Does "Israel" mean "the church"?

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Biblewriter

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Does your HARD PROOF include the following?

Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXIII, 130 AD
"Christians are the True Israel"

Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXXV, 130 AD
"Christ is King of Israel, and Christians are the Israelitic Race.

Justin Martyr, Dialogues, Chapter CXXXV, 130 AD
"As, therefore, Christ is the Israel and the Jacob, even so we, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelitic race."

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 4, Chapter 8, Paragraph 1
"This, then, is a clear point, that those who disallow his salvation, and frame the idea of another God besides Him who made the promise to Abraham, are outside the kingdom of God, and are disinherited from [the gift of] incorruption, setting at naught and blaspheming God, who introduces, through Jesus Christ, Abraham to the kingdom of heaven, and his seed, that is, the Church, upon which also is conferred the adoption and the inheritance promised to Abraham."

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 34, Paragraph 1
"Now I have shown a short time ago that the church is the seed of Abraham..."

John Chrysostom on Galatians 6:15-16
"Observe the power of the Cross, to what a pitch it hath raised him! not only hath it put to death for him all mundane affairs, but hath set him far above the Old Dispensation. What can be comparable to this power? for the Cross hath persuaded him, who was willing to be slain and to slay others for the sake of circumcision, to leave it on a level with uncircumcision, and to seek for things strange and marvellous and above the heavens. This our rule of life he calls "a new creature," both on account of what is past, and of what is to come; of what is past, because our soul, which had grown old with the oldness of sin, hath been all at once renewed by baptism, as if it had been created again. Wherefore we require a new and heavenly rule of life. And of things to come, because both the heaven and the earth, and all the creation, shall with our bodies be translated into incorruption. Tell me not then, he says, of circumcision, which now availeth nothing; (for how shall it appear, when all things have undergone such a change?) but seek the new things of grace. For they who pursue these things shall enjoy peace and amity, and may properly be called by the name of "Israel." While they who hold contrary sentiments, although they be descended from him and bear his appellation, have yet fallen away from all these things, both the relationship and the name itself. But it is in their power to be true Israelites, who keep this rule, who desist from the old ways, and follow after grace."
I RECOGNIZED that these people said these things, and THEN pointed out that they ALSO taught, ad not only taught, bit very CLEARLY taught.

1: That Bible prophecy should be interpreted LITERALLY.

2: That "the Jews" would be brought BACK to their ancient homeland.

3: That, after being brought back to their ancient homeland, "the Jews" would be CONVERTED en masse.

4: That the seventieth week of Daniel's seventy weeks remains to be fulfilled IN THE END TIMES.

5: that the church would be "suddenly caught up" BEFORE the "great tribulation."

ALL of these things were not only taught, but CLEARLY taught, before the year 200, and continued to be taught at least into the fifth century.
 
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jgr

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I RECOGNIZED that these people said these things, and THEN pointed out that they ALSO taught, ad not only taught, bit very CLEARLY taught.

1: That Bible prophecy should be interpreted LITERALLY.

2: That "the Jews" would be brought BACK to their ancient homeland.

3: That, after being brought back to their ancient homeland, "the Jews" would be CONVERTED en masse.

4: That the seventieth week of Daniel's seventy weeks remains to be fulfilled IN THE END TIMES.

5: that the church would be "suddenly caught up" BEFORE the "great tribulation."

ALL of these things were not only taught, but CLEARLY taught, before the year 200, and continued to be taught at least into the fifth century.

The question in the OP is: "Does "Israel" mean "the church"?"

The answers of these historical defenders of the true faith are: Unambiguously and resoundingly "YES".

Which also invalidates your claim 1 above.

They declared that under the New Covenant, Israel is fulfilled spiritually in the Church.
 
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Biblewriter

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The question in the OP is: "Does "Israel" mean "the church"?"

The answers of these historical defenders of the true faith are: Unambiguously and resoundingly "YES".
AND they just as resoundingly said that Bible prophecy should be Interpreted LITERALLY, that "the Jews' (they did NOT say "Israel") would be both brought back to their homeland and be converted en masse, AND that the seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks remained to be fulfilled IN THE END TIMES.

I pointed out that this SEEMS contradictory to US, but it evidently made sense to THEM as NEITHER Dispensationalism NOR Covenant Theology was formalized into a system of doctrine until well over a thousand years later.

I pointed this out to counter Covenant Theology's LIE that their doctrine is "what the church had always taught for 1800 years." The formal system of doctrine called "Covenant Theology" is indeed older than the formal system of doctrine called Dispensationalism. But it is ONLY about 300 years older.

The central elements of BOTH of these modern systems of Doctrine were CLEARLY taught in the oldest surviving prophetic writings of the church. So it is a blatant LIE that iCovenant Theology "is what the church had ALWAYS taught" up to the year 1830 or so.
 
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keras

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I have repeatedly posted, both the HORRIBLE judgments coming upon Israel, AND the fact that the modern nation that is now called Israel is called Judah in Bible prophecy. For THAT is its ACTUAL name.
We agree on the forthcoming Judgment of Judah.
But. what any nation calls itself; does not mean they are true to that name. The Democratic Republic of the Congo is a prime example.

At the most, the Jews are only 2/12ths of the whole nation of Israel. In fact, they are the House of Judah and the House of Israel remains a separate entity. Not yet rejoined as per Ezekiel 37:15-28
Take note of Ezekiel 37:1-14; where the House of Israel receives the breath of the holy Spirit. In other words: the Gospel of Jesus, as He said they would receive it. Matthew 15:24
It follows then with the truth that we Christians are the Israelites of God, His faithful righteous people, the bearers of Spiritual fruit. Matthew 21:43
3: That, after being brought back to their ancient homeland, "the Jews" would be CONVERTED en masse.
This idea, part of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church doctrine, is false and never stated in the Bible.
5: that the church would be "suddenly caught up" BEFORE the "great tribulation."
Further error. Matthew 24:29-30 plainly states that the faithful people will be gathered AFTER God's wrath is over.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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You are ignoring GOD’S own explanation of what HE meant by saying “not all Israel is of Israel.” Verse 8 begins with the words, That is,” and verse 9 begins with the word “For.” These two beginnings CLEARLY show that these verses, and those that follow, are explaining what God had just said.

And what was the explanation? God gave two examples of SOME, but not ALL, of the physical seed of Abraham being chosen as his “seed.”

So this scripture does not even imply that anyone who is not a physical descendant of Israel could become an Israelite. It is only teaching that being a physical descendant of Israel is not enough. To be a true Israelite, a person must also share the faith of Abraham.
Where in Romans 9:6-8 does it say that being a physical descendant of Israel is a requirement for being a part of the Israel of which not all of the nation of Israel are part? I don't see that as being a requirement at all. Instead, it says that being a child of God and a child of the promise is a requirement for being Abraham's seed and part of that Israel rather than being a physical descendant of the nation of Israel. The following passage tells us who are the children of God and children of the promise that are counted as Abraham's seed:

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You contradict the entire New Testament by trying to create a difference between Jews and Gentiles, but New Testament scripture repeatedly tells us that we are brought together as one by the blood of Christ and through faith in Him.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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It would require many hours to address and answer all the cavils that have been offered here. So I will simply point out that, although there are a few New Testament passages that can rationally be interpreted to mean that "the church" is called "Israel," There is not even one such passage that actually CALLS "the church," "Israel." Nor is there even one New Testament (or Old Testament) passage that SAYS, either that there is only one people of God or that "the church" is "Israel." While these doctrines can be made to appear reasonable, there is no way to avoid the HARD FACT that these doctrines are based, IN THEIR ENTIRETIES, on INTERPRETATION, rather than on EVEN ONE explicit statement of scriptiure.

On the other hand, the promises made to the ancient nation of Israel are EXPLICITLY STATED, in PLAIN, CLEAR, words, again and again. These include the EXPLICIT STATEMENT in Ezekiel 36:1-10 that the "mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around." would again be "inhabited" by "all the house of Israel, all of it." They also include a PRECISE DEFINITION of the future bprders of the land of Israel in Ezekiel 47:13-20, with a specificatation of how this PLOT OF REAL ESTATE will be divided among the twelve tribes of Israel in the following chapter. (Ezekiel 48)

Zechariah 13:8-9 explicitly says that 2/3 of all those in the land will be killed, but that the Lord will not only physically save the other third, but will restore them to Himself. Isaiah 66:13-20 says that after the Lord cmes "with fire, to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire," He will bring the rest of Israel back to the land. And Ezekiel 20:33-38 EXPLICTLY sau[ys that, as they return, the Lord will purge the rebels from amng them, saying of these rebels, that "I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel." Then Zecharieh 12:10-12 EXPLICITLY SAYS that "all the families that remain" will repent with biter weeping, with the result that, as Isaiah 4:2-4 says, all of them "that are counted anng the Living," "will be called holy." and Jeremiah 31:34 says of them at that time, that "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

As differentiated from the THEORY that "Israel" means "the church," which is based ENTIRELY on interpretation, NONE of this is interpretation. It is EXPLICITLY STATED in the Bible. Yet there is no rational way to even PRETEND that ANY of it has already happened.
It is EXPLICITLY STATED by Paul in Romans 9:6-8 that those who make up the Israel of which not all those who are descendants of the nation of Israel are part, are those who are Abraham's seed which are the children of God and are the children of the promise.

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

It is also EXPLICITLY STATED that the children of God and of the promise are those who have faith in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, and they are Abraham's seed.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So, Paul did EXPLICITLY STATE that Israel is made up of the children of God and of the promise who are Abraham's seed and he EXPLICITLY STATED that the children of God and of the promise are all Jews and Gentiles who have faith in Christ. So, it's not hard to deduce from what Paul EXPLICITLY STATED that the Israel of God is made up of Jews and Gentiles who have faith in Christ and that is the church. But, you don't accept what is EXPLICITLY STATED in the New Testament.
 
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jgr

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AND they just as resoundingly said that Bible prophecy should be Interpreted LITERALLY, that "the Jews' (they did NOT say "Israel") would be both brought back to their homeland and be converted en masse, AND that the seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks remained to be fulfilled IN THE END TIMES.

I pointed out that this SEEMS contradictory to US, but it evidently made sense to THEM as NEITHER Dispensationalism NOR Covenant Theology was formalized into a system of doctrine until well over a thousand years later.

I pointed this out to counter Covenant Theology's LIE that their doctrine is "what the church had always taught for 1800 years." The formal system of doctrine called "Covenant Theology" is indeed older than the formal system of doctrine called Dispensationalism. But it is ONLY about 300 years older.

The central elements of BOTH of these modern systems of Doctrine were CLEARLY taught in the oldest surviving prophetic writings of the church. So it is a blatant LIE that iCovenant Theology "is what the church had ALWAYS taught" up to the year 1830 or so.

The historical understanding, by the early church fathers, of the Church as Israel was expressed once again in the Reformation, forming an uninterrupted continuum of truth that endured to the 19th century.

There was not one recognized historical defender of the true faith before the 19th century who denied that old covenant Israel found its New Covenant fulfillment in the New Covenant Church.

Dispensationalism's denial of this unassailable reality in Christian orthodoxy is dispensationalism's LIE.

Martin Luther on Galatians 6:16
Lectures on Galatians, 1519
. ""Walk" is the same verb that is used above (5:25). "Walk," that is, go, by this rule. By what rule? It is this rule, that they are new creatures in Christ, that they shine with the true righteousness and holiness which come from faith, and that they do not deceive themselves and others with the hypocritical righteousness and holiness which come from the Law. Upon the latter there will be wrath and tribulation, and upon the former will rest peace and mercy. Paul adds the words "upon the Israel of God." He distinguishes this Israel from the Israel after the flesh, just as in 1 Cor. 10:18 he speaks of those who are the Israel of the flesh, not the Israel of God. Therefore peace is upon Gentiles and Jews, provided that they go by the rule of faith and the Spirit."

Lectures on Galatians, 1535. ""Upon the Israel of God." Here Paul attacks the false apostles and the Jews, who boasted about their fathers, their election, the Law, etc. (Rom. 9:4-5). It is as though he were saying: "The Israel of God are not the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel but those who, with Abraham the believer (3:9), believe in the promises of God now disclosed in Christ, whether they are Jews or Gentiles."

John Calvin on Galatians 6:16
"Upon the Israel of God. This is an indirect ridicule of the vain boasting of the false apostles, who vaunted of being the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh. There are two classes who bear this name, a pretended Israel, which appears to be so in the sight of men, and the Israel of God. Circumcision was a disguise before men, but regeneration is a truth before God. In a word, he gives the appellation of the Israel of God to those whom he formerly denominated the children of Abraham by faith (Galatians 3:29), and thus includes all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were united into one church."
 
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Biblewriter

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The historical understanding, by the early church fathers, of the Church as Israel was expressed once again in the Reformation, forming an uninterrupted continuum of truth that endured to the 19th century.

There was not one recognized historical defender of the true faith before the 19th century who denied that old covenant Israel found its New Covenant fulfillment in the New Covenant Church.

Dispensationalism's denial of this unassailable reality in Christian orthodoxy is dispensationalism's LIE.

Martin Luther on Galatians 6:16
Lectures on Galatians, 1519
. ""Walk" is the same verb that is used above (5:25). "Walk," that is, go, by this rule. By what rule? It is this rule, that they are new creatures in Christ, that they shine with the true righteousness and holiness which come from faith, and that they do not deceive themselves and others with the hypocritical righteousness and holiness which come from the Law. Upon the latter there will be wrath and tribulation, and upon the former will rest peace and mercy. Paul adds the words "upon the Israel of God." He distinguishes this Israel from the Israel after the flesh, just as in 1 Cor. 10:18 he speaks of those who are the Israel of the flesh, not the Israel of God. Therefore peace is upon Gentiles and Jews, provided that they go by the rule of faith and the Spirit."

Lectures on Galatians, 1535. ""Upon the Israel of God." Here Paul attacks the false apostles and the Jews, who boasted about their fathers, their election, the Law, etc. (Rom. 9:4-5). It is as though he were saying: "The Israel of God are not the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel but those who, with Abraham the believer (3:9), believe in the promises of God now disclosed in Christ, whether they are Jews or Gentiles."

John Calvin on Galatians 6:16
"Upon the Israel of God. This is an indirect ridicule of the vain boasting of the false apostles, who vaunted of being the descendants of Abraham according to the flesh. There are two classes who bear this name, a pretended Israel, which appears to be so in the sight of men, and the Israel of God. Circumcision was a disguise before men, but regeneration is a truth before God. In a word, he gives the appellation of the Israel of God to those whom he formerly denominated the children of Abraham by faith (Galatians 3:29), and thus includes all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were united into one church."
AND, as PROVED in the book, "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by the late William C. Watson, during the period from 1500 t0 1799, there were also literally DOZENS of writers who CLEARLY taught the central concepts of Dispensationalism.
 
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jgr

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AND, as PROVED in the book, "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by the late William C. Watson, during the period from 1500 t0 1799, there were also literally DOZENS of writers who CLEARLY taught the central concepts of Dispensationalism.

AND, not ONE who denied that the Church was Israel.
 
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Biblewriter

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AND, not ONE who denied that the Church was Israel.
I do not know whether that is, or is not, correct, in regard to Watson's book. But in an appendix to my book, I quoted MANY passages from a "Commentary Upon the Prophet Ezekiel," published in 1723 by William Lowth. In this book Lowth repeatedly stressed that JUDAH and ISRAEL would be reunited and would return to their ancient homeland and be converted. This book was a part of Lowth's series of prophetic commentaries, which became the most widely studied works on Bible prophecy in the eighteenth century.

A typical statement from this book was the following from his introduction to his discussion of Ezekiel 38 and 39. (pg. 308 of the book)

“The Prophecy in this and the following Chapter concerning Israel’s Victory over Gog and Magog without question relates to the latter Ages of the World when the whole House of Israel shall return unto their own land, Chap. xxxix. 25,26.
 
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jgr

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I do not know whether that is, or is not, correct, in regard to Watson's book. But in an appendix to my book, I quoted MANY passages from a "Commentary Upon the Prophet Ezekiel," published in 1723 by William Lowth. In this book Lowth repeatedly stressed that JUDAH and ISRAEL would be reunited and would return to their ancient homeland and be converted. This book was a part of Lowth's series of prophetic commentaries, which became the most widely studied works on Bible prophecy in the eighteenth century.

A typical statement from this book was the following from his introduction to his discussion of Ezekiel 38 and 39. (pg. 308 of the book)

“The Prophecy in this and the following Chapter concerning Israel’s Victory over Gog and Magog without question relates to the latter Ages of the World when the whole House of Israel shall return unto their own land, Chap. xxxix. 25,26.

Nothing there that denies the historical truth that the Church is Israel.

But in no way supports dispensational claims of two peoples of God.

Because if the Church is Israel, and it is, then the only Chosen People of God are His Church.

And redemption for earthly Israel, irrespective of where it is located, can come only through salvation that joins it to His Church.

An unraptured Church that remains on earth to serve God and His purposes until the end of time.



"I do not know whether that is, or is not, correct, in regard to Watson's book."

How could you not know? Haven't you read the book that you've been promoting for years?
 
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Biblewriter

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Nothing there that denies the historical claim that the Church is Israel.

But in no way supports dispensational claims of two peoples of God.

Because if the Church is Israel, and it is, then the only Chosen People of God are His Church.

And redemption for Israel, irrespective of where it is located, can come only through salvation that joins it to His Church.

An unraptured Church that remains on earth to serve God and His purposes until the end of time.
You can wrest the scriptures to mean this, but you cannot change what God has EXPLICITLY said in His word. He has promised to take us to heaven. (John 14:2-3, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) And He has promised that AFTER that, (Isaiah 66:15-20) He will bring absolutely ALL of the ancient nation of Israel back to their ancient homeland, and. after purging the rebels from their midst, (Ezekiel 20:33-38) bring the rest of them to repentance and true faith in Himself. (Isaiah 4:2-4, Jeremiah 31:33-34, Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26)

The differences in these two sets of promises could not be more radical.
 
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jgr

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You can wrest the scriptures to mean this, but you cannot change what God has EXPLICITLY said in His word. He has promised to take us to heaven. (John 14:2-3, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) And He has promised that AFTER that, (Isaiah 66:15-20) He will bring absolutely ALL of the ancient nation of Israel back to their ancient homeland, and. after purging the rebels from their midst, (Ezekiel 20:33-38) bring the rest of them to repentance and true faith in Himself. (Isaiah 4:2-4, Jeremiah 31:33-34, Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26)

The differences in these two sets of promises could not be more radical.

Awaiting any evidence from any historical source that you've referenced denying that the Church is Israel.

And if the Church is Israel, and it is, then everything to do with Israel's salvation flows from that reality.
 
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Biblewriter

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Awaiting any evidence from any historical source that you've referenced denying that the Church is Israel.

And if the Church is Israel, and it is, then everything to do with Israel's salvation flows from that reality.
While you can produce MANY statements from historical churchmen that "the church" is "Israel," you cannot provide EVEN ONE statement from the Bible that says that. And I have already provided many statements from historical churchmen whose RESULT is that "Israel" and "the church" are different, even though they may not have ever STATED that.
 
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jgr

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While you can produce MANY statements from historical churchmen that "the church" is "Israel," you cannot provide EVEN ONE statement from the Bible that says that. And I have already provided many statements from historical churchmen whose RESULT is that "Israel" and "the church" are different, even though they may not have ever STATED that.

Awaiting any evidence from any historical source that you've referenced claiming that Israel will be saved outside of the Church.
 
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Biblewriter

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Awaiting any evidence from any historical source that you've referenced claiming that Israel will be saved outside of the Church.
A number of them very explicitly taught that "the church" would be "suddenly caught up," and then AFTER that time in their scenarios, had "the Jews" being converted en masse. That, although it was not STATED as such, was a teaching that "the Jews" would be saved AFTER the church was ALREADY in heaven. This is what modern Dispensationalists teach, which people like yourself DECEPTIVELY style as teaching that they would be saved "outside of the church." For I am not aware of EVEN ONE Dispensationalist, ancient, modern, or from the sixteenth through the eighteenth centuries, who EVER stated our doctrine that way.
 
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jgr

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it was not STATED as such

That explains pretty much everything.

After trumpeting your putative historical basis of dispensationalism, you're unable to provide any historical evidence of one of its most indispensable ideologies.

The salvation of Israel outside of the Church.

"it was not STATED as such".

Yes, it certainly wasn't.

It was not stated at all.
 
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Biblewriter

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That explains pretty much everything.

After trumpeting your putative historical basis of dispensationalism, you're unable to provide any historical evidence of one of its most indispensable ideologies.

The salvation of Israel outside of the Church.

"it was not STATED as such".

Yes, it certainly wasn't.

It was not stated at all.
Nor has it EVER, even ONCE, been stated by ANY Dispensationalist that I know about. THIS doctrine exists ONLY in the minds of our opponents. And it is advanced ONLY as a DISHONEST caricature of our doctrine. It is a BLATANT attempt to make it SEEM that we teach that people could be saved without trusting in Jesus. This is DISHONEST because you people KNOW that we teach NO SUCH THING.

The only ALLEGED "Dispensationalist" I know about who has EVER taught that Jews can be saved without trusting in Jesus is John Hagee, and not even ONE teacher of note among Dispensationalists recognizes Hagee as a REAL Dispensationalist.
 
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keras

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"Commentary Upon the Prophet Ezekiel," published in 1723 by William Lowth. In this book Lowth repeatedly stressed that JUDAH and ISRAEL would be reunited and would return to their ancient homeland and be converted.
Relying on the commentators and the 'wise and learned' people for the truth of Bible prophecy, is a bad mistake. Jesus said that understanding of the Prophetic Word is withheld from them. Matthew 11:25, 1 Cor 1:19-20

Nowhere in the Bible is it said there will be a general conversion of anyone, after going to live in the holy Land.
You can wrest the scriptures to mean this, but you cannot change what God has EXPLICITLY said in His word. He has promised to take us to heaven.
The Bible never says there will be a general removal of people to heaven. Only AFTER the Millennium, will humans experience heaven, in their new Spiritual state, Revelation 21:1-7
He will bring absolutely ALL of the ancient nation of Israel back to their ancient homeland,
Absolutely all of the ancient Israelites are dead.
Their genetics are completely diluted worldwide.
NOW; the way to be a true Israelite of God, is to accept Jesus and to keep the Commandments.
 
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jgr

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Nor has it EVER, even ONCE, been stated by ANY Dispensationalist that I know about. THIS doctrine exists ONLY in the minds of our opponents. And it is advanced ONLY as a DISHONEST caricature of our doctrine. It is a BLATANT attempt to make it SEEM that we teach that people could be saved without trusting in Jesus. This is DISHONEST because you people KNOW that we teach NO SUCH THING.

The only ALLEGED "Dispensationalist" I know about who has EVER taught that Jews can be saved without trusting in Jesus is John Hagee, and not even ONE teacher of note among Dispensationalists recognizes Hagee as a REAL Dispensationalist.

Yes, it hasn't been stated by any dispensationalist because it precisely describes what dispensationalism attempts to conceal.

With the Church being raptured as dispensationalism claims, and with Israel being saved thereafter as dispensationalism claims, then Israel is saved outside of the Church, as dispensationalism believes but refuses to claim.


There is a word which accurately describes such subterfuge.

Fraud.
 
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