Witness of the Corinthian Church

fli · Nov 29, 2021

Witness of the Corinthian Church. This church was established after the Jerusalem council's (Acts 15: 6-29) recommendation on what the gentile churches had to obey concerning the law. It was not the first church established after the decision of the Jerusalem church. However, it is the church we know the most about.

Acts 18:9-11 God witnessed that He had many people in Corinth, 1Corinthians 1: 4-7 God confirmed the salvation of many with an abundance of gifts. This is the only gentile church that God provided a witness to having a lot of true believers.

Paul stayed a year and half teaching in the church. One of a few that he spent so much time at. He also visited the church 2 maybe 3 times.

1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles — that a man has his father's wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner — not even to eat with such a person. NKJV

My first question is: with so many true believers, vouched for by God, if they had to repent of all their sins prior to their salvation, why were they “puffed up” (proud) of a brother sleeping with his step mother? If Paul had told them they must repent of all sins to be saved; why would they believe he was saved?

The next question is: How could Paul, who knows more doctrine than anyone today, believe the man was saved if complete repentance was needed for salvation.. We don't know if Paul knew the man or not. He did know the man's sin. This was a sin that even gentiles looked down on. He recommended a solution that could only apply if the man was to a Christian.

If one must repent of all sins prior to salvation Paul was not aware of that requirement. All the believers at Corinth were not aware of that requirement either.

bling · Nov 29, 2021

do you know all the ways you can sin as being sin?

fli · Nov 29, 2021

bling said:
do you know all the ways you can sin as being sin?

Are you saying ignorance is an excuse?

Acts 15:29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. NKJV

In the first post I said that this church was started after the Jerusalem Church determined what laws had to be observed in the gentile church. Above is their necessary things they suggested that it would be good for the gentiles to do. Paul would have made sure that the Corinthian church knew all laws the Jerusalem Church said was necessary. As you can see sexual immorality is on the list. He would have also told that to all the people he led to salvation. He also would have taught it in the year and a half he was there.

bling · Nov 29, 2021

fli said:
Are you saying ignorance is an excuse?

No, but you automatically at conversion "Know" what all might be a sin and you might sin not really "knowing" you sinned, but later find out it is displeasing to God and not something you want to do again. God judges the heart of the person, so not wanting to sin is extremely important, but really wanting to do that which is please to God is much more important and much easier to do.

fli · Nov 29, 2021

bling said:
No, but you automatically at conversion "Know" what all might be a sin and you might sin not really "knowing" you sinned, but later find out it is displeasing to God and not something you want to do again. God judges the heart of the person, so not wanting to sin is extremely important, but really wanting to do that which is please to God is much more important and much easier to do.

So all the Corinthians who had been converted, some by Paul, decided to brag about the Young and make him proud of what they knew was a sin. Why would he ever repent if they were proud of him? Are you saying that it is ok for others who know it's a sin to not warn a brother in sin? If you read in acts Paul converted some people who were Jews and knew the law. They knew what sin was.

Bruce Leiter · Nov 29, 2021

fli said:
Witness of the Corinthian Church. This church was established after the Jerusalem council's (Acts 15: 6-29) recommendation on what the gentile churches had to obey concerning the law. It was not the first church established after the decision of the Jerusalem church. However, it is the church we know the most about.

Acts 18:9-11 God witnessed that He had many people in Corinth, 1Corinthians 1: 4-7 God confirmed the salvation of many with an abundance of gifts. This is the only gentile church that God provided a witness to having a lot of true believers.

Paul stayed a year and half teaching in the church. One of a few that he spent so much time at. He also visited the church 2 maybe 3 times.

1 Cor 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles — that a man has his father's wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner — not even to eat with such a person. NKJV

My first question is: with so many true believers, vouched for by God, if they had to repent of all their sins prior to their salvation, why were they “puffed up” (proud) of a brother sleeping with his step mother? If Paul had told them they must repent of all sins to be saved; why would they believe he was saved?

The next question is: How could Paul, who knows more doctrine than anyone today, believe the man was saved if complete repentance was needed for salvation.. We don't know if Paul knew the man or not. He did know the man's sin. This was a sin that even gentiles looked down on. He recommended a solution that could only apply if the man was to a Christian.

If one must repent of all sins prior to salvation Paul was not aware of that requirement. All the believers at Corinth were not aware of that requirement either.

It almost seems that you think when we repent of all our sins when God saves us, we are rid of all of them. That's not true. We still have sinful "blindspots" and sins that have to be overcome after we are saved. It is just that God our Judge declares us right with him and not-guilty when we first believe. Sins remain in our sinful natures, which the new natures that he gives us gradually begin to dominate the old ones the rest of our lives as he empowers us to pray and read his Word to overcome that part of our nature. This was true of the Corinthians and is true of all believers.

fli · Nov 30, 2021

Bruce Leiter said:
It almost seems that you think when we repent of all our sins when God saves us, we are rid of all of them. That's not true. We still have sinful "blindspots" and sins that have to be overcome after we are saved. It is just that God our Judge declares us right with him and not-guilty when we first believe. Sins remain in our sinful natures, which the new natures that he gives us gradually begin to dominate the old ones the rest of our lives as he empowers us to pray and read his Word to overcome that part of our nature. This was true of the Corinthians and is true of all believers.

I haven't said to much about the young man knowing it was a sin. I have said that the Church as a whole should have known especially the messianic Jews. I'm sure some of those messianic Jews were aware of the Ezekiel watchman scriptures. 1 Corinthians 1:5 – 7 The Church was not lacking in any gift. Some of the gifts should give that person a knowledge of sin.

1 Cor 12:8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. NKJV

Eph 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, NKJV

They came short in no gift by 1 Corinthians 1: 7. I doubt if they had an apostle but surely someone in their Church had at least one of the spiritual knowledge gifts.

Those who believe in full repentance say that one does not have saving faith until the repentance is displayed in ones actions. The young man was not displaying repentance of sexual immorality.The church was not helping the man by boasting of his deed, According to Paul, who was living in that age, even gentiles did not practice that kind of sexual immorality. If the unsaved population looked down on his sin you would think that the man would have a clue that his actions were inappropriate.

I have not said that we have to repent of all sins to be saved. To make it clear I believe that we do not have to repent of all sins to be saved. And the witness of the Corinthian church is that repentance of all sin is not a requirement for salvation. Believe in Jesus and be saved.

fli · Dec 1, 2021

It doesn't make any difference what he knew or did not know. Complete repentance is not needed.

Acts 5:29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: "We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. NKJV

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." NKJV

The word translated “give” in verse 31 of chapter 5 is the same word translated “grant” in verse 18 chapter 11. God gives repentance to all who believe in Jesus.

1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. NKJV

The man was in Jesus and in Him is no sin.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. NKJV

Yet at the same time John says if we claim to have no sin we are a liar. It seems as though John has made 2 statements that cannot be reconciled. How can we lie if we claim to be without sin and at the same time be in Jesus where there is no sin.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,And whose sins are covered;8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV

The only sin that counts is the sin God imputes to people. While in Jesus we sin but God does not impute any sin to us. If God does not impute sin to us we are without sin.

The reason repentance is not needed for salvation is because God gives or grants repentance. After that we need to walk in the Spirit for God to be pleased with us. As can be seen from 1Corinthians God gives us time to learn and grow in Jesus. We need to start repenting after we receive Jesus and walk in the Spirit to live physically.

fli · Dec 3, 2021

Witness of the Corinthian church.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 12 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. NKJV

Paul laid the foundation for the Corinthian church. They could build on that foundation with the materials they choose. Wood and such are bad works. Gold and such good works. If they build with the burnable material those works will not follow them into heaven. If they build with precious material it will survive.

1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. 20 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you. NKJV

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

We know that some of the Corinthians had died under discipline disrespecting the Lords supper. They were disrespecting the blood and body of Christ. They were arguing with each other during communion. Some were getting drunk and eating all the bread. As a result some got nothing.

They resisted God in that they did not repent. You cannot discipline someone without telling them what they are doing wrong and what behavior to change.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. NKJV

The people who died under discipline were sanctified and justified by the Holy Spirit. Yet they were revilers, drunkards, gluttons and more. They were carnally mind3ed and could not please God. To be carnally minded is death. They died physically and their spirit went to heaven.

The works they built on the foundation of Christ was some of the above. Paul states that the above will not inherit the kingdom of God. Therefore those works were burnt off. Those that did those things got into heaven smelling of smoke.

The Holy Spirit that sanctified them did not cause that type of behavior. They were ungodly prior to justification. They continued to behaved ungodly after justification. They had faith without works. That faith got them into heaven.

fli · Dec 4, 2021

So how does this discipline work?

The minds of the Corinthians who were disrespecting the blood and body of Christ was set on things of the flesh. Christians living to the flesh cannot please God.

John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. NKJV

The Father is the vine dresser. That means that He trims the vine to make it more productive.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. NKJV

Jesus is our advocate. They work together to discipline us as necessary.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. NKJV

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

We know that they had the Spirit of Jesus. Paul stated that they were being disciplined by the Lord. If the Lord does it the way God perfected Job then:

First they take away things we value. Next they would take away things we love and cherish. Next they take away our health. Last from Corinthians they take our life (They went to sleep under discipline).

Romans 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. NKJV

From Romans that means the Father's Spirit has departed.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. NKJV

From James we know that the body without the Spirit is dead. From Romans we know a Christian's body id dead if it does not have the Spirit of the Father.

Paul was describing Christians not walking in the Spirit. If a Christian is not walking in the Spirit they are not producing fruit. They have no works. James says that faith without works is dead. We know those Corinthians who died disrespecting the Lord's supper had no works.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. NKJV

Without saving faith they would not have been admitted into heaven.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. NKJV

In heaven they are with the Lord. Our hope in in Jesus. Once we are in heaven Jesus welcomes us home.

Romans 8:24- For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? NKJV

We see Jesus and our hope is fulfilled. Faith has done it's work. Our faith dies. And faith without works is dead.

fli · Dec 8, 2021

'Continuing witness of the Corinthian church.

2 Corinthians 12:19 Again, do you think that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But we do all things, beloved, for your edification. 20 For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults; 21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced. NKJV

There are still some in Corinth Paul is still worried about.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbur'sts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. NKJV

Since Paul is warning the Galatians of some of the same some of them have the same problems. In other words people in both churches are in the flesh and not in the Spirit. Discipline is coming. The discipline will result in physical death unless they repent.

But doesn't Paul say if someone practices those things they will not get into heaven? Yes, that's true.

Romans 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. NKJV

Paul says that the old Saul of the flesh was still inside the new Paul. Saul desires to be fed with things that pleases the flesh which is what Saul practiced.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. NKJV

Paul agrees that God's law is good and wants to serve God. Paul walks in the Spirit. Because Paul walks in the Spirit God fulfills the law of sin and death in him. Paul will continue to live physically as long as he brings glory to God. Saul, the man of flesh that practices sin, will not pass the test for heaven. Saul will not survive Paul's physical death. Paul, the spiritual man, passes the test. Paul gets into heaven.

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV

There is deadly danger if we feed the flesh.

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Witness of the Corinthian Church

fli

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bling

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Bruce Leiter

A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love

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