"Do your research"

tas8831

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I find it ironic that the crowd that declares that they have 'done their research', upon being asked for verification/support for/evidence regarding their claims typically reply with a version of "do your own research"* almost never know what 'research' actually is, and never question the sources that provide them with the 'answers' that they want to hear.

The 'do your research'/'I did my research' mantra has become a common antic among anti-science types in general, from generic conspiracy nuts ('the WTC were demolished by Mossad agents using radiation-less mini-nukes planted in the basements that were able to direct their energy to exit at the precise location the planes struck'**) to antivaxxers ('the jab gave me herpes!'***) to creationists.

I was a 'victim' of such pseudocertain, Dunning-Kruger effect gibberish about a year ago.

A relative of mine, eager to support and defend the implicit claims of her new Messiah, Donald Trump, sought to own me by citing an article on ozone therapy to prove that Trump was right.
Right about what? Surely you remember when he suggested that 'we' are or should be looking into "injecting" disinfectants into our lungs or otherwise into the body in the famous press conference in which one of his people had just finished talking about using bleach and isopropyl alcohol to disinfect surfaces?

Almost immediately after he made that stupid claim, his acolytes began searching for ways to justify his stupidity, and the Twitterverse and Q-related goobers conjured up 'light therapy' and 'ozone therapy' - neither of which the Orange Messiah had mentioned - to own the libs.

Why? Because 1. these are or can be used as 'disinfectants' and 2. alt-med loons try to use these as 'therapies.'

My relative focused on ozone therapy, and presented me with a copy-pasted, unsourced rant about how it has been used for decades in India and elsewhere, so Trump was totally right, and that I should "do my own research" instead of listening to the MSM.
That alone was odd - my relative has an educational pedigree akin to Lauren Boebert's (though she did later go to college for art), while I have an earned doctorate from an accredited institution and have been in academia for decades and some of my research papers have been cited in popular textbooks and such.. but, OK..

So... First, I tried to find her source. It was pretty hard - when I googled phrases from what she had posted, I got many hits - to social media posts/discussion forums in which loons were copy-pasting it without question. What made it harder is that so many of these "researchers" do not seem to understand how copy-pasting works, and so apparently re-typed the whole thing (about 4 paragraphs) and invariably made typing errors - but I eventually found the "original" source, as best I could tell. I think it was a Q-related website, but there were no author names, no date, etc (really odd) and, of course, no references. Odd for a 'researcher', right?

Long story short, I eventually found the primary sources - one was a review paper from an obscure alt-med journal from India, in which the amazing benefits of ozone therapy were merely presented as fact with no real support; the other was from an otherwise fairly reliable online medical source which I found sad.

The paper from India had many references, most of which were not possible for me to locate. Of those I was able to locate, none indicated or implied that ozone could be used as an injection or inhalant therapy (this becomes important in a second). Most of the sources referred to using ozone as a 'spray' (I don't know what the appropriate medical term is) on surface wounds or in dentistry, so even if those applications were valid, they did not support the overall implications of the review paper, and thus did not at all support Trump's statement.
The online medical site article (which I will not name, as they completely re-wrote the article and added a disclaimer after I had made them aware of the following), while not as glowing in its support for ozone therapy, nevertheless presented it as a potential alternative treatment (though not specifically for Covid). I was shocked to find the following things in the article, however - 1. its primary source was the same kooky alt-med paper from India that I had initially found, and 2, it listed 3 examples of ozone being used in clinical trials for the treatment of various ailments. It was bad enough that this article, which had been written by an RN, MPH and 'reviewed for medical accuracy' by an MD, was used as a primary source, but when I looked up the clinical trials... wow...

Ozone was used in them, alright - but NOT as a therapeutic agent, but rather to stimulate inflammation in order to test OTHER drugs! I was shocked at how this was missed (the updated online article no longer mentions clinical trials)!

So, I wrote up my findings for my relative and she apologized for her unwarranted condescension and retracted her claim of support for Trump's dopiness re: disinfectants.

Wait - no she didn't. She told me I was just an arrogant academic and that I should stop being a sheep and blocked me on social media.

So much for the "I did my research" crowd. I've yet to encounter ANY such person who actually knows how to support a claim or actually do any kind of research, which to them appears to mean 'read something on social media/website that props up your prejudices'.

Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?




* or, just as likely, that you are a 'sheep' or is 'under the control of the gubmint/MSM/tyrants' or a 'paid shill' for daring to question their cult's disinformation
** this was actually posited on a conspiracy theory forum on another Christian site
***actual entry (sans exclamation point) on VAERS
 

LeafByNiggle

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Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?

No. My own brother uses that expression often.

I have also seen some slightly better versions of "do your research." They often cite legitimate and relevant research papers that are really too technical for anyone other than another expert in that field to properly analyze. And so any analysis they give is hard to refute, but also hard to truly follow critically. No one likes to admit they are stupid, or even that they don't fully follow the analysis. Therefore it is easier to give in and say "Yes, I see how bleach could kill covid!" than to say "I don't quite understand this technical paper." Here's where a little humility pays off. It reminds me of the children's story, "The Emperor's New Clothes". It took the humility of child to admit they did not see what others claimed to see.
 
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Trusting in Him

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I don't know very much about what America's government experts have been saying, but some of our own experts in the UK, when being interviewed by the media are very definitely going out of their way, to admit how little it is possible to be sure about what to expect as time goes on, except in very limited general terms.

If the top experts are being so guarded about their own ability to tell us anything definitive. I'm guessing that the many untrained and non-professional others on the internet, probably don't count for much. As for myself, I do have members in my family who are medical professionals and they are very reluctant to answer others about what they know as no one has anyway of knowing how this pandemic is likely to develop.

There's a certain amount of optimisum that if the latest varient is more transmissible, then it may also hopefully be a less deadly strain as well, but we don't know if this is how it's gowing to be at present. We are still at the wait and see stage. It did take quite a long time, before vaccines where able to be produced.

If we need to at some point produce new vaccines for protecting against new varients, this might take quite a long time as well. How are we to know at this time? Masks and social distancing still has some advantages. They are not foolproof, but they can help a bit! Vaccine also appear to make some difference, but even they are not necessarily 100% effective in every case.

It still seems to me that we still need to be cautious for a bit longer! I hpoe that all you guys will stay safe and well at this time.
 
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tas8831

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No. My own brother uses that expression often.

I have also seen some slightly better versions of "do your research." They often cite legitimate and relevant research papers that are really too technical for anyone other than another expert in that field to properly analyze. And so any analysis they give is hard to refute, but also hard to truly follow critically. No one likes to admit they are stupid, or even that they don't fully follow the analysis. Therefore it is easier to give in and say "Yes, I see how bleach could kill covid!" than to say "I don't quite understand this technical paper." Here's where a little humility pays off. It reminds me of the children's story, "The Emperor's New Clothes". It took the humility of child to admit they did not see what others claimed to see.
Excellent points. I have seen that happen (citing tech papers that they really cannot comprehend) as well.
 
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SelfSim

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Wait - no she didn't. She told me I was just an arrogant academic and that I should stop being a sheep and blocked me on social media.

So much for the "I did my research" crowd. I've yet to encounter ANY such person who actually knows how to support a claim or actually do any kind of research, which to them appears to mean 'read something on social media/website that props up your prejudices'.

Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?
No. I have abandoned many strained friendships where the principle of 'everything is politics', (meaning opinions), lies close to the surface in just about every conversation with these folk. There's just no intellectual 'juice' to keep me sufficiently interested in keeping such relationships going.

The above principle those folk operate from seems to be accompanied by their lack of ability to support their opinions. In fact they seem to all have the common characteristic of getting very agressive when the slightest enquiry is made about what they continually assume (and push) as being hard fact.

As I age, wisdom, to me, is about acquiring the knowledge and skills to 'find out', rather than just take other people's opinions as being just so. I generally lose respect when I can see others show that they have no intentions of 'finding out' for themselves using objective reasoning as the process of acquiring knowledge .. and thus wisdom.

Am I just being arrogant?
 
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essentialsaltes

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Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?

At best, it's very familiar from the paranormal world.

'Yes, yes, I know what the scientific consensus is, but look at this one study from Warsaw with a marginally significant result that has never been replicated. This means something!'
 
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Petros2015

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So, I wrote up my findings for my relative and she apologized for her unwarranted condescension and retracted her claim of support for Trump's dopiness re: disinfectants.

Wait... what?!? That's a surprise

Wait - no she didn't. She told me I was just an arrogant academic and that I should stop being a sheep and blocked me on social media.

LOL. Ok, yes that's more like what happens.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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So much for the "I did my research" crowd. I've yet to encounter ANY such person who actually knows how to support a claim or actually do any kind of research, which to them appears to mean 'read something on social media/website that props up your prejudices'.

Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?
Nope. 'Research' often means YouTube, or a quote-mining site that supports their view, or obsolete science, or misinterpreted science (like OnePath, quote-mining and misreading Newton as 'proof' that Newton thought gravity was absurd :doh:)
 
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Sunshinee777

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I find it ironic that the crowd that declares that they have 'done their research', upon being asked for verification/support for/evidence regarding their claims typically reply with a version of "do your own research"*

So you expected that after spending 10 years doing research of what’s going in this world, we have to provide for you all the thousands and thousands webpages we have gone through? And give you presentation of our conclusions? You wouldn’t believe anyway, we know that it would be waste of our time and energy that’s why we (foliohats) say ”do your own research” then you can make up your own conclusion. Why people think that there would be just one place or one source where ”all the facts lay” that is absurd. You need to research for yourself.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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Anyone ever found anything of value from such folks?
I think about how I value people and how I treat them. I think about my character a lot.
How do I treat people when I feel I could defeat them?
What about when they are blatantly wrong, not so well read, not as educated? What about if I'm well educated compared to them and I feel they are teaching me to suck eggs?

People, educated or not, christian or athiest, right or wrong about the facts - can be really obnoxious. Especially when they feel they have the jump on someone.

I know people enjoy a good fight over some subject - I guess it's just a little like sport??

My personal believe is that people aren't really very intelligent at all.
My belief - is that there are beings, watching us, who are much higher orders of life than us. They are probably amused by us - toddlers in their eyes - arguing about what we "know" and how we know it hahaha
In fact, when I find myself in some argument on some forum - I feel like the idiot hahaha

Usually - in person - I just let people tell me what they think they know and respect it as their opinion.
I don't necessarily argue with them.
I might question a little bit but if I feel they are getting defensive I back off.
(at least I hope I'm that good - and not just another obnoxious fool).

I wonder about the persons motives a lot too...
  1. Some people are just telling me what they know. They aren't necessarily asking you for your input, nor are they open to hearing about mistakes in their thinking.
  2. Some people are just saying stuff and seeing who refutes them, so they can argue their mission a little further - baiting you so they can tell you their "truth" - what ever that happens to be.
  3. Some people think they are more intelligent than most and want to prove it on a forum??? (maybe they have a little bit of university or have read a lot on a subject and want an ego rub???) hahaha
I see 2 and 3 on forums a lot - they go around and around until the posts turn into nonsense, pages long, with highlighting and large fonts haha (Darn it - I'm being the obnoxious one again - making fun of everyone ;-) hahaha)
 
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partinobodycular

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So you expected that after spending 10 years doing research of what’s going in this world, we have to provide for you all the thousands and thousands webpages we have gone through?
No, we don't expect you to provide thousands and thousands of webpages worth of research, we simply expect you to provide some manner of corroborating evidence, not just claims of evidence.

After all, a claim presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
 
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Subduction Zone

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So you expected that after spending 10 years doing research of what’s going in this world, we have to provide for you all the thousands and thousands webpages we have gone through? And give you presentation of our conclusions? You wouldn’t believe anyway, we know that it would be waste of our time and energy that’s why we (foliohats) say ”do your own research” then you can make up your own conclusion. Why people think that there would be just one place or one source where ”all the facts lay” that is absurd. You need to research for yourself.
If one makes a claim one takes on a burden of proof. Many people may think that they have "researched" but most of the time they only looked for articles that agreed with what they already believed. If one wants to claim to "know" something one needs to be able to support it. If one only claims to believe something that does not really need any support. The problem is that believing something does not mean that idea is correct. If one can demonstrate that one's ideas are correct that is much more convincing.
 
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Sunshinee777

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If one makes a claim one takes on a burden of proof. Many people may think that they have "researched" but most of the time they only looked for articles that agreed with what they already believed. If one wants to claim to "know" something one needs to be able to support it. If one only claims to believe something that does not really need any support. The problem is that believing something does not mean that idea is correct. If one can demonstrate that one's ideas are correct that is much more convincing.

I think that those who know the truth are not here to push it on others. When you leave the work for the one who were asking proof, you make sure he is ready to hear the truth. Many people here just deny everything which is opposing their views no matter how waterproof your proofs are. So it’s waste of time, they already made up their mind about things. They can’t digest new information with open mind. ”In a time of information, being a ignorant is a choice” if you don’t do your own research, it’s your choice. It’s all there in www. But, for how long? Websites of independent journalists are (and have been!) disappearing very fast pace, so hurry up.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I think that those who know the truth are not here to push it on others. When you leave the work for the one who were asking proof, you make sure he is ready to hear the truth. Many people here just deny everything which is opposing their views no matter how waterproof your proofs are. So it’s waste of time, they already made up their mind about things. They can’t digest new information with open mind. ”In a time of information, being a ignorant is a choice” if you don’t do your own research, it’s your choice. It’s all there in www. But, for how long? Websites of independent journalists are (and have been!) disappearing very fast pace, so hurry up.
I highly doubt your claim. People that actually have discovered something are usually more than happy to do their homework and demonstrate the evidence that supports them. Those that have a mere belief like to pretend that their statements are somehow proof enough. Right now you look like you are in the second group.
 
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Shemjaza

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A good general come back for "Do your own research" is to point out that "Knowledge is demonstrable. If you can't show it, you don't know it".

I got that from an ex-member here. Anyone know who?
AronRa?
 
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