"Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob"

Hi the literal sense holds up to a constant check list and the prophecy of Jesus mission clearly in Luke 1 is to keep the covenant, oaths, promises and prophecies that Jesus would be a horn of deliverance and from the time of deliverance Israel shall worship and serve without fear and in holiness all the days of their lives. This is clear in Zech 14 went the LORD comes and saves as Jerusalem is being overrun and the Mt of Olives splits in two and the new river forms. This river is flowing in Eze 47 when the 12 tribes are receiving their lot in the promised land. The distinctions between Jew and Gentile continue and are evident in Isaiah 61 the day of vengeance of our God. Jesus is keeping the covenants, promises and oaths and the prophecies will be fulfilled exactly. Zech 14 shows the nations which are left must come and worship the king and keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain. This is when Jesus takes the throne of David and establishes the kingdom and is king over the whole earth but in particular is over the house of Jacob. There is an aspect of spiritual Israel I will concede but the covenant with Abraham is to the descendants of the 12 tribes.

Douggg said:

Where are you coming up with that?

Click to expand...

Where is Scripture coming up with that?

Copy/paste the first three paragraphs of post #41, then I'll answer your question.

Douggg said:

Do you know what "without repentance" in that verse means? It means that God is not going to break His promises to them.

Click to expand...

Romans 11:29 For the gracious gifts of God and His calling are irrevocable. REBible
God will keep His Promises to the Patriarchs. Their descendants will inherit the holy Land, but people must carefully consider the Biblical and genetical truths of who those descendants are.

Biblical: It is plain from all the New Testament teachings, that it is only the people who accept Jesus and keep His Commandments, who are true Israelites of God; Ephesians 2:11-18, Galatians 3:26-29, Galatians 6:14-16, Romans 9:24-26

Genetical: In the 4,000 +/- since Abraham, there have been more than 100 generations. Mathematically: this means a complete dilution of the gene pool - everybody alive today has some of Jacobs DNA.

The Jewish State of Israel; Is in no way, shape or form; the Israelites of God. Over 20 prophesies tell of their virtual demise and only a remnant will survive to join with their Christian brethren. Revelation 5:9-10, Jeremiah 50:4

Brian Mcnamee said:

There is an aspect of spiritual Israel I will concede but the covenant with Abraham is to the descendants of the 12 tribes.

Click to expand...

The covenant with Abraham is to Christ and those who are in Christ. (Galatians 3:16,28,29).

Descendants are not the children of God until in receiving Christ they become the children of the promise. (Romans 9:6-8)

Douggg said:

Jacob in Ezekiel 39 is talking about Israel, them who are not yet saved..

Click to expand...

He is talking about the saved within Israel.

Douggg said:

...Paul is speaking about the en-masse of Israel becoming Christians.

Click to expand...

He is talking about the remnant who are and will be saved. (Romans 9:27)

Douggg said:

Do you know what "without repentance" in that verse means? It means that God is not going to break His promises to them.

Click to expand...

Do you know who "them" are?

Romans 11
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Do you know who the election are?

Romans 11
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

It is to the remnant according to the election of grace that "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."

The NT election are always those in Christ, and no others.

The NT gifts and calling of God are always to those in Christ, and no others.

Douggg said:

Just as I thought - no bible verses.

Click to expand...

Just as I thought - afraid to see the Bible verses.

But here they are.

1. Psalm 14:7
   Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the Lord bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Psalm 53:6
   Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Psalm 85:1
   Lord, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. Jeremiah 30:10
   Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Jeremiah 33:26
   Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. Jeremiah 46:27
   But fear not thou, O my servant Jacob, and be not dismayed, O Israel: for, behold, I will save thee from afar off, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and be in rest and at ease, and none shall make him afraid.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. Ezekiel 39:25
   Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Douggg said:

You are not even reading the text of Ezekiel 39:23-25 and Luke 21:24.
They went into captivity because of their iniquity and their trespass against Jesus. They were not saved.

Click to expand...

Ezekiel is describing an OT captivity.

The faithful and obedient were among the unfaithful and disobedient taken captive.

They were God's servants to re-evangelize the captives.

Upon their repentance and return to God, they were returned to their homeland.

Repentance preceded return in all OT cases.

1948 does not satisfy those spiritual conditions.

Douggg said:

Yes, in that verse, Paul is talking about the Jews who are unsaved - who although enemies to the gospel for the gentiles sake - do them no harm because because they are beloved, for the sake of God's promises to them corporately.

Click to expand...

There is not one supporting Scripture in which enemies of the gospel are identified as the election.

Not one.

Douggg said:

Yes, in that verse, Paul is talking about the Jews who are unsaved - who although enemies to the gospel for the gentiles sake - do them no harm because because they are beloved, for the sake of God's promises to them corporately.

Click to expand...

In which of the following verses are enemies of the gospel identified as the elect(ion)?

1. Colossians 3:12
   Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. 1 Thessalonians 1:4
   Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. 1 Timothy 5:21
   I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. 2 Timothy 2:10
   Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Titus 1:1
   Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. 1 Peter 1:2
   Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. 1 Peter 2:6
   Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
8. 1 Peter 5:13
   The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
9. 2 Peter 1:10
   Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

That's right.

In not one of them.

Douggg said:

It is so obvious that Israel over there, becoming a nation again coming out the nations where they were scattered, in a single day, one nation, not two nations - it is incredible to me that anyone can deny it.

Click to expand...

It is so obvious that a nation of unfaithful disobedient apostate antichrists can never be a fulfillment of prophecy, that it is incredible that anyone believes that it can.

Douggg said:

Not so. Ezekiel 38 is about the 1948 generation, the latter days and latter years in Ezekiel 38:8 and Ezekiel 38:16.

Click to expand...

No OT return from any captivity occurred until genuine spiritual repentance and rehabilitation had preceded it.

How many and what percentage of those who migrated to Israel in 1948 had previously turned to Christ?

Douggg said:

Romans 11
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Click to expand...

Why have you ignored the nine verses in post #53 describing who the elect(ion) are?

Douggg said:

None of those prove your point.

Click to expand...

Every one of them proves my point.

I certainly don't expect you to understand the spiritual significance of the return of Jacob from each captivity following years of spiritual rehabilitation and restoration while in exile; and the rejoicing and reassurances described in the foregoing verses which accompanied each return.

Such understanding resides only in those possessing spiritual discernment.

Douggg said:

Yes, your statement represents the kind of negative attitude against the Jews that Paul talked about, don't do.

Click to expand...

I have not the slightest problem with a negative attitude toward antichristian rebellion, apostasy, unfaithfulness, and disobedience.

I'll leave it to you to excuse and defend them.

Seems that Paul's attitude was even more negative than mine.

1 Thessalonians 2

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Douggg said:

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Not grafted in - but "grafted in again". So they were part of the original tree, but were broken off. And went into captivity.

Click to expand...

Right, that's what I was saying. Did you read all of my post? I'm saying that Paul hoped to help save some of his fellow Israelites who were part of the original tree (Romans 11:14) and were cut off so that they could be grafted in AGAIN. It's about individuals being grafted in because of faith. You think of it as speaking of a corporate grafting in but that is not at all what Paul was talking about.

Each individual branch that was cut off was cut off because of unbelief. The remnant of individuals who believed were not cut off. And then individual Gentile believers who put their faith in Christ were grafted in as well and Paul warned them that if any of them did not keep their faith, they too would be cut off.

The question in the opening post and title to this thread is who is Jacob, that fits the rest of Ezekiel 39?


Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

_____________________________________________________

Israel, the Jews over there right now are Jacob, brought back into the land from captivity. For the most part they are not Christians.

But they will become Christians to be grafted in again from the time they were broken off to go into captivity.

Click to expand...

You are taking Romans 11 completely out of context. These unbelieving Jews who you think will become Christians in the future were not grafted in to the tree in the first place since they have never believed in Christ! So, how can they be grafted in again? You always take everything out of context.

Douggg said:

Jacob in Ezekiel 39 is talking about Israel, them who are not yet saved..

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

...Paul is speaking about the en-masse of Israel becoming Christians.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Do you know what "without repentance" in that verse means? It means that God is not going to break His promises to them.

Click to expand...

God hasn't broken His promise. He has provided the opportunity for all of them to be saved for a long time now. Do you think that God hasn't wanted them all to be saved for the past almost 2,000 years even though scripture teaches that God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-4)?

Paul never spoke about "the en-masse of Israel becoming Christians". He talked about a remnant of Israelite Christians in his day (Romans 11:5) and that he hoped to "help save some" of those who had been cut off because of unbelief.

Romans 11:13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

Paul was realistic. He knew it wasn't realistic to think all of them would be saved but he hoped that some of them would be. And I'm sure some of them were saved just as he hoped and many of them have been saved since then.