Do we need to be "Born again"

Carl Emerson · Dec 1, 2021

John 3:3
Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
John 3:7
Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Jesus says we need this, but...

How do we get it?

How do we know we have it?

What happens if we don't get it?

Is baptism enough... ?

Comments please !!!

Guojing · Dec 1, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
John 3:3
Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:7
Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Jesus says we need this, but...

How do we get it?

How do we know we have it?

What happens if we don't get it?

Is baptism enough... ?

Comments please !!!

Understand who Jesus was speaking to, in his first coming to Earth (Matthew 10:5 , Matthew 15:24).

Its the same reasoning why we don't build an ark, even though God commanded Noah to build one (Genesis 6:14)

Daniel9v9 · Dec 1, 2021

We are born again or born from above (both translations are good and true) by means of God's Word. His Word is received through hearing it, or reading it, or in connection to the waters of Baptism. Our Lord says that we are born of water and the Spirit, which means Baptism, where we truly are baptised into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit — it's not a mere symbol of being baptised into the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

As it's written, whoever believes and is baptised will be saved — that is, we are born again or born from above — but whoever does not believe — that is, whoever rejects our Lord Jesus Christ by their unbelief, will be condemned.

So, Christians are ordinarily saved through Baptism into Christ, but a lack of Baptism does not condemn, for it's unbelief that condemns. What saves is trust in God's promise of salvation, which is received both through His Word and Sacraments. That is, not only do we get to hear the Gospel, or read it, but we even get to receive it tangibly in Baptism and in the body and blood of our Lord. So, Baptism is not something we do for ourselves or for God, but something God does for us. It's His gift for us, for our benefit, comfort, and joy! If we understand Baptism to be anything other than a gift, then we're not properly understanding what it is.

In short, God gives us life as a gift — natural life, and spiritual life — and we can take comfort in and rejoice in God's promise of grace, knowing that God does not lie. If you believe and are baptised, you will be saved. That is God's promise to you.

GoldenKingGaze · Dec 1, 2021

Do babes who die while still infants end up in Limbo because they are not born again?

People must be born again to enter life, but some are born again after they die physically.

d taylor · Dec 2, 2021

To be born again happens when a person trust/believes in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Jesus list two requirements first to be born alive into the world then a person must be born of the Spirit.

People who never had the chance to believe in The Messiah, may be resurrected before/at the start of the millennium and given a chance to believe or to not believe as they live out their life.

The Rapture and the Age of Accountability – Grace Evangelical Society

Daniel9v9 · Dec 2, 2021

GoldenKingGaze said:
Do babes who die while still infants end up in Limbo because they are not born again?

People must be born again to enter life, but some are born again after they die physically.

No, that would be a false and mechanical way of understanding Baptism (and needless to say Limbo does not exist in God's Word). Baptism and faith go together. They're both gifts from God, and they should not be separated, and we should not put one against the other. And although we are all sinners, we do not have to worry about God judging unjustly. No one cares more about life and justice than God, no one loves more than God, no one is more merciful than God, so although we cannot say for certain either way whether God will judge or save some or all infants, we can know that whatever God judges is good. Point being, we can know from Scriptures that God both punishes people, including children (cf. the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the fall of many cities), and loves children, saying "let the little ones come to me". God is both good and righteous at the same time.

Do you mean to say that some people can repent and believe in Jesus after they die?

GoldenKingGaze · Dec 2, 2021

Daniel9v9 said:
No, that would be a false and mechanical way of understanding Baptism (and needless to say Limbo does not exist in God's Word). Baptism and faith go together. They're both gifts from God, and they should not be separated, and we should not put one against the other. And although we are all sinners, we do not have to worry about God judging unjustly. No one cares more about life and justice than God, no one loves more than God, no one is more merciful than God, so although we cannot say for certain either way whether God will judge or save some or all infants, we can know that whatever God judges is good. Point being, we can know from Scriptures that God both punishes people, including children (cf. the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, and the fall of many cities), and loves children, saying "let the little ones come to me". God is both good and righteous at the same time.

Do you mean to say that some people can repent and believe in Jesus after they die?

Yes after they die, many get a second chance. NDE accounts show that many people who I would say are open to grace, gain it as they enter the light of life, Paradise.

And babies are surely open to grace. Their natural destinies are changed by dying.

Sodom and the pre-flood world were destroyed in part, because their culture tortured and corrupted the children in every case. Except Noah and his family.

St_Worm2 · Dec 2, 2021

Hello @Carl Emerson (et al), you may find one of Dr. Spoul's little "Crucial Questions" books called, What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? an interesting read (just 69 pages).

Free to download in Mobi (Kindle) or Epub, or $2.40 in paperback if you prefer (+tax/shipping)

What Does It Mean to Be Born Again?: R.C. Sproul - MOBI eBook, Book | Ligonier Ministries Store

What Does It Mean to Be Born Again?: R.C. Sproul - EPUB eBook, Book | Ligonier Ministries Store

What Does It Mean to Be Born Again?: R.C. Sproul - Paperback, Book | Ligonier Ministries Store

Or at Amazon (free on Kindle/$3.00 for the paperback):

What Does It Mean to Be Born Again? (Crucial Questions): Sproul, R.C.: 9781642890419: Amazon.com: Books

Finally, Dr. Sproul also has a 6-part complimentary teaching series available to watch and/or listen to if you'd prefer, for free right now. Just go here for the first part of this series:

Must I Be Born Again? by R.C. Sproul from Born Again (ligonier.org)

God bless you!

--David

Daniel9v9 · Dec 2, 2021

GoldenKingGaze said:
Yes after they die, many get a second chance. NDE accounts show that many people who I would say are open to grace, gain it as they enter the light of life, Paradise.

And babies are surely open to grace. Their natural destinies are changed by dying.

Sodom and the pre-flood world were destroyed in part, because their culture tortured and corrupted the children in every case. Except Noah and his family.

Can you find any passages in the Bible that promise that those who die will be given a second chance to repent and believe in Jesus? Or can you find any examples of such in the Bible? The reason I ask is because the Bible teaches contrary to this, namely, that those who die in Christ live in Christ, but those who die apart from Christ, will be condemned. For example, consider Luke 16:19-31, or the two thieves on the cross.

God's Word is very clear on that those who reject Christ will be condemned. So any doctrine that promises salvation to unrepentant sinners who have died apart from Christ, or any form of universalism, is quite contrary to the truth that the Holy Spirit has revealed to us through the written Word. There is no repentance after death. The Bible teaches no such thing.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Dec 2, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
John 3:3
Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:7
Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Jesus says we need this, but...

How do we get it?

How do we know we have it?

What happens if we don't get it?

Is baptism enough... ?

Comments please !!!

Read ALL of John 3...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Dec 2, 2021

GoldenKingGaze said:
People must be born again to enter life, but some are born again after they die physically.

You are close to the truth...

GoldenKingGaze · Dec 2, 2021

Daniel9v9 said:
Can you find any passages in the Bible that promise that those who die will be given a second chance to repent and believe in Jesus? Or can you find any examples of such in the Bible? The reason I ask is because the Bible teaches contrary to this, namely, that those who die in Christ live in Christ, but those who die apart from Christ, will be condemned. For example, consider Luke 16:19-31, or the two thieves on the cross.

God's Word is very clear on that those who reject Christ will be condemned. So any doctrine that promises salvation to unrepentant sinners who have died apart from Christ, or any form of universalism, is quite contrary to the truth that the Holy Spirit has revealed to us through the written Word. There is no repentance after death. The Bible teaches no such thing.

God is love, all good and light, He knows all things and is vastly more powerful than all the angels of death. Most zygotes do not get to become fetuses and see the light of day. Do they grow up in Hades prison? It follows that they have life.

In John's letter, he writes that God is love.

Jesus said, to suffer the little children to come unto Him. The Kingdom belongs to them, Luke 18:15-17. KJV
15And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Childlike trust is a key.

1 Timothy 4:10. KJV
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Daniel9v9 · Dec 2, 2021

GoldenKingGaze said:
God is love, all good and light, He knows all things and is vastly more powerful than all the angels of death. Most zygotes do not get to become fetuses and see the light of day. Do they grow up in Hades prison? It follows that they have life.

In John's letter, he writes that God is love.

Jesus said, to suffer the little children to come unto Him. The Kingdom belongs to them, Luke 18:15-17. KJV
15And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. 16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Yes, God is love, but He is also righteous. Where does it say in Scriptures that whoever denies and rejects Christ can repent and believe in Him after they die? Do you see the problem? We have to trust in what God has said through His Word, and reject doctrines that have no command, promise, or example in the Scriptures.

GoldenKingGaze · Dec 2, 2021

Daniel9v9 said:
Yes, God is love, but He is also righteous. Where does it say in Scriptures that whoever denies and rejects Christ can repent and believe in Him after they die? Do you see the problem? We have to trust in what God has said through His Word, and reject doctrines that have no command, promise, or example in the Scriptures.

1 Timothy 4:10. KJV
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

That includes women and children.

Daniel9v9 · Dec 2, 2021

GoldenKingGaze said:
1 Timothy 4:10. KJV
10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Mark 16:16 — "Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Or a more explicit passage in John 3:18 — "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Scriptures are overwhelmingly clear that whoever rejects Christ will be condemned, and that is the truth that we need to believe, teach, and confess. Even in 1 Timothy 4 quoted above, Paul goes on to say, "Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers." — which refers to persisting in the true teaching and faithfully declaring the Gospel. That is, faith comes by hearing and receiving the Gospel.

Whenever we read Scriptures, we should always let clear passages give light to unclear passages, and we should always read in context. Paul is not saying that some will be saved apart from faith, for he even makes a contrast between those who believe and those who have departed from the faith in the verses above.

Again, for emphasis, there are no passages in the Bible that tell us, gives us an example of, or allude to that whoever rejects Christ will or can be granted repentance and faith after death. God's Word teaches the opposite of this throughout the Scriptures. Universalism or anything approaching it is not the Christian faith. It's not a teaching of the Holy Spirit.

St_Worm2 · Dec 2, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
John 3:3
Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Jesus says we need this, but...How do we get it? How do we know we have it? What happens if we don't get it? Is baptism enough... ?

Hello again Carl, Nicodemus asked similar questions to yours of the Lord Jesus, and I found it interesting when I first read John 3 that He gently criticized him (as the "teacher of Israel" .. John 3:9-10) for not already knowing what He meant (about being born again and why it is necessary for eternal life).

I know that it is often said that what was "concealed" in the OT is "revealed" in the New, but in this case, to a certain degree anyway, I believe that the opposite may be true, because God details (in certain ways/with more detail) what He does when He causes someone to be "born again", in OT passages like this one from God Himself.

Ezekiel 36
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.”

So, the need to understand what the Bible is talking about when it speaks of being "born again" / "regenerated" / "quickened" / "made alive", etc., must be extremely important when you consider all that is said about it throughout its pages (in the OT, in the Gospels, in the Epistles of both Paul and Peter .. and by the entirety of the church & the Early Church Fathers, beginning with Clement of Rome in the latter part of the 1st Century, if memory serves, and continuing on to this present day).

Finally, you asked, "do we need to be born again"? My answer is yes, for many reasons, one of them certainly being the fact that we cannot respond to the Gospel in a positive way unless God first regenerates us (makes us alive "spiritually"). If He does not, then we remain in the state that the Apostle Paul describes in verses such as these: Romans 3:10-12; 1 Corinthians 1:18, 2:14.

God bless you!

--David

Ephesians 2
1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature, children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).

.

GoldenKingGaze · Dec 2, 2021

Daniel9v9 said:
Mark 16:16 — "Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Or a more explicit passage in John 3:18 — "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Scriptures are overwhelmingly clear that whoever rejects Christ will be condemned, and that is the truth that we need to believe, teach, and confess. Even in 1 Timothy 4 quoted above, Paul goes on to say, "Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers." — which refers to persisting in the true teaching and faithfully declaring the Gospel. That is, faith comes by hearing and receiving the Gospel.

Whenever we read Scriptures, we should always let clear passages give light to unclear passages, and we should always read in context. Paul is not saying that some will be saved apart from faith, for he even makes a contrast between those who believe and those who have departed from the faith in the verses above.

Again, for emphasis, there are no passages in the Bible that tell us, gives us an example of, or allude to that whoever rejects Christ will or can be granted repentance and faith after death. God's Word teaches the opposite of this throughout the Scriptures. Universalism or anything approaching it is not the Christian faith. It's not a teaching of the Holy Spirit.

There are no, 'clear' and 'unclear' passages of the Bible. There are whole book messages, and within a dozen quotes that project that message of mercy and grace and freedom... such as in Romans, but some people will look for the one or two verses they can quote to condemn people. It spoils the message for some listeners.

In history there were witch hunts, protestant and Catholic clashes, doctrines of demons... and other religious violence, it gave us a bad name and led to popular atheism, and other avoidance of organized religion, so people don't want to have faith and be baptized. Because of conscience and child like hearts.

Scripture explains scripture and there must be explanations of seeming contradictions. The scriptures says you must be born again, that means you must seek God's Spirit and receive it, and surrender to it often. People can have that after they die. They may never have heard the Gospel preached, dying at one month or eighty years old. Child-like trust is a key. The Bible does not say, once you die, you have no further hope of salvation, it continues for everyone. Who is one hundred percent holy by the time of departure or glorious as before God the Father?

The Bible is not a complete book. Not one that covers all issues.

GoldenKingGaze · Dec 2, 2021

The Bible says God is... turn to and take in my Spirit and let me lead you, scripture helps. Jesus' blood presence makes you heart clean and justified and heals spirit hurts.

People want the Spirit, but Bible quoters cannot well address say homosexual marriage issues. They even condemn and only warn, not offer grace, and so lock people out of the Kingdom, maybe getting in themselves. Like the Pharisees.

KJV Matthew 23:13.
13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Not to suggest I know someone here is a hypocrite.

St_Worm2 · Dec 2, 2021

Hello yet again @Carl Emerson, I was talking about this topic on a different thread recently, and I posted an excerpt about being "born again" from one of Dr. J. I. Packer's books (he is an Anglican theologian), and I thought that it might prove to be useful here as well.

Here it is:

REGENERATION
THE CHRISTIAN IS BORN AGAIN

In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see
the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
JOHN 3:3

Regeneration is a New Testament concept that grew, it seems, out of a parabolic picture-phrase that Jesus used to show Nicodemus the inwardness and depth of the change that even religious Jews must undergo if they were ever to see and enter the kingdom of God, and so have eternal life (John 3:3-15). Jesus pictured the change as being “born again.”

The concept is of God renovating the heart, the core of a person’s being, by implanting a new principle of desire, purpose, and action, a dispositional dynamic that finds expression in positive response to the gospel and its Christ. Jesus’ phrase “born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5) harks back to Ezekiel 36:25-27, where God is pictured as symbolically cleansing persons from sin’s pollution (by water) and bestowing a “new heart” by putting his Spirit within them. Because this is so explicit, Jesus chides Nicodemus, “Israel’s teacher,” for not understanding how new birth happens (John 3:9-10). Jesus’ point throughout is that there is no exercise of faith in himself as the supernatural Savior, no repentance, and no true discipleship apart from this new birth.

Elsewhere John teaches that belief in the Incarnation and Atonement, with faith and love, holiness and righteousness, is the fruit and proof that one is born of God (1 John 2:29; 1 John 3:9; 1 John 4:7; 1 John 5:1, 1 John 5:4). It thus appears that as there is no conversion without new birth, so there is no new birth without conversion.

Though infant regeneration can be a reality when God so purposes (Luke 1:15, Luke 1:41-44), the ordinary context of new birth is one of effectual calling—that is, confrontation with the gospel and illumination as to its truth and significance as a message from God to oneself. Regeneration is always the decisive element in effectual calling.

Regeneration is monergistic: that is, entirely the work of God the Holy Spirit. It raises the elect among the spiritually dead to new life in Christ (Ephesians 2:1-10). Regeneration is a transition from spiritual death to spiritual life, and conscious, intentional, active faith in Christ is its immediate fruit, not its immediate cause. Regeneration is the work of what Augustine called “prevenient” grace, the grace that precedes our outgoings of heart toward God. ~Packer, J. I. (1993). Concise theology: a guide to historic Christian beliefs (pp. 157–158).

--David

Mr. M · Dec 2, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Jesus says we need this, but...

How do we get it?

How do we know we have it?

5 Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water
and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

To be born again of the Spirit is a direct result of what Paul calls reconciliation.
Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through
the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

This reconciliation with the Father allows the believer to receive from above,
from the Holy Spirit to our spirit.
John 3:
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing unless it has been
given to him from heaven.
31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly
and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all.
32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one
receives His testimony.
33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true.

To receive the Truth of the Gospel is to be reconciled with the Father, and be born again.
Again, to receive from above, Holy Spirit to our spirit.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

The reason that most do not see clearly the relationship between Paul and the Gospel of
John is the strange tendency of academic Christianity to break the Gospel down word by
word to formulate a handy "Bible Dictionary". The truth is that all these things point to one
thing, a restored relationship with our heavenly Father, by the promise of the Spirit.
Paul is describing this restored ability again here.
1 Corinthians 2:
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things,
yes, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him?
Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God,
that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

Simply put, you must be born from above to receive from above.
Same topic, from James
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes
down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle,
willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.

This should make perfect sense to anyone who is born again from above
John 8:
23 And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world;
I am not of this world.
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am,
you will die in your sins.

God giving and man receiving from heaven. Like dancing in the rain.
Isaiah 55:
10 For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and do not return there,
But water the earth, and make it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower
and bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper for which I sent it.

Freely you have received...
John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall
anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Yes, read ALL of John 3
34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give
the Spirit by measure.
35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand.
36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not
believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

To be born again from above is to receive what the Son gives to us FREELY
Revelation 21:
6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning
and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.
7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

Do we need to be "Born again"

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Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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Simul Justus et Peccator

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

Simul Justus et Peccator

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