get your hands on book called Great Contoversy of go on line, pdf, for it, I am sure you will enjoy it
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The Mark - Tattoo or Chip?
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get your hands on book called Great Contoversy of go on line, pdf, for it, I am sure you will enjoy it
Timtofly
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Those under the alter signify the whole church.
Those beheaded during Satan's 42 months, are those who reign on earth with Christ.
The alter is being in Paradise. The "Souls under the alter" is symbolic. The 42 months and being beheaded is literal.
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Timtofly
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Daniel 12:7 is roughly 3.5 times from Daniel to the end.
From Daniel to Christ was 500 years. That is the half of a time. It has almost been 2000 years since Christ. That is the times. That leaves 1000 years left. However the last 1000 years is ruled by Jesus Christ from Jerusalem.
From Daniel to the GWT judgment will be 3500 years.
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There are two identifiable "marks" in Revelation.
The sealing of the 144,000 jews is accomplished by a mark in the forehead in parallel fashion to the MARK of the beast in the forehead. (see Rev. 9:4 and Rev. 7:2-8 and Rev 14:1). (NOTE: futurists are never consistent on this: if one is physical-literal then shouldn't both MARKS should be seen as physical-literal? Yet just ask a futurist who is the "computer chip manufacturer" today who is producing the "Mark of God," and they have no answer. However, they could speculate all day and night on which technology company is in cahoots with satan to produce his computer implant.)
John didn't have computer chips in mind at all when he wrote the passage. Rather, as in so many other parts of Revelation, he was quoting the Old Testament. The following passages should be carefully examined when discussing "the mark on the forehead or hand" that marks people for doom or salvation:
Ez. Chapter 9 -- angels mark people for God's destruction of Jerusalem in 6th Century B.C.
Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9 -- God's marks commanded to be upon the head and hands of his people to show their faithfulness
John's notions in his vision are related to Old Testament concepts -- not modern day conjectures that the MARK of the beast is to be thought of as a some computer product.
The sealing of the 144,000 jews is accomplished by a mark in the forehead in parallel fashion to the MARK of the beast in the forehead. (see Rev. 9:4 and Rev. 7:2-8 and Rev 14:1). (NOTE: futurists are never consistent on this: if one is physical-literal then shouldn't both MARKS should be seen as physical-literal? Yet just ask a futurist who is the "computer chip manufacturer" today who is producing the "Mark of God," and they have no answer. However, they could speculate all day and night on which technology company is in cahoots with satan to produce his computer implant.)
John didn't have computer chips in mind at all when he wrote the passage. Rather, as in so many other parts of Revelation, he was quoting the Old Testament. The following passages should be carefully examined when discussing "the mark on the forehead or hand" that marks people for doom or salvation:
Ez. Chapter 9 -- angels mark people for God's destruction of Jerusalem in 6th Century B.C.
Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9 -- God's marks commanded to be upon the head and hands of his people to show their faithfulness
John's notions in his vision are related to Old Testament concepts -- not modern day conjectures that the MARK of the beast is to be thought of as a some computer product.
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If we are coming back with Jesus to reign a thousand years how could we do so if we do not rise first to meet him in the air? In which the dead in Christ will rise first? And such events happen as a thief in the night? I believe Christ will will reign a thousand years in the old Jerusalem and a new Jerusalem will come with the new heavens and new earth.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and ahall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2
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John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Where did Jesus go
Where is Jesus preparng a place for us
Where is Jesus coming from
Where is Jesus now
Answer to all is Heaven
When he comes to get us we go to heaven with him to a place that he has prepared for us and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Hebrews 12:22
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
,
Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven
Revelation 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
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alertandawake
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A very good question. And this is the guts of it.
An employer or business will have to be able to verify in one way or another said person has been "marked" or "identified".
You can have something hidden from the naked eye, but with the right equipment, can still be seen.
I cannot understand why so many people cannot accept the mark of the beast is something literal and physical. If a person goes into a shop to by something, that means they have to travel to the shops, go inside and buy what they need. There is nothing symbolic about this this. If I go to the shops and buy a cup of coffee, that is literally what I am doing.
A person goes into the shops, it stands to reason the employer or employee asks the customer for their mark before they can conduct any kind of business. The customer will have to show evidence in one way or another. It is logical.
So to those who think the mark of the beast is spiritual and not literal, then how can a shop keeper verify said person has been marked?
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RFID has been around for decades. They are a radio frequency such as has been in use for decades. Our food is scanned at grocery store, our animals are implanted the credit cards in our wallet or purse can be scanned by clever thieves.
Professor Kevin Warwick, director of cybernetics at the University of Reading in the U.K., became the first human to host a microchip on Aug. 24, 1998. A decade later, the first commercial applications began to surface. More
New developments in data recording make it possible to access a credit card's data without swiping it through a point-of-sale terminal. These contactless cards incorporate radio frequency ID tags that a merchant can read at a distance with a scanner. The same RFID technology provides the basis for toll-pass cards that register each time you drive by a highway payment point and employee badges that unlock gates and doors when you wave them in front of a scanning device. Inside your RFID-enabled credit card, a tiny radio antenna draws credit data from a microchip and makes it available to a purchase terminal. The convenience these cards offer comes with a built-in negative. With a pocket-sized radio frequency scanner that can cost less than $100 or a smartphone equipped with near field communications capabilities, thieves can obtain the data from a credit card right through your wallet and purse, providing they stand close enough to you for a sensor to register the information. Early generation credit cards with RFID tags encode the card information necessary to make a large purchase, unlike newer cards, which minimize their scanner-readable data. More
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Timtofly
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That is after the 1000 years. NJ is still considered Paradise until the GWT. Not from Paradise, from Jerusalem on earth.
We are talking about Revelation 20, not Revelation 21. The mark appears during the 42 months prior to the 1000 year reign. The 1000 year reign is prior to the GWT. The GWT is prior to the NHNE, and the New Jerusalem.
Christ is currently reigning in Paradise over the earth. At the Second Coming the Prince of Daniel 9 will reign on the earth.
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Timtofly
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God will be placing the mark, because that is the point one's name is removed from the Lamb's book of life. One will have to remove their head, to prevent the mark and to remain in the Lamb's book of life. That is the only act of faith, as the church is in Paradise during this time and not even on the earth. That is why it is future. It was not in the first century, because the church has gone on non stop since the Cross. 70AD had nothing to do with the church at all.
The Second Coming is the final role call of the church, not necessarily about Israel. Yet the Second Coming will complete the church, and Israel will be front and center again. But only as harvested souls, to live on earth during the Millennium, separate from the church in Paradise.
The Second Coming and following final harvest is the end of Adam's flesh and blood. All humanity will die. As Paul claims only the redeemed alive at the time will be changed. They will die out of Adam's flesh and blood in mid-air. The rapture is an instant death and resurrection. There will be no bodies to bury, because no one left on earth to bury Adam's dead flesh.
During the Trumpets and Thunders, the angels will be removing the souls. And it will be known, because no spiritual blindness will remain. People will certainly know who decides to worship Satan and whose soul is harvested by angels.
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Timtofly
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Jesus went away and created in Genesis 1. The Garden of Eden became Paradise in Heaven.
In John 1, John said the Word became flesh. In Revelation 13, John said the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The Lamb became the Word.
From God's perspective the Lamb and Word always existed. From our perspective, Jesus lived on earth in the first century. Jesus appeared to Abraham. Jesus will come again to recieve the church. The Second Coming is still future. The church is still a work in progress.
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And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24
Three Jerusalems….
1. Pre-Roman 70AD sack
2. Post-1967 restoration - Are the times of the Gentiles now fulfilled?
3. Post- Millennial New Jerusalem
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. - Revelation 21:1-2
Three Jerusalems….
1. Pre-Roman 70AD sack
2. Post-1967 restoration - Are the times of the Gentiles now fulfilled?
3. Post- Millennial New Jerusalem
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. - Revelation 21:1-2
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What mark (or lack thereof) will prevent me from Buying a gallon of milk from my farmer neighbor using the dozen eggs from my chickens as payment?
The text is clear. It is ALL buying and selling... not just shops.
Cryptocurrency throws a huge wrench in this idea.
The innovation of Bitcoin and other "peer to peer" currency has rendered any future "mark of the beast" wholly ineffectual and powerless to prevent buying and selling.
Also, Gold and Silver will forever be "traded" and used as currency, whether or not a person has a tattoo or microchip imbedded in them. a 21 century "mark" will be powerless to prevent it.
If you don't control the currency, you can't control the trade.
No one person controls Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc...nor can any one person ever control (or require) it. Crypto Currency = Bartering, and as long as there is bartering, we have an unimpeachable antidote to the successful implementation of a 21st century "Mark of the Beast" requirement to buy and sell.
Ethereum. The vaccine against the MOB
What is Ethereum? | ethereum.org
“No government or company has control over Ethereum. This decentralization makes it nearly impossible for anyone to stop you from receiving payments or using services on Ethereum.”
“You don't need to provide all your personal details to use an Ethereum app. Ethereum is building an economy based on value, not surveillance.”
“Ethereum allows you to move money, or make agreements, directly with someone else. You don't need to go through intermediary companies.” [or Governments]
Decentralized, peer to peer currency/financing/commerce/lending/borrowing that no one company, government or person can control.
Sorry Anti-Christ, your mark of the beast is useless here in the 21st century. It has been rendered powerless.
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And Human beings will be rendering Blood animal sacrifices directly at His feet for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him, as Ezekiel 38-40 Says?
Really?
Redemption goes Backwards in the Millennium?
The once for all sacrifice of Christ on the Cross is rendered null and void in the Millennium?
Really?
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alertandawake
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Have you checked what the greek word is for "buy" and its meanings in english? If not then I suggest you go and have a look at Strong's G59 - agorazō and have a look at the Outline of Biblical Usage as listed on Blueletterbible website. Because looking at the greek meanings and its usage, one has to consider what is actual context?
The question remains does the English translation match exactly as to how it is understood in the source material?
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Revelation 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed G59 us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Revelation 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed G59 from the earth.
Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed G59 from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought G59 them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
1 Corinthians 7:23
Ye are bought G59 with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
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alertandawake
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parousia70
With respect, your above post only shows alternative English words used in reference to Strong's G59 - agorazō. As is common when looking at translations, there can be multiple words that can be used in a translation in reference to the word being translated.
However, when one does there research, there are times where a word for word translation is just not possible.
And yet still the question remains, is the the translation concerning the mark of the beast in what we have in English, does it match the source material? Considering one word in the original language could have multiple meanings in the target language, then this obviously needs to be looked at.
With respect, your above post only shows alternative English words used in reference to Strong's G59 - agorazō. As is common when looking at translations, there can be multiple words that can be used in a translation in reference to the word being translated.
However, when one does there research, there are times where a word for word translation is just not possible.
And yet still the question remains, is the the translation concerning the mark of the beast in what we have in English, does it match the source material? Considering one word in the original language could have multiple meanings in the target language, then this obviously needs to be looked at.
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It’s funny my wife and I were just discussing this yesterday. Something that jumped out at me was the amount of attention people put on the mark. There are 3 things which result in someone being able to buy or sell.
- Having the mark, OR
- the name of the beast, OR
- the number of his name.
Now Despite your understanding of what the mark is, it’s clear you won’t need it if you take the name of the beast (like the opposite of taking the name of Christ), or his number. So there will be at least two groups of people, those who willingly/knowingly take the name of the beast, and those who don’t want to call themselves by that name but will accept a mark that the beast authorizes to be able to buy and sell, a mark of the beasts authority.
So it’s less important to know what the mark is and more important to know who the beast is AND who is giving people this mark. It’s not the first beast from the sea. It is the second beast from the earth who deceives people into worshiping an image of the first beast that give people this mark.
When you find a group restricting access to the economy for not worshiping a certain way you will find your earth beast and realize who the sea beast is and those who are called by his name.
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alertandawake
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It is possible that these 3 references could be alternate descriptions all referring to the same thing.
However the number of the beast needs to be investigated further, because there is an old manuscript (not sure how many there are) that have it as 616 (chi, iota, sigma). So my question is why is it different compared to the other manuscripts?
Also, the greek word for name Strong's G3686 - onoma, which can refer to authority, character.
So if looking at the mark in context, if one needs it to engage in commerce, then it stands to reason the person who has that mark is allowed or has permission to engage in such activities.
No matter which way one looks at it, in order to conduct business, each party will have to be able to show that they are allowed to do business with each other. Some sort of verification system has to be put in place.
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