Thomas Jefferson statue removed from NY City Hall after 187 years

Aldebaran · Nov 26, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
Do you understand out on-topic posting even works? It does not seem so. I asked you what any of this has to do with the conversation in this thread and you go even further afield.

You also mentioned that one would have to go to the border to do what I suggested, and I pointed out that I already pointed that out.
If you don't want me to say something off topic, then why ask/say things that are off topic for me to address?

Hans Blaster · Nov 27, 2021

Aldebaran said:
You also mentioned that one would have to go to the border to do what I suggested, and I pointed out that I already pointed that out.
If you don't want me to say something off topic, then why ask/say things that are off topic for me to address?

In post #149 I asked what the relevance of your quote in post #143 was and you just give me the run around. No straight answer. I fail to see the relevance of the content of post #143 to the topic at hand.

Lost4words · Nov 27, 2021

RDKirk said:
The statue is not being destroyed, it's being moved.

Doesnt matter. It might as well be destroyed!

Bradskii · Nov 27, 2021

Lost4words said:
Doesnt matter. It might as well be destroyed!

Can you give your reasons why it should be kept and some reasons that you appreciate others may have for it's removal? I'm just trying to see if you understand that it's not a black and white position.

RDKirk · Nov 27, 2021

Lost4words said:
Doesnt matter. It might as well be destroyed!

That makes no sense. It's being moved to another public location. It could just have well have been erected in that location in the beginning.

Aldebaran · Nov 27, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
In post #149 I asked what the relevance of your quote in post #143 was and you just give me the run around. No straight answer. I fail to see the relevance of the content of post #143 to the topic at hand.

Oh, you mean this:

1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The relevance is that God owns us, since he bought us with a price. Therefore, ownership is a real thing, and it doesn't always mean slavery in the sense that it's referred to today.

Hans Blaster · Nov 27, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Oh, you mean this:

1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The relevance is that God owns us, since he bought us with a price. Therefore, ownership is a real thing, and it doesn't always mean slavery in the sense that it's referred to today.

Oh, that. I find this claim to me by this "God" to be rather unconvincing. What price did this "God" person pay for us?

Desk trauma · Nov 27, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
Oh, that. I find this claim to me by this "God" to be rather unconvincing. What price did this "God" person pay for us?

And whom did they pay?

Aldebaran · Nov 27, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
Oh, that. I find this claim to me by this "God" to be rather unconvincing. What price did this "God" person pay for us?

Bearing every sin you and I have committed.

Hans Blaster · Nov 27, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Bearing every sin you and I have committed.

How?

Aldebaran · Nov 27, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
How?

I don't want to turn this thread into a bible study thread since it would violate site rules. But here's a link to an article that will help explain it:
Did Christ Literally Bear Our Sins on the Cross?

DaisyDay · Nov 27, 2021

Landon Caeli said:
View attachment 308754

Thomas Jefferson is no longer in the room where it happens.

Art handlers packed up an 884-pound statue of Jefferson in a wooden crate Monday after a mayoral commission voted to banish the likeness of the nation’s third president from City Hall, where it’s resided for nearly two centuries — because he owned slaves.

Thomas Jefferson statue leaves City Hall after 187 years

The statue was only on loan anyway. What did Jefferson have to do with NYC City Hall? He was a Virginian.

They didn't throw the statue in the river - it just went back to the owners, the NY Historical Society.

Hans Blaster · Nov 27, 2021

Aldebaran said:
I don't want to turn this thread into a bible study thread since it would violate site rules. But here's a link to an article that will help explain it:
Did Christ Literally Bear Our Sins on the Cross?

I agree about the bible study. I remain unimpressed by this claim. I owe jesus nothing.

Aldebaran · Nov 27, 2021

Hans Blaster said:
I agree about the bible study. I remain unimpressed by this claim. I owe jesus nothing.

Well, you're here on CHRISTianforums. There must be something you find attractive about this site. I hope you discover what that might be.

Valletta · Nov 27, 2021

Bradskii said:
Do you think he knew it was wrong?

I think most people at some level, just like abortion today, knew that it was wrong. As to Jefferson specifically, most people don't know that Jefferson wrote a section for the Declaration of Independence against slavery, but it did not make the final version. The Declaration is the very foundational document of the United States, with the Constitution being our framework.

Bradskii · Nov 27, 2021

Valletta said:
I think most people at some level, just like abortion today, knew that it was wrong. As to Jefferson specifically, most people don't know that Jefferson wrote a section for the Declaration of Independence against slavery, but it did not make the final version. The Declaration is the very foundational document of the United States, with the Constitution being our framework.

So would you consider him a hypochrite for saying that slavery should be rejected yet he only ever released two of the hundreds he owned and actually encouraged his overseer to get his female slaves to produce more? It would seem to any reasonable person that his actions are that much worse because he knew he was doing wrong.

Valletta · Nov 27, 2021

Bradskii said:
So would you consider him a hypochrite for saying that slavery should be rejected yet he only ever released two of the hundreds he owned and actually encouraged his overseer to get his female slaves to produce more? It would seem to any reasonable person that his actions are that much worse because he knew he was doing wrong.

Yes, he seems to well fit the definition of the word.

Bradskii · Nov 28, 2021

Valletta said:
Yes, he seems to well fit the definition of the word.

I agree. And I'll bet my house that we'd also agree that he did an immense amount of good. For which we should revere him. And therein lies the problem. We should revere him for the good and call him out on the bad.

Where does that leave us in regard to having statues of the man? Well, they were all made to celebrate the good. How do we balance that with the bad? I honestly don't know.

Landon Caeli · Nov 28, 2021

DaisyDay said:
The statue was only on loan anyway. What did Jefferson have to do with NYC City Hall? He was a Virginian.

They didn't throw the statue in the river - it just went back to the owners, the NY Historical Society.

I don't believe that's true.

Landon Caeli · Nov 28, 2021

Bradskii said:
I agree. And I'll bet my house that we'd also agree that he did an immense amount of good. For which we should revere him. And therein lies the problem. We should revere him for the good and call him out on the bad.

Where does that leave us in regard to having statues of the man? Well, they were all made to celebrate the good. How do we balance that with the bad? I honestly don't know.

Negative people focus on the bad of a person. Typically, these are the kinds of people I don't associate with.

Thomas Jefferson statue removed from NY City Hall after 187 years

Should the statue have been removed?

Yes

No

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