When is abortion - homicide, when is murder of a human not homicide?

BNR32FAN said:

Infants and toddlers can’t survive on their own.

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what's your opinion on the debate?

What do you think is the correct way of looking at the subject of ending pregnancies?

What's right and why?

Confused-by-christianity said:

what's your opinion on the debate?

What do you think is the correct way of looking at the subject of ending pregnancies?

What's right and why?

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I believe if you don’t want to have a child then you should take precautions before having sex.

BNR32FAN said:

I believe if you don’t want to have a child then you should take precautions before having sex.

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So those who carelessly have unprotected sex and get pregnant ought not be allowed to terminate the pregnancy?

BNR32FAN said:

again this is completely irrelevant in determining whether or not the fetus is alive. Dead fetus don’t kick, they don’t do anything.

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A dead fetus is just that. A dead fetus. It's not a dead baby.

BNR32FAN said:

I never said anything about murder we’re discussing whether or not a fetus is alive. By your logic if you stop (kill) it at infant it’s not a child either. The very definition of the word abortion implies that a fetus is alive.

Abortion-the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus

A fetus can’t die if it isn’t alive.

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I never denied it was dead. The op asks if it is homicide and I say "no." An infant is not a child and a fetus is not a baby.

chevyontheriver said:

True. Are they dead or alive?

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That's a good question. I would say no, they are not fully alive until they can breathe on their own. Before that, they are a symbiote which is an organism that depends on another organism for life.

chevyontheriver said:

If you leave a four month old baby alone it will die. Even a two year old is not independent. Maybe a five year old. We are not independent beings for the most part even as adults.

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Does a baby breathe independently? Yes A fetus, no.

Confused-by-christianity said:

what's your opinion on the debate?

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Abortion kills a live human being.

What do you think is the correct way of looking at the subject of ending pregnancies?

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To get pregnancies go to natural birth as the best end of a pregnancy. To do nothing to end a pregnancy prematurely.

What's right and why?

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It's not right to kill innocent human beings. That SHOULD be self evident.

Confused-by-christianity said:

So those who carelessly have unprotected sex and get pregnant ought not be allowed to terminate the pregnancy?

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Yes they should not be allowed

Error

rturner76 said:

That's a good question.

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It IS a good question.

I would say no, they are not fully alive until they can breathe on their own.

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The question I asked was 'Are they dead or alive.' You seem to say 'no'. As in 'I would say no.'

Before that, they are a symbiote which is an organism that depends on another organism for life.

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We are as humans, with exceptionally rare exceptions, dependent on other humans. We do not thrive, with exceptionally rare exceptions, when we are alone. So are we alive?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

rturner76 said:

A dead fetus is just that. A dead fetus. It's not a dead baby.

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it is a dead human being, homicide is not limited to babies it includes all stages of human development.

rturner76 said:

Does a baby breathe independently? Yes A fetus, no.

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As a result of Polio many people were put in iron lungs which breathed for them. Were they dead or alive? They could not breathe independently. We see people on respirators as a result of Covid? They can't breathe independently. Are they dead or alive? Human or non-human?

rturner76 said:

I never denied it was dead. The op asks if it is homicide and I say "no." An infant is not a child and a fetus is not a baby.

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you said a fetus is not alive, my point was to prove that they are.

rturner76 said:

That's a good question. I would say no, they are not fully alive until they can breathe on their own. Before that, they are a symbiote which is an organism that depends on another organism for life.

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Why is breathing on its own the defining factor for something being alive? Is it because it’s simply one thing that separates a fetus from the rest of human beings? There’s a distinct difference between a living and a dead fetus. You can’t have a dead fetus if there are no living fetuses. Like I showed already the very definition of the word abortion implies that the fetus is alive since the act causes its death.

BNR32FAN said:

Yes they should not be allowed

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Are you implying all other terminations should be allowed?
??

rturner76 said:

Does a baby breathe independently? Yes A fetus, no.

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So what, it’s not fully developed yet and neither is a baby or a child, or an adolescent. Breathing has nothing to do with whether a life form is alive or not I’ve already proven that since nothing can die that isn’t or wasn’t alive.

Confused-by-christianity said:

Are you implying all other terminations should be allowed?
??

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I don’t know what you mean by “all other terminations”.

BNR32FAN said:

I don’t know what you mean by “all other terminations”.

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So your opinion is that :

The only abortions that happen are from people who
1) Carelessly had unprotected sex, when
2) They didn't want children.

This should not be allowed.

Is that a fair summary of your view??

rambot said:

Well that's embarrassing. I used the wrong word. When talking about what a fetus "wants", it makes no sense to bring up that it is "sentient".....

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It makes no sense to talk about what a minor wants at all. The desires of children at any stage of development are irrelevant to what adults ought to do to keep children safe from harm.