Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

Andrewn said:

Excellent examples.

The word "hades" in the Bible refers to a "spirit prison" as stated in 1Pe 3:19. This is not the modern meaning of the word "hell." The 2 concepts might have been equivalent in Norse mythology and when KJV was translated. But they no longer mean the same thing and should not be used interchangeably. You gave good examples of the modern usage of "hell."

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Your post reminded me of this.
Note: a proclamation is to announce something already in effect.

Luke 4:18-19 NIV
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Andrewn said:

Excellent examples.

The word "hades" in the Bible refers to a "spirit prison" as stated in 1Pe 3:19. This is not the modern meaning of the word "hell." The 2 concepts might have been equivalent in Norse mythology and when KJV was translated. But they no longer mean the same thing and should not be used interchangeably. You gave good examples of the modern usage of "hell."

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The Aramaic Bible has "Sheol" for 1 Peter 3:19 too. "And he preached to those souls who were held in Sheol,".

Saint Steven said:

Your post reminded me of this.
Note: a proclamation is to announce something already in effect.

Luke 4:18-19 NIV
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

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That's Jesus quoting Isaiah 61:1.

Saint Steven said:

Oh, my. The term "exciting cricket" is a new one for me. What does it mean? Sounds like a thrilling sporting event. (probably not)

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Don't be ridiculous, what kind of sporting event would crickets play? "Dodge the shoe"?

Saint Steven said:

Oh, my. The term "exciting cricket" is a new one for me. What does it mean? Sounds like a thrilling sporting event. (probably not)

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On this side of the Pond, we might refer to "exciting golf." I think that is an oxymoron.

Lazarus Short said:

More misdirection. The word study I mentioned was carried out by ME in a KJV using a Strong's Concordance to find words relating to "fire." I don't care to look back to see how it changes anything you posted, especially when you call it a "word study" with quotation marks as if you don't think it is genuine.

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The Strong's that is in public domain has been found to have about 15,000 errors or omissions.

Der Alte said:

Strong’s Concordance is not a translation of the Bible nor is it intended as a translation tool. The use of Strong's numbers is not a substitute for professional translation of the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English by those with formal training in ancient languages and the literature of the cultures in which the Bible was written.
Since Strong’s Concordance identifies the original words in Hebrew and Greek.. Strong's Number s are sometimes misinterpreted by those without adequate training to change the Bible from its accurate meaning simply by taking the words out of cultural context. The use of Strong's numbers does not consider figures of speech. metaphors, idioms, common phrases, cultural references. references to historical events, or alternate meanings used by those of the time period to express their thoughts in their own language at the time. As such, professionals and amateurs alike must consult a number of contextual tools to reconstruct these cultural backgrounds. Many scholarly Greek and Hebrew Lexicons (e.g., Brown-Driver Briggs Hebrew Lexicon. Thayer's Greek Dictionary and Vine's Bible Dictionary) also use Strong’s numbers for cross-referencing, encouraging hermeneutical approaches to study.
Strong's Concordance​

The Strong's that is in public domain has been found to have about 15,000 errors or omissions.

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Sorry, I don't find your reply useful or relevant. Every word I chose to look up yielded a list of verses containing it, but I used very few of the verses, as most had no bearing on the subject. I used my critical faculties, you see, and in my manuscript, btw, I don't talk down to my readers.

Andrewn said:

Excellent examples.
The word "hades" in the Bible refers to a "spirit prison" as stated in 1Pe 3:19. This is not the modern meaning of the word "hell." The 2 concepts might have been equivalent in Norse mythology and when KJV was translated. But they no longer mean the same thing and should not be used interchangeably. You gave good examples of the modern usage of "hell."

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1 Pet 3:19 does not refer to "hades" as a spirit prison.
"Hades"/the grave is never directly called "prison" in any verse in the Bible. "Prison" is never directly called "hades"/the grave anywhere in the Bible.
If the preaching to the spirits was for the purpose of salvation then it was a monumental failure. Only 8 people, Noah and his family, were saved and they were not dead spirits in "hades" or the grave but alive on earth.

Lazarus Short said:

* * * btw, I don't talk down to my readers.

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How is my post talking down to you? I merely quoted some pertinent facts about Strong's.

Der Alte said:

Strong’s Concordance is not a translation of the Bible nor is it intended as a translation tool. The use of Strong's numbers is not a substitute for professional translation of the Bible from Hebrew and Greek into English by those with formal training in ancient languages and the literature of the cultures in which the Bible was written.
Since Strong’s Concordance identifies the original words in Hebrew and Greek.. Strong's Number s are sometimes misinterpreted by those without adequate training to change the Bible from its accurate meaning simply by taking the words out of cultural context. The use of Strong's numbers does not consider figures of speech. metaphors, idioms, common phrases, cultural references. references to historical events, or alternate meanings used by those of the time period to express their thoughts in their own language at the time. As such, professionals and amateurs alike must consult a number of contextual tools to reconstruct these cultural backgrounds. Many scholarly Greek and Hebrew Lexicons (e.g., Brown-Driver Briggs Hebrew Lexicon. Thayer's Greek Dictionary and Vine's Bible Dictionary) also use Strong’s numbers for cross-referencing, encouraging hermeneutical approaches to study.
Strong's Concordance​

The Strong's that is in public domain has been found to have about 15,000 errors or omissions.

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So what qualifies you being able to say other members aren't translating Hebrew and Greek correctly?

Der Alte said:

How is my post talking down to you? I merely quoted some pertinent facts about Strong's.

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Bro, overall you talk down to the "hell no crowd" all the time, as if you think they're complete idiots.

MMXX said:

So what qualifies you being able to say other members aren't translating Hebrew and Greek correctly?

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He said he used Strong's to make his decisions about the Biblical words. The statement I quoted said that Strong's was not intended for nor should it be used for "translation" purposes. That is not the purpose of a concordance.
Strong's will show every verse where significant words occur and how they are translated in the KJV. I am referring to the original Strong's which is the edition which is out of copy right and available online. There is a revised addition, "The Strongest Strong's" but it is in copyright and must be purchased if one wants to use it.
FYI correct translation does not consist of merely looking at a list of how a word is translated in the KJV then eeny, meeny, mine mo randomly picking one out of that list.

MMXX said:

Why is the idea of everything/everyone being restored by God to His original design and plan, so upsetting?

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It is not upsetting to me in any way.

It is simply not Biblical!

Lazarus Short said:

Is that a joke? I traced "hell" back to Norse mythology, where it was "Helheim" or "House of Hel," as they supposed Hel to be the goddes or ogress of her House. Now, centuries later, we have added one "l" and make it Christian orthodoxy.

Hel = pagan

Hell = Christian

I checked it out, and failed to find the "Christian hell" - what's not to like?

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In the Old Testament, the word which indicated Hell, and that is sheol. It appears originally to have been the Hebrews’ version of the Sumerian and Babylonian Irkalla, or Netherworld, also referred to more poetically as “the House of Dust and Darkness.” For all the dead — good, bad, in-between — this was an unpleasant place, one where souls were left to dine only on dust and live in an unrelenting haze of ash.

Saint Steven said:

I don't have a problem with that, do you?
How would you benefit if Satan was not restored?
Remember, revenge is a sin. (Romans 12:19)

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YES.

Everyone I know would have a problem with Satan being saved.

Revenge has nothing to do with it.

Your position show just how far you are from the understanding of Gods word!

First of all, Satan is completely fallen and is given over to evil. There is no room in his heart for repentance.

Second, since SIN must be atoned for and angels have no atoning sacrifice. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross is for people, not for angels. What is important to understand is that in the one person of Jesus are two natures, God and man. As God the Son, Jesus can offer a sacrifice that can appease God the Father. As a man, he can offer a sacrifice on behalf of men. This is why we are able to be saved. The atonement of Christ is offered on our behalf.

Therefore, even if Satan were to repent of his great sins, (which it is not possible) he must have an atonement that would be sufficient for angels. Since Jesus became a man to die for men, there would have to be some sort of corresponding angelic manifestation on behalf of the Divine Word becoming angelic. This is not taught in Scripture and does not seem to be possible.

Our sins are against God. Our sins have offended God and we need a way to undo the offense. We need to have a way to make amends. Biblically, this is done through atonement, where a death is involved (Leviticus 17:11; Hebrews 9:22) to undo the death that is due us. God tells us that the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and that sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2).

For us, the atonement is the offering of Jesus on the cross (1 Peter 2:24).

However, there is no atonement for the angelic realm.

Heb. 2.16-17........
“For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. 17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”

Saint Steven said:

That is an insulting and demeaning opinion.
Why do you suppose YOUR opinion is superior to anyone else's?

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My posts are all validated by the Scriptures.

Blame God if you are convicted.

Hmm said:

That is the question. I wish someone from Team Hell would tell us.

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WHY?

You would argue it and reject it so what would be the point?

MMXX said:

Explaining something isn't the same thing as promoting it.



I don't have a personal belief about that. I could explain what the belief regarding that is, but then based on your pattern you would come to the wrong conclusion and make the false accusation that's what I personally believe and am teaching.

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You may not have a Personal belief in it but the theology you promote, and you are promoting not explaining......in fact does teach that very thing and your partner Steve even agrees with it!

You say you are "explaining" Universalism. In Alabama my grandpa always told me that is it quakes like a duck, and swims like a duck and walks like a duck...........Then IT IS A DUCK!

MMXX said:

The Aramaic Bible has "Sheol" for 1 Peter 3:19 too. "And he preached to those souls who were held in Sheol,".

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Old Testament. The Hebrew word seol [l/a.v], "Sheol, " refers to the grave or the abode of the dead ( Psalms 88:3 Psalms 88:5 ). Through much of the Old Testament period, it was believed that all went one place, whether human or animal ( Psalms 49:12 Psalms 49:14 Psalms 49:20 ), whether righteous or wicked ( Eccl 9:2-3 ). No one could avoid Sheol ( Psalm 49:9 ; 89:48 ), which was thought to be down in the lowest parts of the earth ( Deut 32:22 ; 1 Sam 28:11-15 ; Job 26:5 ; Psalm 86:13 ; Isa 7:11 ; Ezekiel 31:14-16 Ezekiel 31:18 ).

Unlike this world, Sheol is devoid of love, hate, envy, work, thought, knowledge, and wisdom ( Ecclesiastes 9:6 Ecclesiastes 9:10 ). Descriptions are bleak: There is no light ( Job 10:21-22 ; 17:13 ; Psalms 88:6 Psalms 88:12 ; 143:3 ), no remembrance ( Psalm 6:5 ; 88:12 ; Eccl 9:5 ), no praise of God ( Psalm 6:5 ; 30:9 ; 88:10-12 ; 115:17 ; Isa 38:18 ) — in fact, no sound at all ( Psalm 94:17 ; 115:17 ). Its inhabitants are weak, trembling shades ( Job 26:5 ; Psalm 88:10-12 ; Isa 14:9-10 ) who can never hope to escape from its gates ( Job 10:21 ; 17:13-16 ; Isa 38:10 ). Sheol is like a ravenous beast that swallows the living without being sated ( Prov 1:12 ; 27:20 ; Isa 5:14 ).
(What is Sheol and Where is it? Bible Meaning and Definition) (biblestudytools.com)