Ok this is confusing

Neostarwcc

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
 

AK1982

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He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does.

Sanctification is the work of God which involves our cooperation.

Romans 15:16 - "... sanctified by the Holy Spirit"
Romans 8:13 - "...but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live"
 
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Hammster

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
Link? I can’t comment without hearing what he said.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Sanctification is the work of God which involves our cooperation.

Romans 15:16 - "... sanctified by the Holy Spirit"
Romans 8:13 - "...but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live"

Could you be more specific? Like, how do we cooperate and know that what we are doing is from God and will lead to our sanctification? I always thought it was God that finished what he started and God that determined the events of our lives.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
It depends on your idea of sanctification. This is my understanding:
1 Corinthian 1:
…29so that no one may boast in His presence. 30It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God: our righteousness, sanctification and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”…

So Lord Jesus is Wisdom and wisdom includes sanctification. And holiness. And righteousness. So we have it all already in Christ. Sorry Mac, I don't agree. However.............

All that we have in Christ is ours potentially. It has to be worked out in practice. If we are truly born again, Lord Jesus will lead us and guide us into maturity. But it is not automatic. The first step is complete consecration, when our life passes out of our hands and into the complete control of the Lord Jesus. That is a decision of our will. From then on, the Lord makes it His business to deliver us from all that hinders our walk with Him. It is never complete in this lifetime. Progress depends on our willingness to cooperate with the Lord. Very often, we have an attachment that is a hindrance. For men, it is often their career. It may be a possession, a fancy car that is his pride and joy. That is a place reserved for God, not things! For women, it can be their children. Or family, friends or other things that are more important to us than God's will.

Christians must get to know God. That is not automatic. You have to spend time in prayer and study of God's word. If you will be diligent, God will bless you and lead you in His ways. It will be hard at times. We are way too reliant on ourselves. Our failures prove that we cannot please god by our own efforts.

We must learn two things: who Christ is in us and who we are in Him. There is a place the Bible calls the knowledge of the truth. When you reach that place, you may be shaken but nothing can bring you down. We should all seek God to bring us there.
 
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disciple Clint

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
Sanctification is done by the Holy Spirit who is progressively filling us and causing us to think from His perspective.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
Unless one is filled with the Holy Spirit the alternative is human effort. It is unfortunate that someone works with head knowledge only and ignores the heart where He has made His Home in us.
Blessings
 
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Hammster

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
I watched the video. I’m not exactly sure how you arrived at this conclusion because I think he’s teaching the opposite. There are works of obedience (working out your salvation) but that’s because of sanctification (God at work in you).
 
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com7fy8

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He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does.
Well, first we might consider what is the Biblical outcome of sanctification >

"But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Corinthians 3:18)

Therefore, I would offer that our Biblical sanctification process changes us into the image of Jesus. And certainly we do not make this happen, ourselves, but this is done "just as by the Spirit of the Lord."

And this is what God wants > He has predestined this for us > Romans 8:29 > so certainly God is committed to this in us. Plus, our Apostle Paul says who produces what God wants > Philippians 2:13 >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

And if you read and feed on Hebrews 12:4-14, possibly this will show that our Father is the One who corrects us so we become "partakers of His holiness". By sharing with God in His holiness, I think this is what comes with being sanctified. We do not do this, ourselves, but this comes with sharing with God in His love.

So, in case a person tells you it is up to you to make yourself holy, this sort of an idea could help to keep people away from personally submitting to God and personally sharing with Him in His own love.

So, make sure if Mr. Armstrong really means this, before you spread things about what he has said, please.

In any case, Romans 5:5 shows that our Father does share His own love with us who are His children.

And Hebrews 12:4-14, to me, means it is wise to actively seek our Father, then, for how He is able to personally correct us so we share with Him in His holiness in His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness".

So, in case someone tells you that sanctification is something you do with yourself, possibly the person saying such a thing has not understood and experienced how personal our Father desires to be with each of us who are His children.

And in case someone does not believe Paul, Jesus Himself says we need to be "poor in spirit", "meek", "merciful", and "pure in heart" > Matthew chapter five. And this is how Jesus is. So, Jesus Himself says we need to become how He is, I would say. And certainly this is the Biblical meaning of being holy, and not how we can get ourselves to become.

Even if any person thinks we need to control our own actions, I understand that Philippians 2:13 means how God in us brings us to will and do whatever He really desires. So, all His will is meant to be done in sharing with Him, in submission to how He constantly rules us in His own peace > Colossians 3:15. So we need to never go on "time out" from God :)

But you say he has an argument.

So . . . in another post, I hope to deal with his argument.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I watched the video. I’m not exactly sure how you arrived at this conclusion because I think he’s teaching the opposite. There are works of obedience (working out your salvation) but that’s because of sanctification (God at work in you).
That's good to hear !
 
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com7fy8

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He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands.
Well, if he says it is a lie to say God sanctifies us, he is not stating just an opinion, I would say. But others in this thread find that you might not understand what he really means.

So, in any case, why would a lot of commands mean we have to sanctify our own selves? I understand that if God commands us to be holy, this could be taken to mean we make ourselves holy. So, I can see how someone might think it depends on us. And yes God's word says to work out our salvation > Philippians 2:12. But right after this, Paul says God in us has us doing what He wants . . . therefore, possibly, He is the One in us causing us to work out our salvation . . . the way He means this.

In any case, God's word clearly does say that God is the One who works in us to make us how He desires for us to become > Philippians 2:13, with 2 Corinthians 3:18, with how Hebrews 12:4-14 says we need our Father to truly and deeply correct our character so we share with Him in His holiness.

So, then, why are there so many commands, including in the New Testament? Do they have to mean there are things which it is up to us to get our own selves to do?

Well, I consider how Jesus spoke commands . . . to the sea and to demons and unhealed people. But who caused those commands to be done? I offer > Jesus spoke it, and God made the miracle happen. That stormy sea did not make itself become so calm. If Jesus told a person to be healed, the person did not make one's own self be healed.

And we have Isaiah 55:11 >

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
. It shall not return to Me void,
. But it shall accomplish what I please,
. And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 55:11)

This does not say we will get ourselves to do what God's word says, but His words shall do what God wants. And, by the way, God is so more and better than we are; so He is able to understand what His words mean, so better than we can understand what He says. How, ever, could we on our own, then, know what He means so we could do it by ourselves?

Not to mention, even in doing practical things, with God . . . don't we discover ourselves doing things better than we at first thought we would do? After all, God in us can have us doing even simple practical items better . . . more creatively . . . with our Creator :idea:

Plus, our Apostle Paul says God's word "effectively works in you who believe" > see 1 Thessalonians 2:13. So, Isaiah 55:11 says God's word will do all that God desires, and our Apostle Paul says God's word is doing what is effective, in us who are believers.

This is good, how every command and guarantee of God's word is sure to be brought to pass in us . . . the way God means it, so better than we can now understand Him and "try" to make it happen!

But possibly Mr. Armstrong means it is up to us to get ourselves to do practical items. Even so, if God's word says to do something, Isaiah 55:11 says His word "shall accomplish" what He desires, and "it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (in Philippians 2:13)

So, I might need to get to know Mr. Armstrong personally so I could be sure I understand what he really means . . . by seeing how he lives, himself :)

But if I submit to God, I can find out what His word means to Him!
 
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Neostarwcc

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I quoted what he said in the beginning before 5 minutes in but I do see how you arrived at that conclusion. Question. If God is at work in us and always accomplishes his purpose/ brings his work to completion why work out your salvation at all? Isn't it God that works through us that achieves our sanctification or am I misunderstanding something?
 
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eleos1954

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?

God favors love over power. Love is not controlling ... else it would not be love.

Sanctification is the reciprocation of our love toward God. We are sanctified with the help of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) that Jesus gives us. Sanctification means to set a part or to make holy. His Holy Spirit helps us in this process to become more like Christ. This is not a one time event; it’s a life long process (we stumble here and there). The process of sanctifying and purifying us (the works that Jesus does in the believer, and is not of ourselves) ... it is HIM working in us and through us. We are separated from the world. We are in the physical world but not of the world spiritually. Our mind (thinking) changes over time and therefore our actions also change. Our faith increases more and more as He faithfully works in us. Hebrews 12:2

He first loved us and we choose to reciprocate ..... or not.
 
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Hammster

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I quoted what he said in the beginning before 5 minutes in but I do see how you arrived at that conclusion. Question. If God is at work in us and always accomplishes his purpose/ brings his work to completion why work out your salvation at all? Isn't it God that works through us that achieves our sanctification or am I misunderstanding something?
The short answer is obedience.
 
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Clare73

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
I'm not sure you are representing him correctly.
 
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Hammster

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Praise God I like John MacArthur I just don't agree with everything he teaches.
Same here. In this case, I do. The OP misunderstood the video I think.
 
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Mr. M

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
Not just sanctification, but "all things that pertain to life and godliness". 2 Peter 1:3
1 Corinthians 1:
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—
and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—
31 that, as it is written, He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.

To say that this requires our co-operation(?) is an interesting way to express obedience. :)
Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
Hebrews 5:
8
though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
9
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation
to all who obey Him
.

2 Peter 1:
2
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord,
3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through
the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue,
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through
these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in
n the world through lust.
Verse 4 is an excellent description of sanctification here.
 
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fhansen

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I was watching a John MacArthur sermon about Sanctification and in his sermon I got way confused. He stated that sanctification was a work that we do and not what God does. He states in the sermon that it's a complete lie to think that God sanctifies us when the New Testament is loaded with all kinds of commands. I'm confused because I've never heard of such a thing in my life. God is the one in control of everything that comes to pass including our sanctification. Unless... I'm wrong?
Everything that God commands can only be accomplished to the extent that a human being is first of all in a state of union with Him. That is the difference between the old and new covenants: “Apart from Me you can do nothing”. John 15:5

Then many verses make sense in their plain reading:
“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

It’s us alright, but never without grace, without God. So MacArthur is wrong if he believes as you stated.
 
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