"Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob"

Douggg said:

The tree is the kingdom of God. That first century generation of Jews, the kingdom of God was taken from them, to be given to a future generation of Jews who will end up turning to Jesus.

The Jews over there in Israel right now are that generation of Jews. Currently unbelievers. But will become believers in Jesus in the middle part of the 7 years in Revelation 12:10.

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This is simply never prophesied to happen.
Revelation 12:10 is about when Satan is thrown out of heaven.

After the Sixth Seal devastation of the Middle East, Zephaniah 1:14-18,..a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the Land, Zephaniah 3:1-8...they did not put their trust in the Lord.... Only a remnant of the faithful Christian Jews will survive to join with their Christian brethren, Jeremiah 50:4-5

Douggg said:

None of them proves your claim... that you made...

"Throughout Scripture, "Jacob" is a representation of the faithful obedient remnant within the unfaithful disobedient nation of Israel."
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Jacob's name was changed to Israel - why? Because he was faithful obedient servant?

No, because he struggled, wrestled with God - a perfect description of the nation of Israel.

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Every one of them proves my point.

Predictably, you've refused to answer any questions, and continue to confirm that you understand nothing of the spiritual significance of the captivities of Jacob.

Since Jacob was renamed to Israel, why does the name Jacob still appear in Scripture after he was renamed?

Do you think that Jacob should represent the unfaithful and disobedient within Israel, rather than the faithful and obedient?

When we see references in Scripture to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, should we understand those to mean the God of Abraham, Isaac, and the unfaithful and disobedient?

I don't expect answers to these questions either.

Douggg said:

Well, in Ezekiel 39, it was to show that it was not only the ten tribes would be brought back from captivity - but all of Israel.

Following Solomon's reign, when Israel split into two kingdoms, the northern ten tribes retain the name of Israel, while the southern two tribes were the kingdom Judah.

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And Jacob was, and is, still Jacob.

Douggg said:

Satan who accuses Israel every day of have rejected Jesus.

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The difference between the true Israel and Judah, the fake Israel, has been explained here many times.
As that truth is plainly seen in the New Testament teachings, it is hard to figure how any Christian thinks the OT prophesies of restoration applies to the current citizens in the holy land.

Those rejecters of Jesus are already Satan's followers. Matthew 23:31-33, Revelation 2:9 They face destruction and only the faithful Christians will occupy all the holy Land.

Douggg said:

None of them proves your claim... that you made...

"Throughout Scripture, "Jacob" is a representation of the faithful obedient remnant within the unfaithful disobedient nation of Israel."
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Jacob's name was changed to Israel - why? Because he was faithful obedient servant?

No, because he struggled, wrestled with God - a perfect description of the nation of Israel.

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Jacob means supplanter, a negative connotation. It makes me laugh when Christians comes up with doctrines like the claim that you quoted.

This topic involves Ezekiel 38 and 39. In those two chapters it shows that the house of Israel meant, they are out of their land, then brought back into their land, and when they are brought back into their land, they are dwelling safely. But then once again they are expelled from their land and brought back into their land at a later time. They are once again dwelling safely. This time while they are dwelling safely Gog and his multitude eventually decides to attack them. God then executes judgment on Gog and his multitude.

It is not until after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude that the house of Israel meant, in order so that the house of Israel shall know that He is the LORD their God from that day and forward.
And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

What is so hard to grasp about what is meant here? Does it not say I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there? Does the text then mean they get expelled from their land yet again after this time around? Does it say that in the text? Does it even hint at that in the text?

It is not until after God executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude that God will then no longer hide His face any more from them: for He has poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel. Isn't that what the reading of the text shows to be the case.

To summarize. The house of Israel meant is not in their land, then they are brought back into their land, but then they are expelled from their land yet again, then are brought back into their land one more time. This time around they never get expelled from their land ever again.

70 AD alone already debunks that all of these things have already been fulfilled since that contradicts Ezekiel 39:28.

If one refuses to agree with Ezekiel 38 and 39, that one needs to show that the house of Israel meant, that when they are back in their land when Gog and his multitude attack, that they are never expelled from their land ever again after that. Good luck showing that to be true. 70 AD alone already proves that isn't true. 70 AD involved them being expelled from their land, not remaining in it to never get expelled from it ever again instead. This obviously means, in order to fulfill the prophecies recorded in these 2 chapters, there first has to be a return to their land post 70 AD. And that when they are returned to their land this time, God is still hiding His face from them until He executes His judgment on Gog and his multitude.

jgr said:

Ezekiel is describing an OT captivity.

The faithful and obedient were among the unfaithful and disobedient taken captive.

They were God's servants to re-evangelize the captives.

Upon their repentance and return to God, they were returned to their homeland.

Repentance preceded return in all OT cases.

1948 does not satisfy those spiritual conditions.



There is not one supporting Scripture in which enemies of the gospel are identified as the election.

Not one.

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Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

Apparently, you do not agree with this verse. Apparently, you think this verse means they get expelled from their land yet again once this is fulfilled. 70 AD contradicts that verse if that verse is meaning before 70 AD rather than after 70 AD.

Bob_1000 said:

I don't understand your argument, Ezekiel 39:29 says it happened when God poured out the spirit of grace on the house of Israel. Do you think that hasn't happened yet?

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One thing we know is that it involves the latter days. Pretty much everyone agrees with the NT when it indicates the latter days began with the first coming of Christ. The text indicates that He pours His Spirit out on the house of Israel meant, after His judgment involving Gog and his multitude. What during the past 2000 years could possibly explain His judgment involving Gog and his multitude?

Please don't tell me something silly, such as 70 AD explains it. As if the Romans consisted of a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

Keep in mind, this involves the latter days and that we have been in the latter days since the first century and are still in the latter days yet today.

Ezekiel 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

DavidPT said:

Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

Apparently, you do not agree with this verse. Apparently, you think this verse means they get expelled from their land yet again once this is fulfilled. 70 AD contradicts that verse if that verse is meaning before 70 AD rather than after 70 AD.

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Ezekiel wrote while in exile during the Babylonian captivity. Apparently you think that God left Israel there and never repatriated them.

You're getting tripped up by the translators' renderings of tenses, which are at the translators' discretion, because there are no tenses in ancient Hebrew.

Ezekiel 39:28 was fulfilled in the repatriation of Israel from Babylon, notwithstanding the mixed tenses in which the verse is rendered.

Guojing said:

Jacob means supplanter, a negative connotation. It makes me laugh when Christians comes up with doctrines like the claim that you quoted.

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You should stop laughing, because throughout the entirety of Holy-Spirit-inspired-Scripture, God is referred to as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The Holy Spirit, and the Christians who believe Him, have the last laugh.

Douggg said:

keras, since you don't believe that Israel over there right now is not the fulfillment of bible prophecy, what bible verses are you using of a "fake" Israel coming out of the nations back into the land in the latter days?

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The nation of mixed race peoples currently in the Jewish State of Israel, belong to the synagogue of Satan.
Over 20 prophesies say they will be destroyed and only a remnant will survive. Jesus prophesied it in Matthew 21:18, and Isaiah 6:11-13, +
They will be uprooted, along with their evil neighbors. Jeremiah 12:14

This is what the Bible prophets plainly say and any idea of their future redemption is wrong and made only to suit the false theory of the Church going to heaven.

jgr said:

Ezekiel wrote while in exile during the Babylonian captivity. Apparently you think that God left Israel there and never repatriated them.

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The House of Israel remains in exile now.
It was the House of Judah, who were taken to Babylon and who are now, mostly symbolically, the peoples in a small part of the holy Land.

It is we Christians who represent the whole House of Israel today.

keras said:

The nation of mixed race peoples currently in the Jewish State of Israel, belong to the synagogue of Satan.
Over 20 prophesies say they will be destroyed and only a remnant will survive. Jesus prophesied it in Matthew 21:18, and Isaiah 6:11-13, +
They will be uprooted, along with their evil neighbors. Jeremiah 12:14

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If they are destroyed then explain how they fulfill the part I have underlined in the verse below. Jesus is the speaker in that verse. Jesus is saying what He will make them do. Explain how Jesus is wrong and that you are correct instead.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Does not this verse say Jesus will make them, the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, to come and worship before thy feet? How can anyone that is destroyed possibly fulfill that?

jgr said:

Ezekiel wrote while in exile during the Babylonian captivity. Apparently you think that God left Israel there and never repatriated them.

You're getting tripped up by the translators' renderings of tenses, which are at the translators' discretion, because there are no tenses in ancient Hebrew.

Ezekiel 39:28 was fulfilled in the repatriation of Israel from Babylon, notwithstanding the mixed tenses in which the verse is rendered.

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Do you then disagree with the NT that the latter days began in the first century with the first coming of Christ? Does not Ezekiel 38 make it crystal clear that this involves the latter days?

DavidPT said:

If they are destroyed then explain how they fulfill the part I have underlined in the verse below. Jesus is the speaker in that verse. Jesus is saying what He will make them do. Explain how Jesus is wrong and that you are correct instead.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Does not this verse say Jesus will make them, the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, to come and worship before thy feet? How can anyone that is destroyed possibly fulfill that?

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I have always said that a remnant will survive. They must be 24,000 to make up their number of the 144,000. [Judah and Benjamin]
Plus many other Christian Jews.

What is plainly obvious, is that the Jews face imminent Judgment now. God has given them nearly 2000 years to accept Jesus, but Bible prophecy is clear; they never will.

DavidPT said:

Do you then disagree with the NT that the latter days began in the first century with the first coming of Christ? Does not Ezekiel 38 make it crystal clear that this involves the latter days?

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I thought we were discussing Ezekiel 39:28.