Michigan School Shooter, 15, charged as adult on murder, terrorism - parents may also be charged

Aldebaran · Dec 4, 2021

Brihaha said:
Interesting to read the mom texted Ethan when the shooting began "Ethan, don't do it!" It leads me to believe she knew he had the gun in his backpack. The parents are obviously guilty of negligence and since the school had them all in for a chat without searching his person, they seem a bit negligent too. Truly a sad tragedy which might have been prevented.

Has it been revealed that he texted his parents first? The only reason mom would say "Don't do it" is if he wrote to her first saying that he had his gun and was going to start shooting people. Before that, she probably had no idea. But this is what happens when only bits and pieces of information are being put out by the media. Another narrative will be created that will sway the public opinion, but not a judge and jury, and then more headlines get created.

GoldenBoy89 · Dec 4, 2021

Brihaha said:
Interesting to read the mom texted Ethan when the shooting began "Ethan, don't do it!" It leads me to believe she knew he had the gun in his backpack. The parents are obviously guilty of negligence and since the school had them all in for a chat without searching his person, they seem a bit negligent too. Truly a sad tragedy which might have been prevented.

Kinda scary to think about her reply. It’s like she’s knows he just might do it where I think most parents first instinct would be “not my kid, there’s no way they’re capable of such a thing” but she knows he just might which hints to some dysfunction within the family.

Tinker Grey · Dec 4, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
Kinda scary to think about her reply. It’s like she’s knows he just might do it where I think most parents first instinct would be “not my kid, there’s no way they’re capable of such a thing” but she knows he just might which hints to some dysfunction within the family.

The way I've seen the timeline is this: 1) the parents are called in; 2) (supposition) in support of their concerns, the school officials show the parents the images the teacher captured; 3) the school asks the parents to take the kid home; 4) they decline ("not my kid"); 5) later they hear "active shooter"; 6) mom texts ("well maybe my kid")

There could be more to it, of course, but it still seems to me like someone is trying to "paint a picture".

GoldenBoy89 · Dec 4, 2021

Tinker Grey said:
The way I've seen the timeline is this: 1) the parents are called in; 2) (supposition) in support of their concerns, the school officials show the parents the images the teacher captured; 3) the school asks the parents to take the kid home; 4) they decline ("not my kid"); 5) later they hear "active shooter"; 6) mom texts ("well maybe my kid")

There could be more to it, of course, but it still seems to me like someone is trying to "paint a picture".

The fact they then fled once it was announced charges are being brought against them as well points to more guilt in my opinion. Innocent people don’t behave this way typically.

Tinker Grey · Dec 4, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
The fact they then fled once it was announced charges are being brought against them as well points to more guilt in my opinion. Innocent people don’t behave this way typically.

Maybe. As I said earlier, I'm not giving them a pass, but I have been irritated by the interviews (or clips thereof) where officials try to make it seem like it was all the parents fault.

The officials could have had the kid removed regardless of the parents' wishes. In hindsight, it sure looks like they should have. But, they didn't. They failed to act responsibly and people died. Meanwhile, everyone is focused on the parents.

Too, I ran across someone saying that the parents should have checked the kid's backpack. And when would they have done that? And why wasn't the follow up question "WHY DIDN'T THE SCHOOL DO THAT?"

Goonie · Dec 4, 2021

Tinker Grey said:
Maybe. As I said earlier, I'm not giving them a pass, but I have been irritated by the interviews (or clips thereof) where officials try to make it seem like it was all the parents fault.

The officials could have had the kid removed regardless of the parents' wishes. In hindsight, it sure looks like they should have. But, they didn't. They failed to act responsibly and people died. Meanwhile, everyone is focused on the parents.

Don't worry the school will soon come under the spotlight, as I suspect if they don't face criminal charges, there almost certainly will be civil litigation from the victims families.

bekkilyn · Dec 4, 2021

While I agree it looks bad for the parents in the sense that they ran and hid, among some other things, I don't trust the media at all to tell us the truth about anything after what they've done with Kyle Rittenhouse, so I'd like to see the actual evidence that comes out in court rather than deciding on the spot whether or not they are at fault in the accusations against them.

cow451 · Dec 4, 2021

Tinker Grey said:
Maybe. As I said earlier, I'm not giving them a pass, but I have been irritated by the interviews (or clips thereof) where officials try to make it seem like it was all the parents fault.

The officials could have had the kid removed regardless of the parents' wishes. In hindsight, it sure looks like they should have. But, they didn't. They failed to act responsibly and people died. Meanwhile, everyone is focused on the parents.

Too, I ran across someone saying that the parents should have checked the kid's backpack. And when would they have done that? And why wasn't the follow up question "WHY DIDN'T THE SCHOOL DO THAT?"

The parents are more culpable than the school because they provided the murder weapon.

That said, The school has probably sent kids home for dress code infractions but didn’t consider doing that with this disturbed boy.

cow451 · Dec 4, 2021

bekkilyn said:
While I agree it looks bad for the parents in the sense that they ran and hid, among some other things, I don't trust the media at all to tell us the truth about anything after what they've done with Kyle Rittenhouse, so I'd like to see the actual evidence that comes out in court rather than deciding on the spot whether or not they are at fault in the accusations against them.

The two cases have next to nothing in common. Unless My Pillow guy posts bail.

bekkilyn · Dec 4, 2021

cow451 said:
The two cases have next to nothing in common. Unless My Pillow guy posts bail.

I didn't say they had anything in common. What I did say is that the media cannot be trusted to tell anything remotely resembling the truth. They will outright lie about multiple things and they will lie by omission about anything that doesn't fit whatever narrative they want to portray concerning the parents, the kid, the school, or anything else. It goes for everything they touch, apparently, the Rittenhouse case being just one of the most recent and obvious examples.

cow451 · Dec 4, 2021

bekkilyn said:
I didn't say they had anything in common. What I did say is that the media cannot be trusted to tell anything remotely resembling the truth. They will outright lie about multiple things and they will lie by omission about anything that doesn't fit whatever narrative they want to portray concerning the parents, the kid, the school, or anything else. It goes for everything they touch, apparently, the Rittenhouse case being just one of the most recent and obvious examples.

Maybe we can rely on our elected representatives…..
Thomas Massie tweets gun photo days after Michigan school shooting

bekkilyn · Dec 4, 2021

cow451 said:
Maybe we can rely on our elected representatives…..
Thomas Massie tweets gun photo days after Michigan school shooting

Or maybe we can rely on actual evidence from the trial when it occurs, making sure we're seeing it from a variety of sources in the case of clever editing by one or more of them.

cow451 · Dec 4, 2021

bekkilyn said:
Or maybe we can rely on actual evidence from the trial when it occurs, making sure we're seeing it from a variety of sources in the case of clever editing by one or more of them.

Seen any evidence of “clever editing”? Please keep us up to date.

bekkilyn · Dec 4, 2021

cow451 said:
Seen any evidence of “clever editing”? Please keep us up to date.

No thank you.

cow451 · Dec 4, 2021

bekkilyn said:
No thank you.

Accuracy of reporting is important. Why not help us out?

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Dec 5, 2021

It seems like Ethan Crumbley had unfit parents. Which the majority of kids have. So, they will rightfully take a plea deal. As for Ethan Crumbley, what made him do this is the bigger question.

FireDragon76 · Dec 5, 2021

Tinker Grey said:
Maybe. As I said earlier, I'm not giving them a pass, but I have been irritated by the interviews (or clips thereof) where officials try to make it seem like it was all the parents fault.

The officials could have had the kid removed regardless of the parents' wishes. In hindsight, it sure looks like they should have. But, they didn't. They failed to act responsibly and people died. Meanwhile, everyone is focused on the parents.

Too, I ran across someone saying that the parents should have checked the kid's backpack. And when would they have done that? And why wasn't the follow up question "WHY DIDN'T THE SCHOOL DO THAT?"

I agree. He should have been removed from school and law enforcement should have been contacted the moment it was suspected he was plotting to go to school with a gun and slaughter people.

Also, I don't know about in Michigan but in many states its not possible for a minor to own a handgun. They can own long guns, but not handguns. That means the parents are responsible as the ones that purchased and kept the firearm.

Tinker Grey · Dec 5, 2021

More details: Oxford High School shooting: School district releases details of key events - CNN

ETA Laws in Michigan vis-a-vis minors and guns: Minimum Age to Purchase & Possess in Michigan | Giffords

It would seem that a teenager can "own" a gun as long as the rules are followed -- i.e., can't posses in public except under direct supervision of an adult.

durangodawood · Dec 5, 2021

bekkilyn said:
Or maybe we can rely on actual evidence from the trial when it occurs, making sure we're seeing it from a variety of sources in the case of clever editing by one or more of them.

Lots of people want these parents to be guilty. So do I. Thats because in the USA there is insanely little focus on the gun responsibility that should accompany our gun rights. Parents are responsible for the mix of the guns and minors who are both in their care.

If they are not actually guilty because of other facts that I dont know about, then of course they should not be convicted.

Either way it seems quite clear they are guilty of fleeing their arraignments.

Brihaha · Dec 5, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Has it been revealed that he texted his parents first? The only reason mom would say "Don't do it" is if he wrote to her first saying that he had his gun and was going to start shooting people. Before that, she probably had no idea. But this is what happens when only bits and pieces of information are being put out by the media. Another narrative will be created that will sway the public opinion, but not a judge and jury, and then more headlines get created.

Prosecutors released this information.
Narrative is others' domain.

Michigan school shooting suspect's mother texted him, 'Don't do it,' prosecutors allege

Michigan School Shooter, 15, charged as adult on murder, terrorism - parents may also be charged

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