"Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob"

jgr

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The House of Israel remains in exile now.
It was the House of Judah, who were taken to Babylon and who are now, mostly symbolically, the peoples in a small part of the holy Land.

It is we Christians who represent the whole House of Israel today.

You're well aware, keras, that there are no longer any genetic distinctions possible between Israel, Judah, Christians, or anyone else, because Abraham's (and Jacob's) genomes are in all.

God distinguishes only spiritually, between we who are His Chosen People, i.e. faithful obedient Christians; and those who are not.

We are the Israel of God. (Galatians 6:16)
 
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Bob_1000

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One thing we know is that it involves the latter days. Pretty much everyone agrees with the NT when it indicates the latter days began with the first coming of Christ. The text indicates that He pours His Spirit out on the house of Israel meant, after His judgment involving Gog and his multitude. What during the past 2000 years could possibly explain His judgment involving Gog and his multitude?

Please don't tell me something silly, such as 70 AD explains it. As if the Romans consisted of a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

Keep in mind, this involves the latter days and that we have been in the latter days since the first century and are still in the latter days yet today.

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
I would say that about 95% of the prophecies the prophets wrote about were about the LAST DAYS of the flesh descendants of Israel being in charge of the kingdom of heaven and yet futurist IGNORE this and twist "THESE Last days" into a 2000 year period that are the last days of..... well I don't know what y'all think it's the last days of. Maybe y'all think its the last days of the earth that the bible says ABIDETH FOREVER.

Gog and Magog happened well before 70 AD because we are told in Eze 39:29 that Gog and Magog happened BEFORE God poured out his spirit on the house of Israel at Pentecost.

Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Maybe Gog and Magog happened during the "400 silent years", I don't know when it happened but I know it happened well before 70 AD.
 
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DavidPT

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Gog and Magog happened well before 70 AD because we are told in Eze 39:29 that Gog and Magog happened BEFORE God poured out his spirit on the house of Israel at Pentecost.

Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Maybe Gog and Magog happened during the "400 silent years", I don't know when it happened but I know it happened well before 70 AD.

If a major event like this already occured, history would have recorded it at least. I have discussed these 2 chapters with unbelieving Jews in the past. None of them thought this was a battle that had already been fulfilled. You would think if anyone should know, it would be them that would. They reason it to be involving a battle that is yet to take place.

Your interpretation only makes sense if the judgment involving Gog and multitude preceded the day of Pentecost. I would be more inclined to agree with your interpretation if it can be undeniably proved that the judgment involving Gog and multitude preceded the day of Pentecost. How does one propose to prove something that can't be proved to begin with?

Some of the same things, such as when the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven, the similar also happens to Gog and his multitude. We saw the fulfillment of the former in the Scriptures themselves in Genesis 19. In Ezekiel 38-39 some of these events recorded are prophecies, not events where we see their fulfillment in the Scriptures themselves, such as we do in Genesis 19. And since Scripture doesn't record it's fulfillment the way Genesis 19 did in regards to Sodom and Gomorrah, and that history doesn't either, how could it possibly be unreasonable to assume that the reason why is, because these events are yet to be fulfilled?
 
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jgr

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We were. Is there any reason to think that verse does not involve the latter days?

Because Ezekiel 39:25, which the title of this thread excerpts, says:

Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

Now began when Ezekiel was speaking/writing.
 
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Douggg

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Now began when Ezekiel was writing.
No, it is in the near future to us of when the Jews will finally know that Jesus is the Lord their God in verse 22.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

In 1948 the Jews re-established Israel as their homeland, to escape the persecution in the nations. Most notably by Hitler and the nazi's in WWII. They still don't believe in Jesus, but that will take place in the middle part of the 7 years following the destruction of Gog's army in the near to us future.

In Ezekiel 39,verse 28, Jesus at His Return in Matthew 24, will bring all of the Jews back to the land of Israel, corresponding to Matthew 24:31.
 
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Guojing

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You should stop laughing, because throughout the entirety of Holy-Spirit-inspired-Scripture, God is referred to as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The Holy Spirit, and the Christians who believe Him, have the last laugh.

The name is Jacob is of course fine, it shows that God extends grace to everyone, even those who deceive.

But to form a strange doctrine that

"Throughout Scripture, "Jacob" is a representation of the faithful obedient remnant within the unfaithful disobedient nation of Israel."

is laughable.
 
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Douggg

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Gog and Magog happened well before 70 AD because we are told in Eze 39:29 that Gog and Magog happened BEFORE God poured out his spirit on the house of Israel at Pentecost.
Gog/Magog has not happened yet, proved so by no large mass grave site in Israel of Gog's army.
 
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jgr

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No, it is in the near future to us of when the Jews will finally know that Jesus is the Lord their God in verse 22.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

In 1948 the Jews re-established Israel as their homeland, to escape the persecution in the nations. Most notably by Hitler and the nazi's in WWII. They still don't believe in Jesus, but that will take place in the middle part of the 7 years following the destruction of Gog's army in the near to us future.

In Ezekiel 39,verse 28, Jesus at His Return in Matthew 24, will bring all of the Jews back to the land of Israel, corresponding to Matthew 24:31.

So neither the Holy Spirit nor Ezekiel knew what "now" meant. Imagine that.

Your Jews are a genetic fantasy, because all of humanity are genetic Jews.

I'm a genetic Jew. You're a genetic Jew. The entire human race is genetic Jews.

Your 1948 is a fantasy, fallacy and fraud, for it violates the most elemental principle of repatriation, which was spiritual repentance and rehabilitation before any return.

As seen in Israel's multiple exiles and returns.

You lose.
 
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Douggg

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Your 1948 is a fantasy, fallacy and fraud, for it violates the most elemental principle of repatriation, which was spiritual repentance and rehabilitation before any return.
What are the bible verses that speak about a "fake Israel", of Jews returning to the land to Israel in the latter days, latter years?
 
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jgr

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What are the bible verses that speak about a "fake Israel", of Jews returning to the land to Israel in the latter days, latter years?

Not one in the NT, because all of the OT promises are fulfilled in Christ. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

Describe how all of humanity will return to Israel.
 
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jgr

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The name is Jacob is of course fine, it shows that God extends grace to everyone, even those who deceive.

But to form a strange doctrine that



is laughable.

Ecclesiastes 7:3
Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better.
 
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jgr

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The name is Jacob is of course fine, it shows that God extends grace to everyone, even those who deceive.

But to form a strange doctrine that



is laughable.

God's servants are faithful and obedient.

Was God's servant Jacob laughable?

Jeremiah 46:27
But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
 
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Douggg

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Not one in the NT, because all of the OT promises are fulfilled in Christ. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

Describe how all of humanity will return to Israel.
Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 are referring to the descendants of Jacob, which went into exile.

Luke 21:24 distinguishes between them who went into exile, lead captives into the nations - and the gentiles.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Who is back there in Jerusalem right now, with Jerusalem being the capital of their nation of Israel ?
 
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Bob_1000

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If a major event like this already occured, history would have recorded it at least. I have discussed these 2 chapters with unbelieving Jews in the past. None of them thought this was a battle that had already been fulfilled. You would think if anyone should know, it would be them that would. They reason it to be involving a battle that is yet to take place.
You would think the sun being darkened all over the world from noon to three would be recorded in history. You would also think dead people coming out of the grave and walking amongst the living would be recorded in history. You would think the unbelieving Jews would've written about this or at least passed it down orally from generation to generation. You would think Josephus would've written about this too, which proves Josephus was a fraud if such a person even existed.

History has always and will always be written by the people of power and they will only write about things that they want the ignorant masses to believe.

The truth is we have no idea what happened during the time Jesus walked the earth other than what the bible tells us happened and the bible doesn't give all the details in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The only way we can know what happened is by reading the Old Testament and latching on to the things that absolutely identify the timing of the events.
Your interpretation only makes sense if the judgment involving Gog and multitude preceded the day of Pentecost. I would be more inclined to agree with your interpretation if it can be undeniably proved that the judgment involving Gog and multitude preceded the day of Pentecost. How does one propose to prove something that can't be proved to begin with?
Shouldn't the words of the bible be sufficient proof?

Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

How do you handle Eze 39:29? It says specifically that Ezekiel 38 and 39 happened BEFORE God poured out his spirit on the house of Israel. How can you place that at any other time than Pentecost or the resurrection of Christ?
Some of the same things, such as when the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven, the similar also happens to Gog and his multitude. We saw the fulfillment of the former in the Scriptures themselves in Genesis 19. In Ezekiel 38-39 some of these events recorded are prophecies, not events where we see their fulfillment in the Scriptures themselves, such as we do in Genesis 19. And since Scripture doesn't record it's fulfillment the way Genesis 19 did in regards to Sodom and Gomorrah, and that history doesn't either, how could it possibly be unreasonable to assume that the reason why is, because these events are yet to be fulfilled?
I don't know of anything in Ezekiel 38 and 39 that couldn't have already happened.

The timing of Ezekiel 38 and 39 is also given in Revelation 20 but the futurist has no chance of seeing this because the futurist view of "the end times", the resurrection and the 1000 years is so far from the truth it's impossible for the futurist to understand.
 
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Bob_1000

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Gog/Magog has not happened yet, proved so by no large mass grave site in Israel of Gog's army.
And you base this "no large mass grave site" on what? Why do futurist latch on to the most obscure NON-PROVABLE part of prophecy and totally IGNORE the most relevant PROVABLE part of prophecy?
 
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jgr

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Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 are referring to the descendants of Jacob, which went into exile.

Luke 21:24 distinguishes between them who went into exile, lead captives into the nations - and the gentiles.

The genetically diverse Israelites, comprised both of descendants of Jacob and Gentiles (Genesis 17:12), went into exile.

Who is back there in Jerusalem right now, with Jerusalem being the capital of their nation of Israel ?

Israelis, who like you and me and all of humanity are genetically diverse, are back there in Jerusalem right now.
 
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keras

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Who is back there in Jerusalem right now, with Jerusalem being the capital of their nation of Israel ?
The Israelis of Satan.
As seen from their fruit; the lack thereof.
You would think the sun being darkened all over the world from noon to three would be recorded in history
It was.
There is an extant dispatch from one of the Roman Governors North of Israel, who mentions that unusual occurrence.
You would also think dead people coming out of the grave and walking amongst the living would be recorded in history. You would think the unbelieving Jews would've written about this or at least passed it down orally from generation to generation
That is a point, but remember that most of the Jews were killed and everything destroyed by 135 AD. Hadrian had Jerusalem plowed over.
Josephus was a real person. You display a careless lack of historical study to say otherwise.
How do you handle Eze 39:29? It says specifically that Ezekiel 38 and 39 happened BEFORE God poured out his spirit on the house of Israel. How can you place that at any other time than Pentecost or the resurrection of Christ?
None of Ezekiel 38 and 39 has been fulfilled yet.
Proper and careful reading of those prophesies proves it.
And you base this "no large mass grave site" on what?
Ezekiel 39:11 specifies that Gog and his horde will be buried in the valley of Abarim. Called today; the Wadi Mujib.
I have been there. There is no sign or historical indication of any burials in that large deep valley.

Less opinion and more actual facts would make for better discussion, Bob.
 
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Bob_1000

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The Israelis of Satan.
As seen from their fruit; the lack thereof.

It was.
There is an extant dispatch from one of the Roman Governors North of Israel, who mentions that unusual occurrence.

That is a point, but remember that most of the Jews were killed and everything destroyed by 135 AD. Hadrian had Jerusalem plowed over.
Josephus was a real person. You display a careless lack of historical study to say otherwise.

None of Ezekiel 38 and 39 has been fulfilled yet.
Proper and careful reading of those prophesies proves it.

Ezekiel 39:11 specifies that Gog and his horde will be buried in the valley of Abarim. Called today; the Wadi Mujib.
I have been there. There is no sign or historical indication of any burials in that large deep valley.

Less opinion and more actual facts would make for better discussion, Bob.
Ok so there’s no national monument marking the graves so that means it didn’t happen. Again let’s go with the most obscure non-provable evidence and COMPLETELY IGNORE the provable hard core evidence that Gog and Magog happened before God poured out his spirit on the house of Israel.
 
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DavidPT

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Ok so there’s no national monument marking the graves so that means it didn’t happen. Again let’s go with the most obscure non-provable evidence and COMPLETELY IGNORE the provable hard core evidence that Gog and Magog happened before God poured out his spirit on the house of Israel.

You act as if you are holding the trump card, yet you are not.


Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there---what portion of this are some of you failing to grasp?

Do some of you not understand what this verse means? It means that they are in their land to stay this time around. Maybe 70 AD never happened. Is that what we should assume? But since 70 AD did happen it is ludicrous to apply this portion of this verse to a time period before 70 AD rather than after 70 AD.

Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

This is meaning during when this is meaning---but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
 
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