Help with 1 Cor 12:28,29

I certainly do believe the office of the prophet is still with us today. I do not believe however they carry the same force as Old Testament prophets. Heb 1:1 states,

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son.....

As many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God and God leads us largely by the inward witness in our spirits.

While I do believe there is prophets in our age today such doesn't mean I accept whenever somebody claims they're a prophet or others do to that doesn't mean I believe them. I get a feel in my spirit if someone is credible and I prove all things and hold fast to that which if good.

Bobber said:

I certainly do believe the office of the prophet is still with us today. I do not believe however they carry the same force as Old Testament prophets. Heb 1:1 states,

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son.....

As many as are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God and God leads us largely by the inward witness in our spirits.

While I do believe there is prophets in our age today such doesn't mean I accept whenever somebody claims they're a prophet or others do to that doesn't mean I believe them. I get a feel in my spirit if someone is credible and I prove all things and hold fast to that which if good.

Click to expand...

“Many are called, few are chosen.” Matthew 22:1-14
God may speak to the righteous and the unrighteousness. A prophet will give a message in the name of God.

Paul was called to become an apostle to the Gentiles. He helped organize church meetings. Some were inspired by God to speak in his meetings. Such is prophesy.

1 Corinthians 14:29 Let the prophets speak, two or three, and let the others discern. 30 But if a revelation is made to another sitting by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you all can prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted. 32 The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets, 33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

Carl Emerson said:

Some folks seem to believe that all believers function as prophets.

I had some discussion on this issue on this thread, but it didn't get much traction.

Blessing or Cursing, Life or Death

I cited this passage to establish that only some have this calling.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues.
29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

It was claimed "A person with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a prophet. Christianity is the faith of the prophets."

Is this a widely held belief?

Comments appreciated.

Click to expand...

The grammar of the above text in Greek doesn't allow for that reading. Verse 29:

μὴ πάντες ἀπόστολοι; μὴ πάντες προφῆται; μὴ πάντες διδάσκαλοι; μὴ πάντες δυνάμεις;

Before each question, there is the untranslated particle μὴ or mē which in Greek indicates the expected response to the question is negative. So Are all Apostles? No. Are all Prophets? No. Are all teachers? No. And so forth.

From BDAG:
μή (Hom.+) negative particle, ‘not’: ‘μή is the negative of will, wish, doubt. If οὐ denies the fact, μή denies the idea’ (Rob. 1167).

Carl Emerson said:

At this stage the scales seem to favour the Spirit giving this ability to some unless we ignore the teaching of Paul.

Click to expand...

I think we need to check what we mean by prophet in the first place.

Many of the saints in the OT are considered to be prophets without occupying a seat like Moses, without writing books or without any evidence of a prophecy given by that individual.

And if we study much of the prophets, we can see that these were people walking in very close association with the works of God. To me this implies unity. They were united in some limited degree to the Word.

In On The Incarnation, St. Athanasius says of the creation narrative:

I think it's necessary to once again call attention to the verse in Ecclesiastes:

[Ecc 12:11 KJV] 11 The words of the wise [are] as goads, and as nails fastened [by] the masters of assemblies, [which] are given from one shepherd.

Granted, there is a variation within soteriology which may find difficulty with this view, and it seems true to my experience that while it is not commonly understood in even traditional, mainstream orthodoxy, it remains recognized as an ancient conception of what it means to be saved.

If one is united to the Word such that they express the mind of God, even in limited degree, this is what it means to be a prophet. Recapitulation being derived from Paul, this, I believe, is Paul's expectation.

Carl Emerson said:

Just a comment - some claim this means all members of the congregation prophesy but the comment is addressed to the prophets not the whole congregation.

Click to expand...

Some church services are set up for the pastor to preach and the congregation to listen. It does not matter whether or not the pastor is a prophet, saint, or sinner. He is the leader. He may quote scripture, give interpretations or tell stories. People may sing hymns at appropriate times.

There are small group Bible studies where people may prophesy about a passage, if they are inspired. Some will comment even if they are not inspired. I remember attending one at someone’s house before.

According to I Corinthians, Paul had times for group discussion. Perhaps it was to discuss a sermon, ethics, the Gospel, or Torah and Tanakh (Law and Prophets).

The Quakers have meetings Sunday mornings where there is some silence. Occasionally someone attempted to give an inspired message. Women were allowed to speak. Once a woman spoke, “A man saw some letters arranged with clouds in the sky forming the letters, G P C. He thought it meant Go Preach Christ. It really meant, Go Plant Corn.”

Not all are called to be preachers. If one is asked to testify, one should speak the truth. Truth might be knowledge or prophesy.

Carl Emerson said:

Some folks seem to believe that all believers function as prophets.

I had some discussion on this issue on this thread, but it didn't get much traction.

Blessing or Cursing, Life or Death

I cited this passage to establish that only some have this calling.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues.
29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

It was claimed "A person with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a prophet. Christianity is the faith of the prophets."

Is this a widely held belief?

Comments appreciated.

Click to expand...

No because Paul is asking a series of questions to show not everyone has all the gifts.

interesting discussion, thanks all

Daniel Marsh said:

No because Paul is asking a series of questions to show not everyone has all the gifts.

Click to expand...

There's an efficient way to accomplish this. One writes something to the effect of "don't pursue this gift, it's not for everybody."

Carl Emerson said:

Some folks seem to believe that all believers function as prophets.

I had some discussion on this issue on this thread, but it didn't get much traction.

Blessing or Cursing, Life or Death

I cited this passage to establish that only some have this calling.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues.
29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

It was claimed "A person with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a prophet. Christianity is the faith of the prophets."

Is this a widely held belief?

Comments appreciated.

Click to expand...

Have you read Eph 4:11 , and is that for the Body of Christ ??

dan p

What does nthat mean ??

Acts 2:16-18 LITV
16. But this is that which has been spoken by the prophet Joel,
17. "And it shall be" in the last days, God says, "I will pour from My Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy;" "and your young men shall see visions," "and your old men shall dream dreams;"
18. "and also I will pour out My Spirit on My slaves and slave women in those days," and they shall prophesy.

Athanasius377 said:

The grammar of the above text in Greek doesn't allow for that reading. Verse 29:

μὴ πάντες ἀπόστολοι; μὴ πάντες προφῆται; μὴ πάντες διδάσκαλοι; μὴ πάντες δυνάμεις;

Before each question, there is the untranslated particle μὴ or mē which in Greek indicates the expected response to the question is negative. So Are all Apostles? No. Are all Prophets? No. Are all teachers? No. And so forth.

From BDAG:
μή (Hom.+) negative particle, ‘not’: ‘μή is the negative of will, wish, doubt. If οὐ denies the fact, μή denies the idea’ (Rob. 1167).

Click to expand...

Hi and you have been the only that I has seen to recognize the DISJUNCTIVE PARTICILE NEGATIVE

Also is the Greek words ov , ovde , Mn and there are also positive PARTICLES .

dan p

Carl Emerson said:

Some folks seem to believe that all believers function as prophets.

I had some discussion on this issue on this thread, but it didn't get much traction.

Blessing or Cursing, Life or Death

I cited this passage to establish that only some have this calling.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues.
29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they?

It was claimed "A person with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a prophet. Christianity is the faith of the prophets."

Is this a widely held belief?

Comments appreciated.

Click to expand...

Hmmm... never heard that.

My understanding of I cor 12 or 14, I forget which is that not everyone has the same gifts.