Which comes first repentance or forgiveness?

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
THANKYOU!
Yes, it is our choice to believe in Jesus.
Calvinism teaches God chooses who will believe and who will not believe.

We have no choice in the matter.

Did you know some will be lost even though they believe Jesus raised from the dead.

Here's the evidence,
John 12:42-43
Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;

For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

These Jews knew their Messiah was Jesus. They knew He raised from the dead.

But because they loved their positions of power more than God, they loved men more than God.

Their faith in Jesus could not save them.

God requires more than faith alone to save us.



It is our choice to believe in Jesus as much as it is our choice not to believe in riches, which is not choice as far as people following the root of all evil would see.


The ones who loved men's praise more than God, is again showing why men reject God to themselves, as they choose something greater than God, to themselves.
 
Upvote 0

New Testament Christian

Active Member
Sep 10, 2021
356
12
Columbus
✟4,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It is our choice to believe in Jesus as much as it is our choice not to believe in riches, which is not choice as far as people following the root of all evil would see.


The ones who loved men's praise more than God, is again showing why men reject God to themselves, as they choose something greater than God, to themselves.

So do you agree with me that salvation does not come by faith alone?
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Here's the evidence,
John 12:42-43
Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;

For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

These Jews knew their Messiah was Jesus. They knew He raised from the dead.

But because they loved their positions of power more than God, they loved men more than God.

Their faith in Jesus could not save them.

God requires more than faith alone to save us.





They questioned (doubted) if that was the Messiah


John 7:26 But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ?
27 Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.
 
Upvote 0

New Testament Christian

Active Member
Sep 10, 2021
356
12
Columbus
✟4,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
They questioned (doubted) if that was the Messiah


John 7:26 But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ?
27 Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.

Not in John 12:42.
They did not doubt. These rulers believed in Jesus.
That is what the passage says.
Do you doubt they did not believe in John 12:42?
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
So do you agree with me that salvation does not come by faith alone?


Sure, it comes by Christ in us, the hope of glory, which is meekness in us, and that is the love of Christ, that lays His life down for His friends..

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

John 8:50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Not in John 12:42.
They did not doubt. These rulers believed in Jesus.
That is what the passage says.
Do you doubt they did not believe in John 12:42?


They believed until they were pushed..



Psalm 106:12 Then believed they his words; they sang his praise.
13 They soon forgat his works; they waited not for his counsel:
14 But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert.
15 And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.


John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
 
Upvote 0

New Testament Christian

Active Member
Sep 10, 2021
356
12
Columbus
✟4,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Sure, it comes by Christ in us, the hope of glory, which is meekness in us, and that is the love of Christ, that lays His life down for His friends..

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

John 8:50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

1 Corinthians 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Philippians 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.


Good points,

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Do you believe we must obey all of Jesus' commandments in His gospel to be saved?
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
They preferred men to God, and as all the verses today showed us, men prefer their lives to God, and they have a form of Godliness, and that is what stops therm from knowing God sincerely.



John 5:41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

New Testament Christian

Active Member
Sep 10, 2021
356
12
Columbus
✟4,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
They believed until they were pushed..



Psalm 106:12 Then believed they his words; they sang his praise.
13 They soon forgat his works; they waited not for his counsel:
14 But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert.
15 And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.


John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Ok, so are you saying they did not believe in Johm 12:42?

Because that scripture says they did Sir.

But they would not OBEY Jesus for they would not confess Him, Romans 10:9-10
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
They believed in Jesus, John 12:42

Yet they would not confess Him Romans 10:9-10




Even if they confess, it is swearing falsely by these evils..



Jeremiah 5:2 And though they say, The Lord liveth; surely they swear falsely

Jeremiah 7:8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit.
9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?

11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Only that one command?

What about Romans 10:9-10?



Do you base your belief on all verses or one..



Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
With the righteous believing heart they do no unrighteousness ( or hardly believe in righteousness)


1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

New Testament Christian

Active Member
Sep 10, 2021
356
12
Columbus
✟4,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
More Jews that believed but would not obey Jesus because they Hated Him,

John 8:31
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, if you abide in My word you are My disciples indeed.

They were believers but would not obey His teachings.
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
More Jews that believed but would not obey Jesus because they Hated Him,

John 8:31
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, if you abide in My word you are My disciples indeed.

They were believers but would not obey His teachings.


Hated because of their father the devil..


John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
Upvote 0

Faithful777

Active Member
Nov 16, 2021
279
31
49
Recife
✟1,680.00
Country
Brazil
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It seems you did not read all the verses I posted, or would not resend what I had sent.


Any more questions/points, because so far, God calls the meek and the rich send themselves empty away..


Luke 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.


Job 21:14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.

Psalm 73:11 And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

New Testament Christian

Active Member
Sep 10, 2021
356
12
Columbus
✟4,187.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Hated because of their father the devil..


John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Exactly Sir!
You can believe in Jesus and hate him at the same time!

Surely their faith is not the faith that can save.

So the only kind of faith that saves mankind is an obedient faith, Hebrews 5:8-9

Do you agree?
 
Upvote 0