If you distrust election results shouldn't you question all Democrat and republican victories?

stevil said:

There is no evidence at all of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election. None.

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There is a huge amount of evidence of vote fraud in the 2020 election. Included are hundreds of sworn testimonies from eyewitnesses, some arrests, thousands of votes cast by people who had moved out of state or died before election day and were, therefore, ineligible, votes counted more than once, and numerous other illegalities. Such doings occurred in many states, hence the denial that there was not "widespread'' vote fraud is false.

perplexed said:

Would people accept someone being charged for doing something that would , say, increase Bidens vote total by 100 votes as some evidence of widespread voter fraud?

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You can ask them. What I did was point out many of the erroneous claims that are made by people who feel the need to insist, against all the evidence, that nothing happened, never, not at all, under no circumstances, and so on. There have been three posters joining in with that chorus just since Post #53 on this thread alone, and this post I'm writing is only #63!

Albion said:

There is a huge amount of evidence of vote fraud in the 2020 election. Included are hundreds of sworn testimonies from eyewitnesses, some arrests, thousands of votes cast by people who had moved out of state or died before election day and were, therefore, ineligible, votes counted more than once, and numerous other illegalities. Such doings occurred in many states, hence the denial that there was not "widespread'' vote fraud is false.

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1) "widespread" refers to how commonplace it is. Not that it happenned in a bunch of different areas.

2) So many nothing burgers brought forward, again and again. So many times the lost posted their stories and the explanations and reasonable rationals and explanations got stuck in the ear wax.

3)What a sad list to destroy democracy...and all because of a puny, thirsty little ego.

Albion said:

There is a huge amount of evidence of vote fraud in the 2020 election. Included are hundreds of sworn testimonies from eyewitnesses,

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Those testimonies were meritless.
I remember the lady that Lou Dobbs brought onto his show. It was embarrassing. She was talking about a pizza truck not having enough pizza.

Recently when Guliani made a statement when being sued by Dominion Voting Systems, he was saying that he hadn't done any due diligence at all on these testimonies, just decided to bring them to court anyways.
'Not My Job': Rudy Giuliani Admits He Didn't Bother to Vet Ludicrous Election Fraud Claims
Trump allies Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell admitted they spent very little time verifying voter fraud claims made about the 2020 election before publicizing them in the national media, according to tapes of deposition videos obtained by CNN.

It’s “not my job [to] … investigate every piece of evidence,” Giuliani testified in a defamation suit brought by Dominion Voting Systems executive Eric Coomer.

Albion said:

some arrests,

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Who was arrested?

There was a Republican supporter man that was found out to have cast a vote on behalf of his dead wife. But that doesn't amount to widespread voter fraud.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ed-his-dead-wife-is-charged-with-voter-fraud/

Albion said:

thousands of votes cast by people who had moved out of state

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AP FACT CHECK: Trump's made-up claims of fake Georgia votes | AP News

TRUMP, claiming thousands of voters moved out of Georgia, registered in another state, and then improperly cast ballots in Georgia: “They came back in, and they voted. That was a large number.”

THE FACTS: Not so. Trump supporters are working from a list of questionable accuracy, according to Ryan Germany, the general counsel for Raffensperger’s office. He told Trump during the call that the claims have been investigated and that in many cases, voters “moved back years ago. It’s not like it happened just before the election. There’s something about that data that it’s just not accurate.”

Albion said:

or died before election day and were, therefore, ineligible,

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The dead voter conspiracy theory peddled by Trump voters, debunked
Late last week, Students for Trump founder Ryan Fournier declared on social media that he had unearthed definitive proof of widespread voter fraud in Detroit. He pointed to an absentee ballot cast by “118-year-old William Bradley”, a man who had supposedly died in 1984.

“They’re trying to steal the election,” Fournier warned in a since-deleted Facebook post, though the election had already been called for Joe Biden by every major news network days before.

But the deceased Bradley hadn’t voted. Within days, Bradley’s son, also named William Bradley, but with a different middle name, told PolitiFact that he had cast the ballot.

Fact check: What's true about 2020 election, vote counts, certification
Claims of dead voters
Fact check: False claim that deceased Michigan man voted in 2020

While the screenshots posted to social media are real and can be replicated, Michigan’s Secretary of State's office debunked the claim as “misinformation,” and USA TODAY found evidence to support that.

Albion said:

votes counted more than once,

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There have been numerous recounts done.In all cases they haven't found any significant counting discrepancies. The cyber ninja recount actually found that Biden won by slightly more than first thought.

You have been caught hook line and sinker in debunked conspiracy claims.

Albion said:

There is a huge amount of evidence of vote fraud in the 2020 election. Included are hundreds of sworn testimonies from eyewitnesses, some arrests, thousands of votes cast by people who had moved out of state or died before election day and were, therefore, ineligible, votes counted more than once, and numerous other illegalities. Such doings occurred in many states, hence the denial that there was not "widespread'' vote fraud is false.

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You have shown nothing of any substance. Trump lost and 80 court decisions, Congressional certification and the Supreme Court have confirmed that sour grapes are all you have. You simply cannot accept that Biden won. Period.

Albion said:

There is a huge amount of evidence of vote fraud in the 2020 election.

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Show it.

Included are hundreds of sworn testimonies from eyewitnesses, some arrests, thousands of votes cast by people who had moved out of state or died before election day and were, therefore, ineligible, votes counted more than once, and numerous other illegalities. Such doings occurred in many states, hence the denial that there was not "widespread'' vote fraud is false.

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Why oh Why did Donald hire Giuliani and not you? You are clearly a far more astute and competent legal mind than anyone on his team.

But, seeing as you are not, in fact, a potted plant, perhaps that's a given.

stevil said:

Those testimonies were meritless.
I remember the lady that Lou Dobbs brought onto his show. It was embarrassing. She was talking about a pizza truck not having enough pizza.

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Very well, then, let's dismiss that person simply on your say-so. Now I'd like to read your analyses of all the others. If that's not forthcoming, we'll know for sure that you're just blowing smoke.

Albion said:

Very well, then, let's dismiss that person simply on your say-so. Now I'd like to read your analyses of all the others. If that's not forthcoming, we'll know for sure that you're just blowing smoke.

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Literally dozens of judges in courtrooms across the country have already dismissed such "testimonies" on their (lack of) merits -- why reinvent the wheel?

Albion said:

Very well, then, let's dismiss that person simply on your say-so. Now I'd like to read your analyses of all the others. If that's not forthcoming, we'll know for sure that you're just blowing smoke.

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Let’s talk about GA. Do you think there was widespread fraud in GA?

stevil said:

Are there any in particular that you find really compelling that you would like me to address?

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No, I'm just impressed that you have evaluated all the hundreds of statements made by eyewitnesses to what appear to be cases of vote fraud, and I'd therefore be interested in you revealing your insights about them rather than making some dismissive comments about one witness as though that proves anything.

Frankly, I have to put it into the same drawer as the many table-pounding assertions made here and elsewhere by people who say, flatly, "no fraud, no witnesses, no evidence, no nothing, don't want to hear it."

Albion said:

Frankly, I have to put it into the same drawer as the many table-pounding assertions made here and elsewhere by people who say, flatly, "no fraud, no witnesses, no evidence, no nothing, don't want to hear it."

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We are just pointing out what the Judges declared after hearing the many cases in court.
Your statement above is pretty accurate about what the judges said expect for those last 5 words.

Myself, I've been asking you to present which testimony or testimonies are the most compelling to you.
Instead you insist I address all of them, each and every last one of these testimonies of which haven't been made public.

It was you that said there was compelling evidence. Provide a few to us so we can see examples that you have found compelling?

perplexed said:

Plenty of people on this board think the US election system is broken and many people are committing fraud but if you think that shouldn't you question all Republican victories as well as the democrat victories? There was a lot of mail in voting before covid.

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No, as there are plenty of ballots cast for just the Presidency. Look up frequency of term "undervoting"

VERIFY: Normal to have ballots marked to vote just for president | king5.com

stevil said:

We are just pointing out what the Judges declared after hearing the many cases in court.

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That's already been addressed. The cases were rejected on other grounds. Yet the people who get all their news from MSNBC continue to insist that the evidence was evaluated by the courts and was found to be unconvincing.

Albion said:

You have a point with some of that, but not the final contention. There had not been a presidential election before in our history in which the most basic rules for voting were so extensively set aside as this one, and in which so much fraud was documented.

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Look at the long game. Don't focus on isolated time periods.

98cwitr said:

No, as there are plenty of ballots cast for just the Presidency. Look up frequency of term "undervoting"

VERIFY: Normal to have ballots marked to vote just for president | king5.com

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While this is true, it doesn't paint the whole picture. First, while it's "normal," it's still typically a very small percentage of ballots cast. Second, it's not particularly difficult to analyze the results and determine if there was any pattern to those ballots cast solely for President.

I'll use Pennsylvania as an example, since that's where I live and it was a hotly-contested state in 2020. There were 6,838,186 ballots cast in the Presidential race and a total of 6,819,307 ballots cast across all of the House races in the state. This means that there were, at most, ~19,000 ballots cast solely for President in Pennsylvania (assuming that everyone who skipped their House race also skipped all local races and ballot initiatives). That's 0.2% of the total votes cast.

Next, we can look at the partisan breakdown of those votes. All told, Trump received 3,378,263 votes to Biden's 3,459,923. But when you look at the House races, Republican candidates received 3,432,595 votes to 3,386,712 votes for Democratic candidates. In other words, Republican House candidates received more votes than Trump did, despite the lower total number of votes in the House races, which suggests that people just didn't like Trump.

Furthermore, if you're going to allege that people went to the effort of creating fraudulent ballots for the purpose of changing the result of the Presidential election, why wouldn't they also try to win the other branches of government. It's not like that would be any more difficult, and it would have far more impact on the political direction of the country.

Eftsoon said:

Look at the long game. Don't focus on isolated time periods.

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Sadly enough, it's both.

Albion said:

That's already been addressed. The cases were rejected on other grounds. Yet the people who get all their news from MSNBC continue to insist that the evidence was evaluated by the courts and was found to be unconvincing.

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So you do recognise that no court looking at the 60 cases presented judged that any of these cases had legal merit?

So then why do you insist there was widespread voter fraud?
Because Trump said so (wasn't he being a sore loser from losing the election?)
Because Rudy said so (he didn't even assess whether any of the claims were true or not)
Because Tucker Carlson said so (Fox news argued in court that Tucker isn't to be taken seriously)


Fact check: Courts have dismissed multiple lawsuits of alleged electoral fraud presented by Trump campaign
Following President Joe Biden’s swearing in on Jan. 20, a Facebook post shared over 6,140 times has said: “Not one court has looked at the evidence and said that Biden legally won. Not one”. This is false: state and federal judges dismissed more than 50 lawsuits presented by then President Donald Trump and his allies challenging the election or its outcome.

Independent experts, governors and state election officials from both parties say there was no evidence of widespread fraud.

According to the Washington Post here , instead of alleging “widespread fraud or election-changing conspiracy” the lawsuits pushed by Trump’s team and allies focused on smaller complaints, which were largely dismissed by judges due to a lack of evidence. “The Republicans did not provide evidence to back up their assertions — just speculation, rumors or hearsay.”

Albion said:

That's already been addressed. The cases were rejected on other grounds.

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Do you remember what they were?