Answering a century-old question on the origins of life

disciple Clint

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Do I take it you can't or won't defend your argument of #42 against my #97?
We are well past that but if you do not want to continue I can accept that you do not want to take on the evidence I provided.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I provided evidence for the existence of God in post #109 feel free to refute anything, just provide footnotes and citations since all the evidence there also has footnotes and citations. I am waiting for your evidence that Miller goes anywhere near establishing a foundation for abiogenesis. what you say in your sig is not evidence, now is it?
You did not provide scientific evidence, you provided a link to a weak source. I doubt if there is any scientific evidence there at all. And my sig gives you the definition of scientific evidence. You set yourself up for a trap and then you fell for it. You proved that you had no scientific evidence for God by not stating a proper test for his existence. And you also in effect admitted to the fact that the Miller Urey experiment does provide scientific evidence for abiogenesis
 
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Subduction Zone

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We are well past that but if you do not want to continue I can accept that you do not want to take on the evidence I provided.
Once again, that is not how it works. You made a claim you need to support it properly when challenged.

Keeping in mind the definition of scientific evidence, what is the best scientific evidence for your beliefs? Remember, if you cannot come up with an observation that meets the criteria of supporting a testable concept it is not scientific evidence.
 
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disciple Clint

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You did not provide scientific evidence, you provided a link to a weak source. I doubt if there is any scientific evidence there at all. And my sig gives you the definition of scientific evidence. You set yourself up for a trap and then you fell for it. You proved that you had no scientific evidence for God by not stating a proper test for his existence. And you also in effect admitted to the fact that the Miller Urey experiment does provide scientific evidence for abiogenesis
Just as I thought, you did not read it yet you reject it. Then without providing any evidence you declare victory. Game over
 
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disciple Clint

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Once again, that is not how it works. You made a claim you need to support it properly when challenged.

Keeping in mind the definition of scientific evidence, what is the best scientific evidence for your beliefs? Remember, if you cannot come up with an observation that meets the criteria of supporting a testable concept it is not scientific evidence.
I can readily see how it works, it is called keeping the other guy on the defensive by challenging him to provide evidence which you then disregard and avoid refuting. Game over
 
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Subduction Zone

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Just as I thought, you did not read it yet you reject it. Then without providing any evidence you declare victory. Game over
I looked at your source and it only had old refuted arguments. None of them were scientific.

You were the one that specified that there was scientific evidence for God. A weak, non scientific link is not evidence. Please be specific.

Once again, keeping in mind the definition of scientific evidence what scientific evidence do you have for God? A link to a weak source does not qualify.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I can readily see how it works, it is called keeping the other guy on the defensive by challenging him to provide evidence which you then disregard and avoid refuting. Game over
No, you lost because you cannot support your claims. This shouldn't be that hard. You claimed to have scientific evidence. Please provide some.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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We are well past that but if you do not want to continue I can accept that you do not want to take on the evidence I provided.
I'll take that as a no.

Present your best argument and we can discuss it. By all means, support it with evidence, but if you don't want to discuss, argue, or debate, I'm not interested.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I can readily see how it works, it is called keeping the other guy on the defensive by challenging him to provide evidence which you then disregard and avoid refuting. Game over
No, you don't even understand the concept of scientific evidence. There is a reason that scientists came up with the definition quoted in my sig. People tend to be dishonest at times. That definition forces people to be honest. You only need to ask yourself two questions.

First, is the concept testable? Can it be refuted? If the answer is yes then we move on to number two. Does the observation support the idea? For abiogenesis and the Miller Urey experiment the answer to both questions was "Yes.". So it is scientific evidence for abiogenesis.

If you want to claim to have scientific evidence for a concept you need to be able to answer" yes" to both of those questions.
 
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Shemjaza

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OK lets give it a test. Review and refute the evidence for God on this site.
Big Book - Credible Catholic
The problems are that they acknowledge that the events, material and conditions that predate the Big Bang are not known and may be unknowable... but then apply the rules and functions within this Universe to a hypothetical multiverse, that is not justifiable.
 
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Frank Robert

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Subduction Zone

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Thanks for the laugh. You are asking to refute a deity with evidence but belief in a deity is not based evidence it is based on faith. There are philosophical arguments for and against deities which if you want to get into I suggest A Tippling Philosopher on Patheos.
Theists often get jealous of the sciences. Beliefs in the sciences have to be evidence based. And that is perhaps the main reason that the sciences are so successful. As a result they feel forced to deny evidence in the sciences, which only means that they are science deniers, and claim your that their beliefs are evidence based too. Though they fail right out of the gate when they do that.

And please note. I did not say that there was scientific evidence against God. I only pointed out the obvious that there is no scientific evidence for God.. That seems to have caused a breakdown.
 
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Frank Robert

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The problems are that they acknowledge that the events, material and conditions that predate the Big Bang are not known and may be unknowable... but then apply the rules and functions within this Universe to a hypothetical multiverse, that is not justifiable.
Its called Theoretical Physics. You may fail to understand its value and think itunjustifiable yet
Theoretical physics is perhaps the highest-impact, lowest-cost area of basic research. The field advances our fundamental understanding of the universe...​
 
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Shemjaza

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Its called Theoretical Physics. You may fail to understand its value and think itunjustifiable yet
Theoretical physics is perhaps the highest-impact, lowest-cost area of basic research. The field advances our fundamental understanding of the universe...​
I don't think you are using a conventional definition of theoretical physics.

Theorising about a multiverse or the origins of the universe are fine... just declaring that principles like time and entropy apply in the same way seems completely unjustified.

Did you read the apologetics link?
 
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Frank Robert

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I don't think you are using a conventional definition of theoretical physics.

Theorising about a multiverse or the origins of the universe are fine... just declaring that principles like time and entropy apply in the same way seems completely unjustified.

Did you read the apologetics link?
Sorry, I didn't read your post carefully and misunderstood it. You are correct.
 
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Estrid

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When it comes to my involvement, I decide how it works. This is a science forum for discussing, debating, and arguing scientific ideas. We can toss books, articles, videos, and courses back and forth, demanding the contents be refuted, until the cows come home, but that's not discussing, debating, or arguing. I'm not going to spend a week refuting some book, I want to discuss, argue, and debate with someone who understands what they're talking about.

If you think you have a good argument that you can defend (i.e. that you understand), from that book or elsewhere, let's hear it.
Aw, whats wrong with a gish gallop.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Aw, whats wrong with a gish gallop.
This isn't even his gish gallop, it's someone else's... :doh:

If he thinks he understands any of the arguments, he should pick one to argue; if he doesn't, what's the point? I could just point him to all the relevant cosmology papers of the last 20 years as a refutation of the BGV theorem, but again, what's the point?
 
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Estrid

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This isn't even his gish gallop, it's someone else's... :doh:

If he thinks he understands any of the arguments, he should pick one to argue; if he doesn't, what's the point? I could just point him to all the relevant cosmology papers of the last 20 years as a refutation of the BGV theorem, but again, what's the point?
Just set two search engines on full auto,
aim them at eachother, and walk away.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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This isn't even his gish gallop, it's someone else's... :doh:

If he thinks he understands any of the arguments, he should pick one to argue; if he doesn't, what's the point? I could just point him to all the relevant cosmology papers of the last 20 years as a refutation of the BGV theorem, but again, what's the point?

That would be to assume that you, indeed, can and have discerned specifically and exactly, and without any relativized subjectivity, the "relevant" cosmology papers.

So, no, I think there's a bit more to doing a Literature Review than simply claiming that you can "just point a person to all the relevant ... papers."

And...and...I think you know this. Which isn't to say that your interlocutor is correct, however. ;)
 
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