Responding to the 'closed canon' argument against special revelations and sign gifts?

Guojing said:

No, I don't, but Jesus was not speaking to me in Mark 16:16-19. The gospel of the kingdom was still a valid gospel during that time, and that gospel was not for the gentiles (Matthew 10:5-7) until the nation of Israel repent and accept Christ, which they never did.

As Oscar has reminded me, this forum is for people who believe signs are still for today, so let's leave it as that.

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Wow, what else can I say.

Guojing said:

No, I don't, but Jesus was not speaking to me in Mark 16:16-19. The gospel of the kingdom was still a valid gospel during that time, and that gospel was not for the gentiles (Matthew 10:5-7) until the nation of Israel repent and accept Christ, which they never did.

As Oscar has reminded me, this forum is for people who believe signs are still for today, so let's leave it as that.

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Wow. At this point this is just coming across as an unhealthy obsession.

topher694 said:

Wow. At this point this is just coming across as an unhealthy obsession.

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If you disagree with my reasoning, feel free to explain otherwise

1. how you understand the context of Mark 16:16-19,
2. who was it spoken to, and
3. how would they understand what Jesus was saying to them.

Francis Drake said:

Wow, what else can I say.

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If you disagree with my reasoning, feel free to explain otherwise

1. how you understand the context of Mark 16:16-19,
2. who was it spoken to, and
3. how would they understand what Jesus was saying to them.

Guojing said:

If you disagree with my reasoning, feel free to explain otherwise

1. how you understand the context of Mark 16:16-19,
2. who was it spoken to, and
3. how would they understand what Jesus was saying to them.

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Why in the world would I do that? What would be the point? You don't listen, you've shown no desire to learn, it appears your only desire is to prove you are right. Not teachable.

topher694 said:

Why in the world would I do that? What would be the point? You don't listen, you've shown no desire to learn, it appears your only desire is to prove you are right. Not teachable.

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I participate in Christian discussions, not to change other people's minds because that is beyond my control.

Rather, I like to understand how other people view the same scripture differently, so I am respecting you by asking you to share your view.

But if you choose not to share, I am fine too. Thanks.

Guojing said:

I participate in Christian discussions, not to change other people's minds because that is beyond my control.

Rather, I like to understand how other people view the same scripture differently, so I am respecting you by asking you to share your view.

But if you choose not to share, I am fine too. Thanks.

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Ignoring what others say and repeating your point over and over and over isn't a discussion.

topher694 said:

Ignoring what others say and repeating your point over and over and over isn't a discussion.

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Please link the post where you already gave your view on my question on Mark 16:16-19.

Guojing said:

Please link the post where you already gave your view on my question on Mark 16:16-19.

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Are you for real right now? I JUST said, why would I do that? Like I said, unhealthy obsession.

topher694 said:

Are you for real right now? I JUST said, why would I do that? Like I said, unhealthy obsession.

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Alright then, just want to clarify what you said in that post.

Funny to watch how wrongful ideas can eventually rule a person.

Guojing said:

If you disagree with my reasoning, feel free to explain otherwise

1. how you understand the context of Mark 16:16-19,
2. who was it spoken to, and
3. how would they understand what Jesus was saying to them.

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As @topher694 says, there's little point in replying to you, because you have no interest in any other opinion, nor do you engage with the evidence.
The context of the last part of Mark16 is the unbelief of the disciples when faced with the evidence. 14Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

So my friend, where would you be on the scale of unbelief, given you reject the scriptures and reject the evidence of those who walk today in those same commands?

But, for the gospel's sake, I shall attempt to answer your points.
1. Context = preaching the gospel
2. Spoken to the disciples
3. Although still limited by their unbelief, the disciples would understand the words just as Jesus commanded them, go into the world and preach the gospel to all mankind and watch for the signs that would follow those they preached to.

So yes, the command was given to the disciples, but it concerned the whole world.

Also, Mark16 has to be taken in conjunction with what Jesus said in the other gospels, notably
Matt28v18And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
As can be seen here, the disciples were commanded to make further disciples of all nations, and being disciples, the same command would guide them, ie, evidence of casting out demons and speaking in tongues.
Exactly as we still see today among those who believe!

Francis Drake said:

As @topher694 says, there's little point in replying to you, because you have no interest in any other opinion, nor do you engage with the evidence.
The context of the last part of Mark16 is the unbelief of the disciples when faced with the evidence. 14Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

So my friend, where would you be on the scale of unbelief, given you reject the scriptures and reject the evidence of those who walk today in those same commands?

But, for the gospel's sake, I shall attempt to answer your points.
1. Context = preaching the gospel
2. Spoken to the disciples
3. Although still limited by their unbelief, the disciples would understand the words just as Jesus commanded them, go into the world and preach the gospel to all mankind and watch for the signs that would follow those they preached to.

So yes, the command was given to the disciples, but it concerned the whole world.

Also, Mark16 has to be taken in conjunction with what Jesus said in the other gospels, notably
Matt28v18And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
As can be seen here, the disciples were commanded to make further disciples of all nations, and being disciples, the same command would guide them, ie, evidence of casting out demons and speaking in tongues.
Exactly as we still see today among those who believe!

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So when the 11 heard Matthew 28:20, do you think they would also think the command that Jesus gave in Matthew 10:5, is part of the "observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"?

Guojing said:

So when the 11 heard Matthew 28:20, do you think they would also think the command that Jesus gave in Matthew 10:5, is part of the "observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"?

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You are now being silly.
The initial and primary call was to the whole house of Israel, but although individuals received it, Israel rejected it nationally, and then killed him.
Even if you try to obfuscate the truth, the disciples grasped it.

Guojing said:

So when the 11 heard Matthew 28:20, do you think they would also think the command that Jesus gave in Matthew 10:5, is part of the "observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"?

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I agree with Francis, this is very silly. There is a difference between a general calling and specific directions that we all (or apparently most of us) intuitively understand.

Say there is a minister who is called to be an Evangelist that travels the nation preaching and teaching. If he is visiting your town and you give him directions (i.e. where to go, where not to go) to place he is specifically going to minister that evening, that doesn't negate or limit the overall general calling he has an Evangelist to the nation. It is simply specific instructions on how to get where he is going at that moment. Again, in our everyday lives we all understand this intuitively, creating a different set of rules for the Bible is silly and unhealthy.

Francis Drake said:

You are now being silly.
The initial and primary call was to the whole house of Israel, but although individuals received it, Israel rejected it nationally, and then killed him.
Even if you try to obfuscate the truth, the disciples grasped it.

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When you say Israel rejected it nationally, would you say that happen at the cross?

I am not trying to obfuscate anything, I am just curious to know how you view the timeline of scripture.

You can easily state your view without making any personal remarks about the person asking the question.

topher694 said:

I agree with Francis, this is very silly. There is a difference between a general calling and specific directions that we all (or apparently most of us) intuitively understand.

Say there is a minister who is called to be an Evangelist that travels the nation preaching and teaching. If he is visiting your town and you give him directions (i.e. where to go, where not to go) to place he is specifically going to minister that evening, that doesn't negate or limit the overall general calling he has an Evangelist to the nation. It is simply specific instructions on how to get where he is going at that moment. Again, in our everyday lives we all understand this intuitively, creating a different set of rules for the Bible is silly and unhealthy.

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The question I asked was very simple.

Matthew 28:20, Jesus instructed the 12 to teach others to obey everything he commanded them.

Matthew 10:5 is an example of one such commandment.

So when the 11 heard Jesus said Matthew 28:20, is it quite obvious that they would be aware of Matthew 10:5?

That explains Peter's point to Cornelius in Acts 10:28, and why the Jewish believers criticized him in Acts 11:1-3.

Guojing said:

The question I asked was very simple.

Matthew 28:20, Jesus instructed the 12 to teach others to obey everything he commanded them.

Matthew 10:5 is an example of one such commandment.

So when the 11 heard Jesus said Matthew 28:20, is it quite obvious that they would be aware of Matthew 10:5?

That explains Peter's point to Cornelius in Acts 10:28, and why the Jewish believers criticized him in Acts 11:1-3.

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Once again you quote what I wrote, but act like you didn't even read it. Why quote me if you are going to completely ignore what I said?

topher694 said:

Once again you quote what I wrote, but act like you didn't even read it. Why quote me if you are going to completely ignore what I said?

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Because you did not understand what I was asking. Your reply is irrelevant to my point. For one thing, you did not use any scripture.

I am being patient with you by elaborating on my original question. At least Francis's point has some relevance to my question.

Guojing said:

Because you did not understand what I was asking. Your reply is irrelevant to my point. For one thing, you did not use any scripture.

I am being patient with you by elaborating on my original question. At least Francis's point has some relevance to my question.

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I answered YOUR question by giving context for the scriptures YOU provided and you completely disregarded it. This is exactly what I was talking about before. Unhealthy obsession makes teaching or discussion impossible.