Refusing to be vaccinated against Covid-19 is a ’sin’ & anti-vaxxers must spend their life repenting

prodromos said:

Yeah, the present elected leader of the Northern Territory is making Victoria's Premier Dan Andrews look like an amateur.

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rusmeister said:

Hi, and welcome!
I'd suggest that you take the time to read through the thread. Oversimplifications have already been addressed, and most agree that there are nuances to both sides of the argument. IMPORTANT: I restrict the use of "argument" to intelligent disagreement that is interested in arriving at the truth; and use the good old-fashioned English word "quarreling" to refer to disagreements where one or both sides are not interested in hearing the other side. So you certainly don't wish to quarrel, and may or may not wish to argue intelligently, but you DO have an opinion you are taking the trouble to express. But I can understand why some may not be interested if it is not evident that you have considered what those you disagree with have already said here.

We agree with a lot of what you say. I think NO one here would deny that we should strive to prevent suffering and death as far as we are able, and suggesting otherwise would itself be a straw man argument. The journey for the honest majority involves discovering HOW it is that anyone could have the temerity to disagree with them. A refusal or utter lack of desire to discover that is what is called "bigotry", which is essentially thinking "Those that disagree with me are merely stupid or crazy; they cannot possibly have intelligent reasoning (however mistaken) behind their position".

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Joanna-Innokentovna said:

The interactions I have had here over the past three days have destabilized me and I may require hospitalization now, no joke.

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gurneyhalleck1 said:

People who take the 3rd dose of the covid vaccine are doomed and demonic.

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Joanna-Innokentovna said:

I have called no one stupid or crazy. Perhaps I am stupid and crazy. In any case, this forum is not for me, I have discovered, and I wish all of you the best in your enlightened discussions of the pressing issues of our faith and times. The interactions I have had here over the past three days have destabilized me and I may require hospitalization now, no joke.

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gurneyhalleck1 said:

People who take the 3rd dose of the covid vaccine are doomed and demonic.

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Taodeching said:

I thought I felt doomed now and that explains the horns

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ArmyMatt said:

they keep the halo straight

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prodromos said:

I thought it was to keep it from falling off.

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Antoni said:

I would like to thank the moderators for allowing debate on an extremely important issue which is being censored on the internet, namely about whether this vaccine is safe or effective in ending a pandemic.

Respectfully gurney, you don’t have to click on the thread or contribute. I welcome your thoughts but don’t welcome your attempts at stifling debate. This thread is about providing information for people before they make an important decision on their health. A decision which everyone is being forced to make. I am not surprised that some, even many, may not like to hear about what the media is trying to hide. The truth can often times be hard to swallow. But as long as I see dangers and I can warn others, I will, so God help me. He will judge and it’s His judgment I am most concerned about.

In fact there are countless articles I find and don’t post here because I know it can be distressing to people who have already received the jab. So I am sensitive to that and try my best at giving just enough to cause the reader to do their own investigation and research. And I am not saying that people have to put their trust in me. I am a faceless poster on the internet. Rather, I urge others to not so easily put their trust to the talking heads on the tv but rather do their own research.

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gurneyhalleck1 said:

Well, from where I’m standing, this forum is not supposed to be political and most definitely it’s not here as a place to tell people medical advice, diagnose folks, or play internet doctor. In my humble opinion, that seems to be taking place.

No one is trying to stifle debate. I’m merely pointing out that this thread is not only beating a dead horse, it has taken the horse, thrown it into a wood chipper and run over what’s left with a Hummer.

Is TAW a place to spread conspiracy theories (on either side, pro or con)? Are we here so we can scare the bejeemenies out of people? Are we here to send a message of antivaxx to prospective converts? Does this thread further the Gospel or a knowledge of the ancient faith? Call me crazy, but is this what we want newbies to see?

With respect, is your role here to “warn others” about a vaccine? Where do we draw the line with turning an Orthodox forum into a health advice seminar? Should we start talking about diabetes and giving advice? Maybe we could begin an obesity topic or we could get our keto Orthodox to start a Thunderdome grudge match with our vegan Orthodox? Are you also inclined to talk people in here out of smoking? Cigarettes kill far more than this virus. Should we get into conspiracy threads about EMF’s and faraday cages? Where does it stop?

I can honestly tell you I have had PM’s from several people telling me they’re uncomfortable with the way this topic is going and think the thread sucks as well. I’m not saying this in a vacuum.

You tell me I don’t have to contribute here. I’ve felt I should because what is being said in here is anecdotal. If all the negative anecdotes are the only ones being propagated, perhaps a person with positive anecdotes may be permitted the right to share?

I say this respectfully as well, but I find it a tad hard to believe you welcome my thoughts. They haven’t felt too welcomed. And “debate” isn’t really what we come to TAW for imho. This isn’t Bill Buckley vs Gore Vidal.

When you say the “truth” can be hard to hear, I must say that runs in two directions. The fact that I’ve never met anyone out of the hundreds of people I know to suffer any I’ll effects from the vaccine isn’t a welcome anecdote here as far as I see it. Are we going to debate “truth” with a vaccine?

How far will this thread go? Is it worth running posters off? Do we want TAW to be the anti-Moderna sub forum?

TAW used to be very anti-politics. Extremely apolitical. That’s what I found endearing. Perhaps the rules have changed and I missed the memo. TV, music, radio, work, sports, everything is political in 2021. Must TAW be so as well? If I’m trying to “stifle debate” to get TAW to get back to its roots, I guess Im guilty. Call me Reader Stifler.

I say this not as a pure saint either. I’ve made my views abundantly clear on everything from guns to Trump to socialism to taxes, etc. And honestly I shouldn’t have. We need less debate, abs more discussion.

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Antoni said:

For all posters, if you don’t want to read this thread or what is being discussed or reported or posted, than simply do not click on this thread. You can still enjoy TAW and start threads and discuss other things which may be less charged or less ‘political’ or less ‘scary’ or more in line with the “roots” of this forum. The amazing thing is you simply do not have to click on the thread you may not like. No one is forcing you to keep coming to this thread and instead of blaming others for opinions you don’t like to hear, take some responsibility for your actions. If you think this particular thread is vomit, simply stop returning to it. This forum has other things to offer than this topic. Make use of it instead of blaming others.

There does appear however that there are members here who wish to discuss this topic and the reports and developments surrounding it, which is not surprising considering it is the most global and consequential issue of our lifetime, affecting nearly everyone in the entire world and directly impacting the civil liberties of billions of people in a way which is unprecedented.

For all moderators, if you wish to lock this thread or delete this thread, for whatever reason, you of course are free to and it is well within your right.

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rusmeister said:

Hi, Gurney!
Unfortunately, this topic is actively intruding into the Church, whether we discuss it or are allowed to discuss it by unseen controllers or not. TAW could always afford to be apolitical on issues that do not do that. But politics is the attempt to order life on this earth, which DOES affect us, even though our main focus should be on eternity, and we seem to have at least a few threads at the moment dealing with that.
We can avoid politics only as long as the differences are not great enough that it doesn't matter. As long as the issues are only whether we should expand or limit national parks or fund a space shuttle or not, politics don't matter to us in the Church. But if some people think we should wear masks during Divine Liturgy, or that a QR code proving vaccination ought to be required to enter a church (and it need not be anyone here holding such opinions, only that there be such a political demand or threat) then such policies are indeed the affair of members of the Church, and therefore should be discussed by the Church, which includes us. You can't say, "Let's keep politics out of this!", because politics means the conduct of policies which affect us.

There seems to be a consensus here, certainly a majority opinion, which you are a dissenter to, just as those of us who resist the policies ostensibly aimed at covid are dissenters in the public sphere (which may or may not be a majority, but is certainly controlled by people determined to make it seem a majority). It is understandable that those people would PM you, I get it. You continue to see the virus as the main threat and the measures, to a degree, in all fairness to you, justified. Others of us see something else, global domination, as the greater threat; thus, the dissent with the official version of things. Perhaps we both see both threats, and just see one or the other as having more weight.

It could reach a point where heterodox moderators, or even an Orthodox moderator, could use their authority wrongly and forbid polite discussion. You certainly wouldn't like that if the shoe were on the other foot. But for my part, I DO appreciate that you bring your perspective. It does indeed remind and reinforce that there IS real suffering from the virus, though we have that to a degree over here as well. The snapshot you offer helps nuance the picture, so that we can have the clearest view of things that we possibly can. My reaction to what you describe is disgust at the callousness of the people who ordered the virus launched in the first place, and a burning desire to see a "Nuremburg II", with those guilty parties tried and punished (and I can envision only one appropriate punishment for such crimes against humanity) for causing all this out of their lust for power, that is, to see, if possible, earthly justice done. Your reports go into what I see as the truth as a not0unimportant piece of the overall puzzle.

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gurneyhalleck1 said:

Where you’re wrong is I do NOT see the virus as the main threat. If only you weren’t thousands of miles away in Russia and instead here in my home. My wife and I think the vaccine mandates are absurd and intrusive, unconstitutional, and immoral as well as financially untenable for society. I have said here and from the hill tops that I personally want no more vaccine for our family nor do I think it’s warranted in most places. Never did we require a QR code to get into my church and never did we close down at all. I did, however, have a poster in here say my priest was doing the will of Satan kneeling at the harlot of Babylon for having us wear masks back then (no longer). You’re free to disagree with my priest, but such a high level of hurtful hyperbole is beyond the pale. And this thread has been a veritable geyser of such words. I think you’re reading my views poorly. I see a host of threats with COVID being used as a new KGB papers scheme. I can see it as a way to destabilize economies to usher in socialism. I can see a cornucopia of potential dastardly outcomes. I’m not stupid, Rus. However, my point, which is a simple one, is that some people want the shot. Let ‘em. Don’t call them demonic, clueless, and doom them to hell and myocarditis. Not everyone who gets the shot gets an exploding heart. It’s not a guaranteed killer. My own experiences and eyeballs can tell you as much. It’s the over generalizations that I’m tired of. I’m not sure this is helpful.

If you could only hear my wife and I last night and today talking about what a joke this omicron variant is and how shutting down travel with it is pure stupidity. Im more in the consensus than you think. I just think presenting a balanced argument is important and demonic hyperbole and harlots of Babylon are ridiculous.

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