingdom and the gospel of Salvation are the substance of the Lord's prayer,

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. [the gospel of the Kingdom]

Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [the gospel of Salvation]
Again, there is only one gospel. This two gospel theory is not taught anywhere in scripture. The one gospel is all about salvation through faith in Christ and His death and resurrection. It results in spiritual salvation now and will result in inheriting the kingdom of God in its fullness with the ushering in of the eternal new heavens and new earth when He returns. That is the gospel. The idea of there being two separate gospels is as farfetched as any belief can be.
 
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Guojing

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So what do you do with Colossians 1:13 ?
He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son

To clarify, are you reasoning like the following?

Since Paul preached the Kingdom of God
and Peter also preached the Kingdom of God

Therefore Peter and Paul must be preaching the same gospel?
 
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